healthcare

[dmarc117]

i thought the new changes were beneficial to the working man...........

 

Arguing that they need to offset the rising cost of health care, unions representing nearly 100,000 workers are seeking a pay increase of 15 percent over three years. The employers offered an increase of 3.75 percent. Currently, union workers earn hourly wages of between $53.37 and $68.18, a figure that includes the cost of benefits.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-...0,5672954.story

 

[wiegie]

I'm pretty sure that this was to be expected. A person's total compensation consists of wages plus benefits. For years, many people have been willing to accept lower wages in exchange for higher benefits (especially since health-care benefits weren't taxed). But not that "cadillac" health care plans are going to be taxed, it is easy to see that people are going to say, "ok, we will pay for more of our health-care, but you have to pay us higher wages."

[wiegie]

i thought the new changes were beneficial to the working man...........

and I think some here will also take exception to you refering to union workers as "the working man". Many people here "know" that union workers are just lazy leaches who have actual work as the last thing on their minds.

[SEC=UGA]

i thought the new changes were beneficial to the working man...........

 

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-...0,5672954.story

 

 

Lemme get this straight... These guys are making, based on $35 per hour, 40 hours per week, for 49 weeks per year, $68,600. A fifteen percent raise would increase that to, on average, $78,890... For a family of four at my office, only one meets this requirement, with one of the adults being diabetic, my cost for health coverage (we pay 100% of it, so I'm not certain what the pass through would be) is $1,696 per month, or $20,352 per year. On average my health permiums have increased by 22%, so on the above figure the cost increase per year would be $4,477.

 

The Union wants a, on average, $10,290 dollar per year raise to cover increased health care costs. Are they trying to tell me that their employees portion of health insurance premiums have gone up by $10,290? I ask this, because, in my simple mind, it would make sense that since the 15% raise is to cover increases in health insurance that this figure would be the amount by which their insurance has gone up.

 

So, say they pay 50% of the cost of their health coverage and the company pays the other 50%. To Justify this $10,000 pay increase, on average their premiums for their health plans are costing the company and employee over $136K per person per year?!?!?!?!?!

 

I seriously doubt this is the case and it seems like a ludicrous request on behalf of the unions. Secondly, for the education level and the skill set that these people have, $68,600K per year seems like an AWFULLY nice standard of living. I'd have to look at COL analysis for Chicago, but me thinks that $68,600K per year is quite a bit higher than the median HOUSEHOLD income for the city.

 

My opinion, let them strike, fire them all and hire non-union workers that will do this for half the price. This would save the city of Chicago MILLIONS of dollars per year and possibly help them better fund the government at a lower tax rate to all of its citizens.

 

ETA: I did reread the article and determined I misread one part... thought it said the hourly wage "did not include" benefits... So I'm reworking it. REWORKED

Edited July 8, 2010 by SEC=UGA

[dmarc117]

and I think some here will also take exception to you refering to union workers as "the working man". Many people here "know" that union workers are just lazy leaches who have actual work as the last thing on their minds.

 

 

those people are smart

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Secondly, for the education level and the skill set that these people have, $68,600K per year seems like an AWFULLY nice standard of living. .

I have no opinion on anything in the article and I've never been part of a union. I do however work in the construction field and have for quite a while.

 

Undoubtedly you're far more educated than me. I'll assume since you said "your office" that you sit at a desk. How much do people in your field deserve to earn? Some of us risk our lives at work from time to time supplying electricity to office workers so they can get paid to post at the huddle from their desk all day. How much are these people worth per year?

 

Pretty ignorant statement on your part IMO.

[mrip]

I have no opinion on anything in the article and I've never been part of a union. I do however work in the construction field and have for quite a while.

 

Undoubtedly you're far more educated than me. I'll assume since you said "your office" that you sit at a desk. How much do people in your field deserve to earn? Some of us risk our lives at work from time to time supplying electricity to office workers so they can get paid to post at the huddle from their desk all day. How much are these people worth per year?

 

Pretty ignorant statement on your part IMO.

 

I agree that construction/physical labor jobs are hard and dangerous and the people that do it should earn a decent wage, but I know people who went to college then grad school, not working for 7 years, graduated with over $130k in debt, and are making less than half what union physical laborers make.

Edited July 8, 2010 by mrip

[TimC]

ISome of us risk our lives at work from time to time supplying electricity to office workers so they can get paid to post at the huddle from their desk all day. How much are these people worth per year?

 

Pretty ignorant statement on your part IMO.

