education priorities

[gbpfan1231]

It's so simple, but yet so politically incorrect in today's society. You've got say 70% of students that want to learn and would do fine if not dragged down by a lowest common denominator system, 15% that don't give a crap and 15% that need extra help but want to learn. Put the 15% that don't give a crap in a trade school or simply execute these losers, but get them away from the rest as quickly as possible. The 15% that needs extra help is where teachers come in. They can hand-hold them and give them all the attention they need. The other 70% get taught by DVD's and online classes at their own pace. Some will graduate quicker and some will take longer, but to pace them at the disastrously slow pace created by the general public education system is a nightmare and completely wrong. Embrace the change and what technology has to offer. We're still teaching like it's the 1800's.

Why stop at the kids - you need to go up the ladder and execute the mom and dad (if possible to find).

[MikesVikes]

Because teachers have to teach to the lowest common denominator. Teachers can no longer discipline students in the classroom and administrators can no longer use corporal punishment, and in many cases fear using other forms of punishment because Mom and Dad may raise a stink. Parents are so much to blame. When we were kids, we got sent to office and got our asses paddled, and then when we got home mom or dad would take the belt to us for additional reinforcement. Now if a teacher or administrator paddles a kid they risk a suit filed against the district and their jobs. Parents no longer discipline their children, and in many cases think their precious angels can do no wrong. It now takes an act of congress to get the bad apples sent to alternative schools.

 

I can see this happening in general. But do you think the government should say "just screw it, we have another school down the road that you can attend instead of the hole you're attending now. Just go there instead." I don't thnk that the kids in the first school should be SOL because the government has bailed on that school and you should do the same.

Edited July 8, 2010 by MikesVikes

[wiegie]

We've sort of been through this debate before and because I am a government worker (non-union though) I am too lazy to go type up my thoughts on this subject again. But you can find them (and some decent debate) here:

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=141525

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=197990

[SEC=UGA]

We've sort of been through this debate before and because I am a government worker (non-union though) I am too lazy to go type up my thoughts on this subject again. But you can find them (and some decent debate) here:

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=141525

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=197990

 

Just like a government paid professor... "My time is too valuable to give you updated info, if you want it you can look at these references. If not, well, I don't know what to tell you kid, I'm just too freaking lazy to try and give you good updated info."

[TimC]

Just like a government paid professor... "My time is too valuable to give you updated info, if you want it you can look at these references. If not, well, I don't know what to tell you kid, I'm just too freaking lazy to try and give you good updated info."

 

If you read those links, they all say that an economist is less reliable than a weatherman. And most of his students are liberal arts majors and will be hippies anyways.

[wiegie]

Just like a government paid professor... "My time is too valuable to give you updated info, if you want it you can look at these references. If not, well, I don't know what to tell you kid, I'm just too freaking lazy to try and give you good updated info."

As I sometimes ask my students when they come bother me with stupid questions: Have you read the book yet? Have you looked at the notes, I posted online yet? Hell, have you even looked at the syllabus. If you still have any questions after doing that, I will be happy to help you.

[SEC=UGA]

As I sometimes ask my students when they come bother me with stupid questions: Have you read the book yet? Have you looked at the notes, I posted online yet? Hell, have you even looked at the syllabus. If you still have any questions after doing that, I will be happy to help you.

 

Huh?

[TimC]

As I sometimes ask my students when they come bother me with stupid questions: Have you read the book yet? Have you looked at the notes, I posted online yet? Hell, have you even looked at the syllabus. If you still have any questions after doing that, I will be happy to help you.

 

Do you then point to the sign on your desk that says "I have tenure, muthaplucker"?

[wiegie]

Do you then point to the sign on your desk that says "I have tenure, muthaplucker"?

lol--nope (although I have mostly jokingly told a few classes "I don't care, I have tenure."

 

But you might be interested to read a portion of the "teaching philosophy" I was forced to write as part of my tenure application:

[

Concerning student involvement in the learning process, I fully expect that students will take responsibility for their own education and I make this known to them repeatedly throughout the classes I teach. I sometimes think that the old saying about horses and water can also be applied to students in the modified form: “You can lead a student to knowledge, but you can’t make him/her think.” A major goal I have is to try to convince students why the water is worth drinking. I will admit that sometimes my attempts at convincing don’t work. I still don’t exactly know what to do in these cases. I sometimes wonder whether my student evaluations would be higher if when I encountered a horse who didn’t want to drink, I just gave it a few sugar cubes, a pat on the nose, and let it go off to wonder out into the desert until it finally died of dehydration. I haven’t done that yet, choosing instead to follow the horse out into the desert yelling at it to drink water, with the horse ignoring me until it finally just falls over dead—at which time I can’t help myself but to keep beating the dead horse about how it needs to drink water. I can’t say that this method is overly effective (for either me or the horse). It is something that I need to work on.

