You WANT me on that wall! You NEED me on that wall!

[Ursa Majoris]

There are plenty enough troops here

So your idea is to leave the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, never mind the ones deployed in Europe and Asia, then, when they finally get stateside, bundle them all off to the f'n desert to fulfill your militaristic wet dreams?

 

Can we let them go shopping once a month?

[bpwallace49]

Can we let them go shopping once a month?

 

Only if they buy guns

[bpwallace49]

Illegal immigrant numbers plunge

California's number drops by 250,000, the nation's nearly 1 million. The sharpest drop in three decades renews the debate over what to do about those still here.

 

February 11, 2010|By Teresa Watanabe A new report that the nation's illegal immigrant population has declined by nearly 1 million has sharpened the debate over whether to legalize those remaining or allow their numbers to shrink through attrition.

 

The number of illegal immigrants living in the United States dropped to 10.8 million in 2009 from 11.6 million in 2008, marking the second consecutive year of decline and the sharpest decrease in at least three decades, according to a report this week by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

 

California's illegal immigrant population, still the largest in the nation, declined by 250,000 to 2.6 million. The state now accounts for just one-quarter of the nation's total illegal migrant population, compared with 30% in 2000.

 

"This represents a sharp break from the past, when pretty much the illegal population has continually grown," said Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington, D.C., research group that favors immigration restrictions. "It shows illegal immigration is not inexorable."

 

Homeland Security department spokesman Matthew Chandler attributed the decline both to the weak economy and what he called the deployment of "unprecedented resources" in stopping illegal immigration at the U.S.-Mexico border and throughout the country.

 

Immigration control advocates pounced on the report as evidence that illegal immigration can be reduced by restricting job opportunities and that legalization is not necessary to solve the problem. Giving a pathway to citizenship to qualified illegal immigrants has long been the most controversial element in congressional proposals for comprehensive immigration reform.

 

"Whether jobs dry up because the government is doing enforcement or because of the recession, illegal aliens react in a rational manner: They either will not come or they'll go home," said Ira Mehlman of the Federation for American Immigration Reform. "It certainly shows that illegal immigration is a controllable phenomenon."

 

Immigrant advocates, however, argue that millions of illegal migrants have been here for years, with settled lives they will not easily disrupt to return home.

 

"Millions of people here are good citizens and workers who pay taxes and own homes," said Father Richard Estrada of Our Lady Queen of Angels Church in Los Angeles, a self-declared sanctuary for illegal immigrants. "The reality is that they are not going back."

 

The report estimated the size of the illegal immigrant population by comparing the total foreign-born population in the United States to the legal resident population and subtracting the difference. The report cautioned that changes made to the census survey could have affected the results.

 

Researchers believe the drop was caused by a combination of fewer illegal immigrants entering the country and more leaving. Mexican government census data, for instance, showed that 226,000 fewer people left that country in the year ending August 2008 than the previous year.

 

What exactly are the "deploymnet of unprecedented resources" that the US has used to curb illegal immigration?

 

Although it is nice that the number has dropped significantly . . I guess.

[Ursa Majoris]

What exactly are the "deploymnet of unprecedented resources" that the US has used to curb illegal immigration?

Perch went down his local ER and drew down on a bunch of them.

[bpwallace49]

Perch went down his local ER and drew down on a bunch of them.

 

That IS unprecedented!

[SEC=UGA]

So your idea is to leave the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, never mind the ones deployed in Europe and Asia, then, when they finally get stateside, bundle them all off to the f'n desert to fulfill your militaristic wet dreams?

 

Can we let them go shopping once a month?

 

Well, there are a number of troops that will not go to those theatres who are stationed stateside and can fill the role of guarding the wall. In regard to Iraq and Afghanistan, I think that we need to stabilize the situations in those two countries prior to pulling the troops out. At this point I don't believe the argument of the validity of the two wars matters. We started a cluster f*ck and now we have to sort it out and unf*ck it.

 

I'm certain that there are more options than just putting soldiers on permanent duty away from home. Hell, even if it means expanding the ranks of the armed forces. But it is imperative that we begin to take the situation on the border a great deal more seriously and if in the near term it means that kids who have been over seas need to come home and guard the border for a spell while stateside, then so be it. It sucks, but it may be necessary.

 

Another option is to expand the ranks of the border patrol.

 

But, at the end of the day a wall needs to be built and it needs to be manned 24/7. And if we need to put out landmines and razor wire, I'm good with that too. IMO the situation on the border has gotten that out of control.