 

Zero dollars. The Government should provide our electricity for us.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

I agree that construction/physical labor jobs are hard and dangerous and the people that do it should earn a decent wage, but I know people who went to college then grad school, not working for 7 years, graduated with over $130k in debt, and are making less than half what union physical laborers make.

 

fair enough

 

Zero dollars. The Government should provide our electricity for us.

[SEC=UGA]

I have no opinion on anything in the article and I've never been part of a union. I do however work in the construction field and have for quite a while.

 

Undoubtedly you're far more educated than me. I'll assume since you said "your office" that you sit at a desk. How much do people in your field deserve to earn? Some of us risk our lives at work from time to time supplying electricity to office workers so they can get paid to post at the huddle from their desk all day. How much are these people worth per year?

 

Pretty ignorant statement on your part IMO.

 

I am sitting at a desk and running a small business, a construction business.

 

When I started college all I wanted to do was drink and carouse. I got placed on academic probation after three quarters at which time my parents refused to pay. So, I started working on a construction crew making about 6.50 an hour erecting self storage facilities. Did that for a year and a half and saved enough money to go back to college as I decided that the labor was too intense for me and that I could only do such work into my mid 30's. Four years later I graduated from college with a 3.5. I worked as a financial planner for about a year and decided it was best for me to get out of that, I hated going to work, and went to graduate school. I graduated from there with an MBA in Real Estate Finance with a 3.8. I did retail and multi-family acquisitions for about a year and a half and then went to work for Cushman and Wakefield a large commercial RE brokerage firm. Currently I am co-owner of a construction company specializing in the self storage industry.

 

We pay our laborers very well and our foremen and project managers even better. I offer all of my employees full benefits, they have no copay on their BS/BS health insurance (I cover their whole families for free), they have no co pay on their AFLAC coverage (again families are included), I give each in office employee a gas card so they don't pay for gas to and from work, I take the whole office out to lunch every Friday, and We offer life insurance packages of which we cover half of the premium up to 3X the employees annual income. Currently business is extremely SLOW, I have manged to keep two of my in house crews and even when they are not working I pay them 20 hours per week. Laborers average about $18 per hour, foremen average about 30 to 35 per hour. Our subs we pay $1.65 per sf of work that they do. These are the metrics that I use to decide that the union employees are overpaid.

[Big John]

We pay our laborers very well and our foremen and project managers even better. I offer all of my employees full benefits, they have no copay on their BS/BS health insurance (I cover their whole families for free),

A commentary of BC/BS?

[SEC=UGA]

A commentary of BC/BS?

 

lol, got me there. They are better than the Pinnacle stuff I used to offer.

[rattsass]

I worked as a temp for a union shop many years ago. I was raised to do whatever job you do to the best of your ability. So when I showed up, I went about my business as usual, working as quickly and efficiently as I could. I soon started to encounter dirty looks, whispers, and soon enough I was verbally confronted by a long-time union employee. I was "working too hard" and all the union people did not like it one bit. I was soon enough dispatched back to the temp agency, and my "confrontation" was given as the reason . It seems I was not "union" material. Truth was though, I didn't want to work there anyway. Predominately a bunch of overpaid, lazy dolts that wouldn't last a minute outside the protective shell of their union.

 

My dad was in the UAW for the first ten years of my life. He topped out in wages, and his last job was as a QC. That job involved sitting on his ass all day, only getting up to check the line once an hour as outlined in his job description. He had enough and struck out on his own, and never had a job ever again.

 

Needless to say, there is no instrument big enough to measure my apathy when I hear about some poor put-upon union people, or union pensions in distress. I get a lot more bent about a government that keeps putting road-blocks in front of small business owners. Those people that work their ass off and are rewarded based on that effort are what built this country. Unions have only helped destroy it, regardless of the noble intentions they may have started out with.

[wiegie]

We pay our laborers very well and our foremen and project managers even better. I offer all of my employees full benefits, they have no copay on their BS/BS health insurance (I cover their whole families for free), they have no co pay on their AFLAC coverage (again families are included), I give each in office employee a gas card so they don't pay for gas to and from work, I take the whole office out to lunch every Friday, and We offer life insurance packages of which we cover half of the premium up to 3X the employees annual income. Currently business is extremely SLOW, I have manged to keep two of my in house crews and even when they are not working I pay them 20 hours per week. Laborers average about $18 per hour, foremen average about 30 to 35 per hour. Our subs we pay $1.65 per sf of work that they do. These are the metrics that I use to decide that the union employees are overpaid.

damn, bitch, you want to hire an economist?

[westvirginia]

damn, bitch, you want to hire an economist?

 

Didn't you read his whole post? He already has two crews doing nothing right now, what would he need you for?

