TV trouble

[Avernus]

If you're messing with the settings without calibrating to both color bars and sliding grey scales you're just attempting to make it look correct to your eye.

 

And I would find it VERY difficult to believe Best Buy allows you to do that, much less have a color bar signal (using the blue feature/glasses as well for saturation which seems to be your point) or sliding grey for that matter available for customers to use. If that's the case you have a VERY unique store on your hands.

 

We'll agree to disagree but I don't think you're doing the above, you're just trying to make something "look" right with the remote to your own eye. That is the wrong way to go about it.

 

oh and I never said I went to Best Buy....I went to Sears..

 

you're talking to me as if I am just fiddling around without knowing what I am doing...

[Pope Flick]

oh and I never said I went to Best Buy....I went to Sears..

 

you're talking to me as if I am just fiddling around without knowing what I am doing...

 

 

Well, I think you're giving poor advice with your half explained, semi cryptic sentence structure. And I have a hard time believing any retail outlets would allow you to run bars to multiple units and calibrate them yourself.

 

But as I said earlier, if you have a store that allows you to do that that's great for you.

[Avernus]

Well, I think you're giving poor advice with your half explained, semi cryptic sentence structure. And I have a hard time believing any retail outlets would allow you to run bars to multiple units and calibrate them yourself.

 

But as I said earlier, if you have a store that allows you to do that that's great for you.

 

now you're attacking my sentence structure?...talk about grasping at straws...

 

I've typed like this forever and you didn't get anything twisted when I had anything positive to say about Samsung...

 

people mess with the TV sets all the time in the stores - are they going to tell me I can't mess with the settings on a TV I am looking to buy?...

 

and you might THINK I'm giving poor advice, but the fact is that I'm giving my opinion...I don't trust samsung and I managed to buy into that brand, but I have wised up (for a 2nd time) on the brand...

 

I have problems with the 1.5" flat paneled LED's and I don't like the how they crank up the display - naturally - on top of them historically making products that do not last and you'll bring up how well they've done this year, but you won't know the verdict until another 4 years from now....

 

Samsung might be the most overrated brand out there right now....you can disagree, but we can leave it at that...

[Pope Flick]

Look - I'm just saying I have a hard time following some of what you're saying and I know what you're talking about. This is a big purchase for a lot of people and I'd like to see the best possible info available here - that's what makes the tailgate a good place IMO. In the end my advice is "buy the TV whose picture YOU like the most." And I also stick with the 3 S's. That being said, my mom and stepfather love their Dynex. Good on them.

 

And as I said more than a few posts ago we can agree to disagree and there's no problem with that.

 

But as for "messing with their sets" I'm still impressed they'll let you bring a color bar Blu Ray DVD into the store and connect it to multiple sets at once through an HD switcher.

[Avernus]

Look - I'm just saying I have a hard time following some of what you're saying and I know what you're talking about. This is a big purchase for a lot of people and I'd like to see the best possible info available here - that's what makes the tailgate a good place IMO. In the end my advice is "buy the TV whose picture YOU like the most." And I also stick with the 3 S's. That being said, my mom and stepfather love their Dynex. Good on them.

 

And as I said more than a few posts ago we can agree to disagree and there's no problem with that.

 

But as for "messing with their sets" I'm still impressed they'll let you bring a color bar Blu Ray DVD into the store and connect it to multiple sets at once through an HD switcher.

 

 

oh no, I don't bring the disc....I just know how the settings should look - even on the latest set I purchased, I calibrated it without the disc and was PRETTY MUCH spot on based off me taking the time to double check it a few months later...I just did a quick adjustment because I wanted to use the TV immediately...

 

also they don't have a BD player on more than 5 HD sets from what I saw and none of the ones I looked at had a player on those displays....

[MrTed46]

I will be VERY impressed if you can calibrate using just your eye...I paid a TOP NOTCH calibrator tocome to my house to calibrate my set and he took about 1hr 15minutes to finish and he was NOT using just his eye. I don't know how accurately you can calibrate using just your eye in a store like Sears or Bestbuy. Calibrations should be done in their final resting enviroment anyways.

 

As someone posted up above, the best PQ (IMO I guess) is the Pioneer Elite Kuros, which you probably can't find anymore.

 

ETA: I also do not like using those calibration discs, as they do a decent job but nothing beats a pro calibration. YES, I did compare before and after with multiple people and they were all doen as blind tests (except me of course).

