What age is too young for a child to learn to use a gun?

[i_am_the_swammi]

Swammi, your post makes many assumptions.

 

Let me ask you this: Has drivers training eliminated accidents?

 

Answer: No. People with safe drivers training and many, many years of experience and often times many, many years of perfect driving records still have accidents and occasionally people get killed.

 

Do you know this guy was a clown, or maybe he just got distracted by something for a brief moment and that ended in a tragic accident.

 

Please show me the law and/or mandatory training that fixes the tendency of humans to get distracted or fixes the capacity of humans to do stupid things.

 

I train. I repeat the safety mantras over and over. People still forget. People make mistakes. You can never overcome that.

 

I understand your post. I understand accidents happen even with training.

 

But with this line of thinking, we should abolish Drivers Education classes, because, really, accidents happen anyway, right?

 

Of course we never would. Common sense says that if you are going to operate a vehicle on roads, you are going to be trained first how to operate that vehicle, so potential accidents can be mitigated. I just don't understand why the same precautions, for the same reasons, wouldn't be required before issuing someone a license to utilize a weapon.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I do have a problem with the government telling me what I can do on my own private property.

 

Should you be allowed to shoot heroin on your own property? Committ assault? Rape?

 

Don't tell me that some of these are crimes against others, because accidental shootings on your property are also crimes against others. Its called Involuntary Manslaughter, regardless of where it happens.

[gbpfan1231]

Should you be allowed to shoot heroin on your own property? Committ assault? Rape?

 

Don't tell me that some of these are crimes against others, because accidental shootings on your property are also crimes against others. Its called Involuntary Manslaughter, regardless of where it happens.

Agree again - ZOMOMG!!!!! I am becoming a liberal.

[yo mama]

Any age, I suppose, based on the responsible judgment of the parent at issue. Unfortunately, there are irresponsible gun owners out there who also happen to be parents.

 

While I would NOT support a per se age limit on kids learning how to use guns, I WOULD support a law that ensured parents were held both criminally and civilly liable for any incidents that occurred in connection with the guns they put in the hands of their kids. The 2nd Amendment is not carte blanch for people to do whatever they damned well please with their guns.

[bpwallace49]

You do not have to have a drivers education course or a drivers license to drive on your own private property. You don't have to take a course in order to serve alcohol to your friends at your home. There are no laws in my county requiring me to have a fence around my swimming pool, and I see them all the time unfenced. All of what you are talking about is only regulated on public or open to the public areas not private property. I have no problem with required permitting (and associated education) for concealed carry, I have no problem with hunters education courses if you are hunting on public lands. I do have a problem with the government telling me what I can do on my own private property.

 

You can shoot a gun when on your property and kill someone that lives on THEIR property next door. We DO have laws for fencing for pools so kids dont jump in when they cant swim and drown. (remember your spurious swimming pool argumnet?? )

 

So you cn committ any kind of crime like rape, assault, murder, as long as it son your own property, right? Just want to make that clear . . .

[Azazello1313]

Should you be allowed to shoot heroin on your own property? Committ assault? Rape?

 

Don't tell me that some of these are crimes against others, because accidental shootings on your property are also crimes against others. Its called Involuntary Manslaughter, regardless of where it happens.

 

that is why you outlaw manslaughter, assault, and rape -- rather than outlawing guns, slutty clothes and anything one person might use to assault another.

[Perchoutofwater]

You can shoot a gun when on your property and kill someone that lives on THEIR property next door. We DO have laws for fencing for pools so kids dont jump in when they cant swim and drown. (remember your spurious swimming pool argumnet?? )

 

So you cn committ any kind of crime like rape, assault, murder, as long as it son your own property, right? Just want to make that clear . . .

 

BP, I can cook outside, be irresponsible and leave the fire unattended resulting in a fire that could kill my neighbor as well. Should we have mandatory bbq classes before we are allowed to use a grill? That is probably more likely than me accidentally shooting my neighbor. While your town or county (more likely town) may have ordinances requiring fencing a swimming pool, mine does not. It is up to the property owner to be responsible and protect those around him, and his property. It is in my best interest to fence my pool because I don't want a kid to drown, nor do I want the resulting lawsuits, so I fence the pool. I don't need the government telling me to do it. I guess if you can't think for yourself you might need the government to tell you how to do everything, but I enjoy my freedom to use my property as I see fit within reason.

[Caveman_Nick]

I understand your post. I understand accidents happen even with training.

 

But with this line of thinking, we should abolish Drivers Education classes, because, really, accidents happen anyway, right?

 

Of course we never would. Common sense says that if you are going to operate a vehicle on roads, you are going to be trained first how to operate that vehicle, so potential accidents can be mitigated. I just don't understand why the same precautions, for the same reasons, wouldn't be required before issuing someone a license to utilize a weapon.

 

See my previous post on licensing and training. All for it so long as the governement gets out of the business of hastling, judging and discriminating based on arbitrary criteria.

 

LTCs for everyone without restriction so long as they meet those minimum standards outlined.

[Perchoutofwater]

Any age, I suppose, based on the responsible judgment of the parent at issue. Unfortunately, there are irresponsible gun owners out there who also happen to be parents.