 

And, yes, they can go shopping once a month, but they can only get one day to do so.

[SEC=UGA]

So your idea is to leave the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, never mind the ones deployed in Europe and Asia, then, when they finally get stateside, bundle them all off to the f'n desert to fulfill your militaristic wet dreams?

 

Can we let them go shopping once a month?

 

And I forgot to add this, not sure what you are referring to by my "militaristic wet dreams". If you consider my emphatic belief that the securing of our national borders is a "mwd", then, yes, that is what I want. If you are referring to my desire to keep up troop levels in the middle east as the "mwd" then I think I explained it in the previous post.

 

If you look upon me as someone who desires to fight a war for the sake of fighting a war, you got the wrong person. I was staunchly against our sending troops into Iraq at the outset, though once they were there I resolved myself to the fact that we were there and needed to stay there.

 

Also, I believe there are "good wars" and "bad wars", Iraq being the bad type. I think kicking the diaper dirt outta N. Korea might be the good type and I am severely on the fence about Iran. With Iran, I believe we can win that one through subterfuge and propaganda and that the military option may not be necessary.

[rattsass]

We haven't fought many "good" wars or necessary wars since our first one. The only necessity of fighting the wars we have fought over the last hundred years is to fill the coffers of the US military complex with our childrens and grandchildrens money.

 

We can sit here and talk all noble about saving Afghanistan from the clutches of the taliban, but what are we really accomplishing? We have killed what is it, eight NUMBER 3 Taliban officers? Guess what, we can kill 800 more and there will always be more to take their place. We just keep feeding the war machine, while we are losing the one taking place on our border. Ridiculous.

 

Hollywood will be helping fuel the fire with the Mexploitation film, Machete, which will depict a Mexican hero slaughtering Whitey with a machete, as retribution for Whitey indiscriminately shooting Mexicans. It has been in the can for the last 3 years just waiting for the right time to spring it on the public. Race war baiting-Hollywood style.

 

This should be a non-issue. The government should follow the law and enforce. They have purposely ignored this problem for selfish political reasons Republicans want their cheap labor, Democrats want their votes. Nobody gives a rats all that we are footing the bill for all of it.

[bushwacked]

We haven't fought many "good" wars or necessary wars since our first one. The only necessity of fighting the wars we have fought over the last hundred years is to fill the coffers of the US military complex with our childrens and grandchildrens money.

 

[Caveman_Nick]

 

 

Hell is endothermic.

[BeeR]

it seems like this may not really be the situation we want to proudly hang the star spangled banner on.

If (repeat: if) the story about him being surrounded and them throwing rocks is true, in fact it is definitely and precisely the kind of situation I want to proudly hang the star spangled banner on. In fact, America/Americans saying screw the limp-wristed BS, defending itself/themselves, and oh btw holding dipsh**s accountable would be a very refreshing change of pace. eg you bring a knife to a gun fight, you're probably gonna pay and don't even cry about it. Don't like it? Then don't throw rocks at guys with guns. This isn't hard.

 

That said - if it comes out that the guy overreacted and shot someone who wasn't attacking him or a threat, toss the irresponsible POS in jail. Works both ways....ie hold people accountable.

[JoJoTheWebToedBoy]

story keeps getting more interesting....seems now Mexican patrol officers pointed their weapons at US officials who were inevestigating the incident:

 

Standard Operating Procedure on the Arizona Border.

[millerx]

We haven't fought many "good" wars or necessary wars since our first one. The only necessity of fighting the wars we have fought over the last hundred years is to fill the coffers of the US military complex with our childrens and grandchildrens money.

 

We can sit here and talk all noble about saving Afghanistan from the clutches of the taliban, but what are we really accomplishing? We have killed what is it, eight NUMBER 3 Taliban officers? Guess what, we can kill 800 more and there will always be more to take their place. We just keep feeding the war machine, while we are losing the one taking place on our border. Ridiculous.

 

Hollywood will be helping fuel the fire with the Mexploitation film, Machete, which will depict a Mexican hero slaughtering Whitey with a machete, as retribution for Whitey indiscriminately shooting Mexicans. It has been in the can for the last 3 years just waiting for the right time to spring it on the public. Race war baiting-Hollywood style.

 

This should be a non-issue. The government should follow the law and enforce. They have purposely ignored this problem for selfish political reasons Republicans want their cheap labor, Democrats want their votes. Nobody gives a rats all that we are footing the bill for all of it.