Edited January 20, 2010 by MrTed46

[Pope Flick]

I will be VERY impressed if you can calibrate using just your eye...I paid a TOP NOTCH calibrator tocome to my house to calibrate my set and he took about 1hr 15minutes to finish and he was NOT using just his eye. I don't know how accurately you can calibrate using just your eye in a store like Sears or Bestbuy. Calibrations should be done in their final resting enviroment anyways.

 

As someone posted up above, the best PQ (IMO I guess) is the Pioneer Elite Kuros, which you probably can't find anymore.

 

ETA: I also do not like using those calibration discs, as they do a decent job but nothing beats a pro calibration. YES, I did compare before and after with multiple people and they were all doen as blind tests (except me of course).

 

 

Ted right here is spot on. You simply cannot "know how the settings should look" in anything more than a superficial way. Believe me, I know and have been a part of corporate purchases that were preceded by professional calibrations using at least a half dozen tests. It was during those tests that the Pioneer Elite was so far ahead of the other brands that day (I recall a Sony, JVC, & LG) even the other sales people were watching the Pioneer in the end. And Pioneer's sales people couldn't make it that day - and they got the account.

[westvirginia]

Ted right here is spot on. You simply cannot "know how the settings should look" in anything more than a superficial way. Believe me, I know and have been a part of corporate purchases that were preceded by professional calibrations using at least a half dozen tests. It was during those tests that the Pioneer Elite was so far ahead of the other brands that day (I recall a Sony, JVC, & LG) even the other sales people were watching the Pioneer in the end. And Pioneer's sales people couldn't make it that day - and they got the account.

 

So it's worth it to have someone come and calibrate? How does one find one of these individuals?

[MrTed46]

So it's worth it to have someone come and calibrate? How does one find one of these individuals?

 

It depends. Some argue the "don't fix what isn't broke," but then I will counter, "you don't know it's broken until you fixed it."

 

Some sets are better to calibrate then others are for sure (example, the sets that have more options of PQ adjustments). What set would you want to calibrate?

[Pope Flick]

So it's worth it to have someone come and calibrate? How does one find one of these individuals?

 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure if it'd be worth the coin. To do a down and dirty one if you can burn a set of color bars onto a DVD and make it a DIY project. To get as close as possible you'd need to check if your set has a 'blue feature' wich is how you set and balance color saturation. You should be able to find color bar pngs or bmps on the net. If you have a home editing program and DVD burning capability you can pull it down, turn the pngs into a video stream and burn it to a DVD. You do that, you might get it closer to how it's supposed to appear while saving yourself $150-200 which is what I think geek squad charges (I might be wrong).

 

Or do a search on your TV model with calibration as an additional keyword and you might find a forum post where someone has done it themselves and posted all the settings they arrived at. There are certainly tweaks from unit to unit, even the same ones off the assembly line. My advice is to probably leave well enough alone unless something's really bothering you.

 

Here's a decent place to start:

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DN%26um%3D1

 

It's a bit trickier than old school TV. And as I said in an earlier post, crushing blacks is what you want to be concerned with because shadow detail is usually the first to go in an off kilter set.

[twiley]

Or do a search on your TV model with calibration as an additional keyword and you might find a forum post where someone has done it themselves and posted all the settings they arrived at.

This is pretty much what I do. The avsforum usually has a least a few posts about calibration settings for each model.

[westvirginia]

It depends. Some argue the "don't fix what isn't broke," but then I will counter, "you don't know it's broken until you fixed it."

 

Some sets are better to calibrate then others are for sure (example, the sets that have more options of PQ adjustments). What set would you want to calibrate?

 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure if it'd be worth the coin. To do a down and dirty one if you can burn a set of color bars onto a DVD and make it a DIY project. To get as close as possible you'd need to check if your set has a 'blue feature' wich is how you set and balance color saturation. You should be able to find color bar pngs or bmps on the net. If you have a home editing program and DVD burning capability you can pull it down, turn the pngs into a video stream and burn it to a DVD. You do that, you might get it closer to how it's supposed to appear while saving yourself $150-200 which is what I think geek squad charges (I might be wrong).

 

Or do a search on your TV model with calibration as an additional keyword and you might find a forum post where someone has done it themselves and posted all the settings they arrived at. There are certainly tweaks from unit to unit, even the same ones off the assembly line. My advice is to probably leave well enough alone unless something's really bothering you.