[SEC=UGA]

lol--nope (although I have mostly jokingly told a few classes "I don't care, I have tenure."

 

But you might be interested to read a portion of the "teaching philosophy" I was forced to write as part of my tenure application:

[

 

Joseph Campbell had a good line in one of his lectures....

"as the old adage goes, you can send a girl to Vasser but you can't make her think."

[wiegie]

Huh?

that wasn't directed at you as much as it was venting about students who want everything spoon-fed to them

[westvirginia]

Joseph Campbell had a good line in one of his lectures....

"as the old adage goes, you can send a girl to Vasser but you can't make her think."

 

I always heard it as "No matter how much drinking, smoking and wh0ring an Auburn girl does on Saturday night, she'll still be in the pew for church on Sunday morning".

[Jimmy Neutron]

some of what u say it true but not all kids at alternative schools are dummies. in fact many are smarter than those in AP classes. it boils down to parents and the schools. what amount of crap are they going to allow and how progressive in the teaching are they. Many older teachers fail to see that kids learn in different ways and are stuck in the "old" teaching methods. I work in a very progressive school that scores higher than most on everything( one percent ACT and many 34 +'s and 2 of my Alternative kids scored 35's). They pay special attention to the TOP end as well as the bottom. If you leave kids behind/ignore and or discard them they will end up costing you more than any another. I have found the school admin and school boards can be some of the biggest hindrances in change ever. Having a school board full of people that have never had any school experience can be quite painful to watch.

 

Amen, Yuke.

[Yukon Cornelius]

well, there is obviously some truth to that. I read somewhere in a study of results from some school lottery system that the number one predictor of academic success was participation in the lottery. in other words, kids with parents who cared enough to try and get them into the best school did better whether they ended up in the "good" school or the "not so good" school.

 

 

 

well, I agree. so do you think a system that gives parents school choice is more or less likely to see them involved in making decisions? seems pretty obvious. that is really what it comes down to. in new orleans, you see a lot of parents probably more involved than they were in the past.

charter school git to pick and choose. not a lot of cognitively delayed kids and a science charter school.

 

so, it seems we agree that lack of parental involvment is the biggest problem of all, and we agree districts with school choice see parents much more involved, do we also agree that school choice is therefore a good thing?

like anything else school choice starts out to be a good thing then everyone figures out the loop holes. how many kids that are severely handicapped "git " to choose to go to another school across town? all that school has to say is that "IT cant meet the child's needs at this time" and the child has to go to his or her home school. Now if a 1%er wanted to transfer to said school they would make all the room needed to git him or her in.

[Yukon Cornelius]

I wasn't talking about the kids that are just slower or have real learning disabilities. I'm talking about alternative schools for the the thugs and thugettes. They are distractions in the classroom that don't want to be there and are hindering the learning of others. By doing this, it would actually help those slower and truly learning challenged students, because the teacher could spend less time baby sitting and more time helping them.

our school pulls them starting in 8th grade, they have small classes and basically you just babysit them... any school district that has 2 beans to rub together will. the problem is many smaller schools don't or wont and you are right those are kids are a big drain on the school as a whole. All that goes back to the 80's when they mad it impossible for school to cut a kid loose. Lawyers/parents and the feds( feds really come down on a school hard if they kick a kid out). Until society realizes that not everyone will go to college and schools are not graded on graduate rates things will not change.

[Perchoutofwater]

our school pulls them starting in 8th grade, they have small classes and basically you just babysit them... any school district that has 2 beans to rub together will. the problem is many smaller schools don't or wont and you are right those are kids are a big drain on the school as a whole. All that goes back to the 80's when they mad it impossible for school to cut a kid loose. Lawyers/parents and the feds( feds really come down on a school hard if they kick a kid out). Until society realizes that not everyone will go to college and schools are not graded on graduate rates things will not change.

 

Yep, I've seen it when I was in school, and have heard horror story after horror story from my wife. Earlier this year we had a high school teacher murdered by a kid that had no business being in the school, but the district either couldn't or didn't have the balls to kick him out. The kid had already stabbed some member of his family, and had temporarily been put in alternative school several times but they felt he had to be mainstreamed for some reason.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Perchoutofwater