[SEC=UGA]

damn, bitch, you want to hire an economist?

 

If you can write to Obama and the fed and convince them to lighten up the capital requirements for the banks so that they will start lending again I'll pay you twice your current pay and give you the`aforementioned benefits. I will also sign a 5 year contract with you and guarantee you an annual raise that is the same % as our annual increase in net income*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*this is not a binding contract

[wiegie]

Didn't you read his whole post? He already has two crews doing nothing right now, what would he need you for?

uh, he is only paying them for doing nothing for 20 hours per week... I will expect him to pay me for doing nothing for 40 hours per week

[Perchoutofwater]

uh, he is only paying them for doing nothing for 20 hours per week... I will expect him to pay me for doing nothing for 40 hours per week

 

Isn't somebody already doing that?

[wiegie]

Isn't somebody already doing that?

yes, but they make me pay a co-pay

[HowboutthemCowboys]

I am sitting at a desk and running a small business, a construction business.

 

When I started college all I wanted to do was drink and carouse. I got placed on academic probation after three quarters at which time my parents refused to pay. So, I started working on a construction crew making about 6.50 an hour erecting self storage facilities. Did that for a year and a half and saved enough money to go back to college as I decided that the labor was too intense for me and that I could only do such work into my mid 30's. Four years later I graduated from college with a 3.5. I worked as a financial planner for about a year and decided it was best for me to get out of that, I hated going to work, and went to graduate school. I graduated from there with an MBA in Real Estate Finance with a 3.8. I did retail and multi-family acquisitions for about a year and a half and then went to work for Cushman and Wakefield a large commercial RE brokerage firm. Currently I am co-owner of a construction company specializing in the self storage industry.

 

We pay our laborers very well and our foremen and project managers even better. I offer all of my employees full benefits, they have no copay on their BS/BS health insurance (I cover their whole families for free), they have no co pay on their AFLAC coverage (again families are included), I give each in office employee a gas card so they don't pay for gas to and from work, I take the whole office out to lunch every Friday, and We offer life insurance packages of which we cover half of the premium up to 3X the employees annual income. Currently business is extremely SLOW, I have manged to keep two of my in house crews and even when they are not working I pay them 20 hours per week. Laborers average about $18 per hour, foremen average about 30 to 35 per hour. Our subs we pay $1.65 per sf of work that they do. These are the metrics that I use to decide that the union employees are overpaid.

I've been on only a few jobs working around union guys. The ones I've seen busted ass.

 

Hope business picks up for you.

[Perchoutofwater]

I've been on only a few jobs working around union guys. The ones I've seen busted ass.

 

Hope business picks up for you.

 

Luckily we do business in an area with a very, very weak union presence. The few times I have had the opportunity to see union workers on a job site I was not impressed. You have three guys doing a job that one guy can do. I remember when I was in high school, I was working on a job site an noticed two guys just standing around doing nothing. After a while I went up to our superintendent and asked what was the deal with them. He explained to me that it takes a three man crew to run a jack hammer, one to actually do the real work, one to deal with the hoses, and one fill up and check the oil on the compressor. I wouldn't give a plug nickel for any of those guys. I'm sure there are some good union workers, but I'm just as sure they are over paid. If businesses used the same tactics as the unions do where there is a strong union presence the government would step in.

[Ursa Majoris]

If businesses used the same tactics as the unions do where there is a strong union presence the government would step in.

Businesses - SOME businesses - do use exactly the same tactics against workers when there is a weak or no union presence. Please don't pretend this is a one way street because it isn't. The example in this thread supports the argument that unions are unreasonable, for sure, but I can dredge up any number of examples of businesses abusing their workforce too.

[Perchoutofwater]

Businesses - SOME businesses - do use exactly the same tactics against workers when there is a weak or no union presence. Please don't pretend this is a one way street because it isn't. The example in this thread supports the argument that unions are unreasonable, for sure, but I can dredge up any number of examples of businesses abusing their workforce too.

 

The difference is if you don't like your employer or thinking they are not treating you fairly you can apply for a job across the street. If you are in an area with a strong union presence about the only thing you can do is move your business which many cases impractical for a number of reasons.

[Ursa Majoris]

The difference is if you don't like your employer or thinking they are not treating you fairly you can apply for a job across the street. If you are in an area with a strong union presence about the only thing you can do is move your business which many cases impractical for a number of reasons.

Absolutely, because there are so many great obs going begging now it's ridiculous. I mean, most companies have installed revolving doors so many people are jumping ship for riches across the street.

[yo mama]

Isn't somebody already doing that?

Of course. He has tenure.