 

Here's a decent place to start:

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DN%26um%3D1

 

It's a bit trickier than old school TV. And as I said in an earlier post, crushing blacks is what you want to be concerned with because shadow detail is usually the first to go in an off kilter set.

 

It's a Samsung s3 something. 32" LCD. And I'm extremely happy with it for sports, movies, etc, so you're advice seems to be just leave it if I'm happy?

[MrTed46]

It's a Samsung s3 something. 32" LCD. And I'm extremely happy with it for sports, movies, etc, so you're advice seems to be just leave it if I'm happy?

 

IMO I would not have anything under 52" calibrated professionaly. I would either do it yourself using a disc (AVIA for example, which you can get from netflix) or as posted above, search AVSForums and get what the "norm" is.

[westvirginia]

Kewl - thanks guys!

[Avernus]

It's a Samsung s3 something. 32" LCD. And I'm extremely happy with it for sports, movies, etc, so you're advice seems to be just leave it if I'm happy?

 

 

the smaller models are fine....I'm talking 40" and up.....

[Avernus]

I will be VERY impressed if you can calibrate using just your eye...I paid a TOP NOTCH calibrator tocome to my house to calibrate my set and he took about 1hr 15minutes to finish and he was NOT using just his eye. I don't know how accurately you can calibrate using just your eye in a store like Sears or Bestbuy. Calibrations should be done in their final resting enviroment anyways.

 

As someone posted up above, the best PQ (IMO I guess) is the Pioneer Elite Kuros, which you probably can't find anymore.

 

ETA: I also do not like using those calibration discs, as they do a decent job but nothing beats a pro calibration. YES, I did compare before and after with multiple people and they were all doen as blind tests (except me of course).

 

 

I've calibrated quite a few sets and we're talking a 46" model....if you mess with TV's enough, you kinda know where to modify and then adjust according to what you see...

 

and again, I don't get it spot on, but it's pretty damn near it...

[Avernus]

Ted right here is spot on. You simply cannot "know how the settings should look" in anything more than a superficial way. Believe me, I know and have been a part of corporate purchases that were preceded by professional calibrations using at least a half dozen tests. It was during those tests that the Pioneer Elite was so far ahead of the other brands that day (I recall a Sony, JVC, & LG) even the other sales people were watching the Pioneer in the end. And Pioneer's sales people couldn't make it that day - and they got the account.

 

you're talking about a Pioneer Elite here....when you spend that much on a set, you better have a professional calibrate it...

 

I'm talking about a the 46" Sony and Samsung models....one was the Sony W5100 series the others were the Samsung 630 and 650 series...

 

the only difference between the two Samsung models is the 650 has a slightly higher contrast ratio and also hooks up to the internet via ethernet jack - that is a waste of money for me considering I will never use my TV to browse the internet as long as I have a PS3 hooked up to it...

 

but both samsung models had a fakeness to them compared to the Sony no matter how much I tweaked it and don't even bother cranking up the 120hz in the picture settings as it makes the motion look unnatural - as if you had the Tv on fast forward that isn't quite at 1.5 speed, but definitely isn't normal speed...

 

when I tweaked the Sony model (I did this during the wildcard playoff games and they had the games on TV) the grass looked like real grass and not like CGI or as if it were spray painted on the screen like the samsung models did...but other people around me loved the picture on the samsung...

 

all in all - the Samsung models are overrated this year IMO and I don't like the Sony models either as the failure rate is very high (:deadhorse: unless you have an XBR)....

 

I will wait until around March-May to get my new set and deal with the dead pixels on my current set until then...

Edited January 20, 2010 by Avernus

[wildcat2334]

IMO I would not have anything under 52" calibrated professionaly. I would either do it yourself using a disc (AVIA for example, which you can get from netflix) or as posted above, search AVSForums and get what the "norm" is.

 

 

good info, my Pioneer is now, chit 2 years old, wow - anyway, AVS forums were spot on in their calibration recommendations. I think they came str8 from a dude who had a professional set-up. I haven't adjusted them 1 time after the initial break in

 

for the techies out there- what brand is there that compares with Pioneer now that they are done? Sony the closest?

 

ETA- forgot about Panny

Edited January 20, 2010 by wildcat2334

[Avernus]

good info, my Pioneer is now, chit 2 years old, wow - anyway, AVS forums were spot on in their calibration recommendations. I think they came str8 from a dude who had a professional set-up. I haven't adjusted them 1 time after the initial break in

 

for the techies out there- what brand is there that compares with Pioneer now that they are done? Sony the closest?