I am so sick of this myth that it is only the republicans that want their cheap labor. There are plenty of rich, democrat donors that run businesses off the backs of cheap labor... Americans in general like paying less for goods and services that are provided because of cheap labor. Quit feeding the stereotype that is the old, whitey republicans are the only ones that wants cheap labor. It is capitalism itself that wants cheap labor, regardless of party affiliation. However, you do make a good point on the Democrats wanting their votes.

[Ursa Majoris]

I am so sick of this myth that it is only the republicans that want their cheap labor. There are plenty of rich, democrat donors that run businesses off the backs of cheap labor... Americans in general like paying less for goods and services that are provided because of cheap labor. Quit feeding the stereotype that is the old, whitey republicans are the only ones that wants cheap labor. It is capitalism itself that wants cheap labor, regardless of party affiliation. However, you do make a good point on the Democrats wanting their votes.

Fair and balanced.

[polksalet]

minefield

[Scooby's Hubby]

the killed 15 year old was convicted multiple times for and as a human smuggler. He had been deported 4 times recently. He is nothing more than a gang led dummy who thought he knew the law and ended up dead due to his naivety that he could do the crime and then hide behind some invisible line. The FBI has announced that they were busting human smuggling there and that this kid was once again trafficing illegals when he got shot. Also, the Border patrol considers rock throwing as lethal aggression.

 

AZ and soon Texas, are sending a message to anyone trying to enter their state. Mexico is heading down a broken path. Their economy is led by gangs and the leadership is affrraid to get serious. Their people are used to leaching off the US and think that the US 'owes them'. The sooner we cut them off the sooner they become a better neighbor. Let the violence stay in Mexico, don't let them bring it here.

[rajncajn]

A crappy situation all around. I feel for the Border Patrol agents though. What, you supposed to just let yourself get pelted with rocks? Run and hide? It sucks that a kid gets shot but they shouldn't have been poking a bees nest with a stick and then cry when the bee stings them.

Have to agree with Kid's assessment. If they hadn't been trying to cross the border illegally in the first place then none of this would have happened. It's like these criminal who try to sue when a homeowner shoots them while they are robbing their house.

[rattsass]

bushwacked - American warfare is almost ALWAYS about money. There is no money for corporate America in keeping the border secure so we hav e chosen not to fight that war.

[Kid Cid]

There are plenty enough troops here, no need to bring them back from those two fronts, though, I wouldn't mind pulling them out of Cuba.

 

In regard to the Berlin style wall, I'm in favor of that, though the Berlin wall was used to keep people in, not out.

Sorry, there's a big f'ing need to bring our troops home.

[TimC]

Republicans want their cheap labor

 

I own slaves.

[SEC=UGA]

Sorry, there's a big f'ing need to bring our troops home.

 

Do you want to start a new thread on this issue? I don't want to throw this one off of topic.

[bpwallace49]

minefield

 

Actually not a bad idea . . .

[bpwallace49]

the killed 15 year old was convicted multiple times for and as a human smuggler. He had been deported 4 times recently. He is nothing more than a gang led dummy who thought he knew the law and ended up dead due to his naivety that he could do the crime and then hide behind some invisible line. The FBI has announced that they were busting human smuggling there and that this kid was once again trafficing illegals when he got shot. Also, the Border patrol considers rock throwing as lethal aggression.

 

AZ and soon Texas, are sending a message to anyone trying to enter their state. Mexico is heading down a broken path. Their economy is led by gangs and the leadership is affrraid to get serious. Their people are used to leaching off the US and think that the US 'owes them'. The sooner we cut them off the sooner they become a better neighbor. Let the violence stay in Mexico, don't let them bring it here.

 

The killed 15 year old was killed on Mexican soil right? This just sets a very, very dangerous precedence.

[SEC=UGA]

The killed 15 year old was killed on Mexican soil right? This just sets a very, very dangerous precedence.

 

So, if someone is shooting at one of our border guards from Mexican soil, the border guards should not return fire, rather run in the opposite direction as lead is coming in on them? Just sayin...

 

And, yes, I realize rocks and gun fire are not the same

[bpwallace49]

So, if someone is shooting at one of our border guards from Mexican soil, the border guards should not return fire, rather run in the opposite direction as lead is coming in on them? Just sayin...

 

And, yes, I realize rocks and gun fire are not the same

 

I have no problem with returning fire . . . hell, I have no problem with sowing landmines like polka suggested. But it sets a dangerous precedence if you shoot someone on another country's soil when they throw a rock. Do you shoot neighbors if a kid throws a rock at your house?

 

Now if they threw a knofe . . then by all means draw down immediately.