 

I've been saying that it seems to change from year to year and it seems to me that the Sharp high end models are some of the best sets available....

 

the Sharp 52" LED is somewhat affordable and offers amazing picture quality...other people say it's Samsung, but for 2010 I fully expect it to be Sony and Sharp...

 

edit: the only Panny models I like are the G10 series as the others seem a bit too dark - even for a Plasma...but to me it's G10 and then there's everything else when you talk about Plasma, but also there is one Samsung Plasma I like and it has a different picture quality than the LCD/LED models...it's the 850 series and it's as flat as their LED models (around 1.5")...

 

so there is one Samsung model that I do like, but it's a plasma and that's not the route I am going right now even though I'm not a Plasma hater...I just prefer a LCD or maybe an LED model if I can when the new TV's come out..

Edited January 20, 2010 by Avernus

[MrTed46]

good info, my Pioneer is now, chit 2 years old, wow - anyway, AVS forums were spot on in their calibration recommendations. I think they came str8 from a dude who had a professional set-up. I haven't adjusted them 1 time after the initial break in

 

for the techies out there- what brand is there that compares with Pioneer now that they are done? Sony the closest?

 

ETA- forgot about Panny

 

LCD or Plasma?

 

If I were to buy a Plasma today, it would be Panny (assuming I can't get a PIO)

If I were to buy a LCD I would buy a Sony.

[Chief Dick]

So what does calibration actually DO?

 

Is it supposed to give you the most natural picture?

 

Save the life of your TV?

 

I calibrated mine tonight from a thread from the avs forum that corresponded with my TV, and the picture looks more dull to me. Not as bright and vivid.

 

Just wondering if that is how it is supposed to look.

[Avernus]

So what does calibration actually DO?

 

Is it supposed to give you the most natural picture?

 

Save the life of your TV?

 

I calibrated mine tonight from a thread from the avs forum that corresponded with my TV, and the picture looks more dull to me. Not as bright and vivid.

 

Just wondering if that is how it is supposed to look.

 

the settings that your TV has when you first buy it are made for store display and usually has a lot of the features tweaked up which shortens the lifespan of the television while not usually offering the best picture that it is capable of....which is usually in the deeper blacks/whiter whites area....

 

usually you can buy a disk to calibrate your set, but if you really go with a high end television then you will want a professional to do the job...

[Brentastic]

After my 4 year old LCD crapped out this summer - I bought a Panasonic Plasma. For the money and picture quality, I'm not sure there's a better deal out there. Plasmas seem to be real cheap because of their reputation and the whole 'burn in' issue that used to be prevalent is no longer an issue. My plasma is a 50" Viera and I paid $1680 out the door (tax, delivery, extended warranty included in price). Here's a thread I started as I was shopping around - perhaps you will find it useful:

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?show...t=0&start=0

 

I would recommend the Panasonic VIERA to anybody.

[Avernus]

After my 4 year old LCD crapped out this summer - I bought a Panasonic Plasma. For the money and picture quality, I'm not sure there's a better deal out there. Plasmas seem to be real cheap because of their reputation and the whole 'burn in' issue that used to be prevalent is no longer an issue. My plasma is a 50" Viera and I paid $1680 out the door (tax, delivery, extended warranty included in price). Here's a thread I started as I was shopping around - perhaps you will find it useful:

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?show...t=0&start=0

 

I would recommend the Panasonic VIERA to anybody.

 

I never knew Square responded to me there....

 

if Plasma's were not getting phased out then why do Sony, Sharp, Toshiba and Vizio not make them anymore?....

 

I haven't heard about any 2010 Plasma models but I've heard all about LED and OLED models along with LCD as well....

 

I'm not knocking Plasma and the Panasonic G10 series is amazing along with some of their other lines which are also of good quality if you're not capable of buying a Pioneer model....it's just that Plasma only has 2, maybe 3 years left...

[Brentastic]

I never knew Square responded to me there....

 

if Plasma's were not getting phased out then why do Sony, Sharp, Toshiba and Vizio not make them anymore?....

 

I haven't heard about any 2010 Plasma models but I've heard all about LED and OLED models along with LCD as well....

 

I'm not knocking Plasma and the Panasonic G10 series is amazing along with some of their other lines which are also of good quality if you're not capable of buying a Pioneer model....it's just that Plasma only has 2, maybe 3 years left...

You're probably right since LED is the new craze.