 

While I would NOT support a per se age limit on kids learning how to use guns, I WOULD support a law that ensured parents were held both criminally and civilly liable for any incidents that occurred in connection with the guns they put in the hands of their kids. The 2nd Amendment is not carte blanch for people to do whatever they damned well please with their guns.

 

I doubt you will find anyone that disagrees with that. Most of us here that support gun rights and are big into guns are also big into personal responsibility.

[bpwallace49]

BP, I can cook outside, be irresponsible and leave the fire unattended resulting in a fire that could kill my neighbor as well. Should we have mandatory bbq classes before we are allowed to use a grill? That is probably more likely than me accidentally shooting my neighbor. While your town or county (more likely town) may have ordinances requiring fencing a swimming pool, mine does not. It is up to the property owner to be responsible and protect those around him, and his property. It is in my best interest to fence my pool because I don't want a kid to drown, nor do I want the resulting lawsuits, so I fence the pool. I don't need the government telling me to do it. I guess if you can't think for yourself you might need the government to tell you how to do everything, but I enjoy my freedom to use my property as I see fit within reason.

 

that is where you get ridiculous . . . . if people choose to buy a gun, then I really dont have any problem with having them take a safety course beforehand. Not everyone is a responsible as you and your lock-down compound when it comes to guns. THAT IS THE POINT. Comapring a gun to a match is the same dumbass argumnet that the NRA uses, and in the next breath they talk about how their guns will be confiscated.

 

Perch, what would your response be if some irresponsible person but a bullet in your wifes head as she drives past a guy with a gun on his own property because they didnt know to handle a gun properly and it could have been avoided through a simple gun safety course? "Oh well, yay for personal responsibility?" This concept of a safety course would have very little effect on you, especially if there is an opt out or test yuou can take to prove competency. It is to guard against the people that ARE irresponsible in a way that they cant get around.

 

Damn it . . caught by perch's again . . .

Edited July 15, 2010 by bpwallace49

[SEC=UGA]

BP, I can cook outside, be irresponsible and leave the fire unattended resulting in a fire that could kill my neighbor as well. Should we have mandatory bbq classes before we are allowed to use a grill? That is probably more likely than me accidentally shooting my neighbor. While your town or county (more likely town) may have ordinances requiring fencing a swimming pool, mine does not. It is up to the property owner to be responsible and protect those around him, and his property. It is in my best interest to fence my pool because I don't want a kid to drown, nor do I want the resulting lawsuits, so I fence the pool. I don't need the government telling me to do it. I guess if you can't think for yourself you might need the government to tell you how to do everything, but I enjoy my freedom to use my property as I see fit within reason.

 

My only response is to the first part... In MANY jurisdictions it is against the law to have grills in attached dwelling developments. You want to talk about infringing upon rights for the safety of the masses...

[Azazello1313]

I think this thread also gives us a good picture as to who at the huddle is likely to be on an HOA.

[yo mama]

I doubt you will find anyone that disagrees with that. Most of us here that support gun rights and are big into guns are also big into personal responsibility.

I know. But unfortunately your policies also make it far too easy for irresponsible gun owners to cause irreparable harm. I understand that we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, but I have very little confidence in the gun lobby's ability or desire to protect me from irresponsible gun owners. Enforcement laws are a little like closing the barn door after the horse is already out. If my kid gets shot "accidentally" it is little solace that irresponsible gun owner will go to jail; I'd rather the irresponsible gun owner not have a gun in the first place. There's a reason the 2nd Amendment was initially linked to the tradition of local militia: because public safety was the paramount concern of the citizenry. And its not really like that anymore. The right of the individual to protect himself has replaced the origins of communal protection and public safety. And the fact of the matter is that irresponsible gun ownership makes any community less safe, which is anathema to the core purpose of the 2nd Amendment in the first place.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I think this thread also gives us a good picture as to who at the huddle is likely to be on an HOA.

 

....and to who is more likely to lose their home and everything else

[Perchoutofwater]

that is where you get ridiculous . . . . if people choose to buy a gun, then I really dont have any problem with having them take a safety course beforehand. Not everyone is a responsible as you and your lock-down compound when it comes to guns. THAT IS THE POINT. Comapring a gun to a match is the same dumbass argumnet that the NRA uses, and in the next breath they talk about how their guns will be confiscated.

 

Perch, what would your response be if some irresponsible person but a bullet in your wifes head as she drives past a guy with a gun on his own property because they didnt know to handle a gun properly and it could have been avoided through a simple gun safety course? "Oh well, yay for personal responsibility?" This concept of a safety course would have very little effect on you, especially if there is an opt out or test yuou can take to prove competency. It is to guard against the people that ARE irresponsible in a way that they cant get around.

 

Damn it . . caught by perch's again . . .

 

Again, I'm not necessarily against a safety course for the purchase of a fire arm. I'm against requiring my kid under my supervision to have to take a safety course (or be of a certain age) to fire my firearm on my property.

 

With regard to my wife getting accidentally shot by some yahoo, well she is more likely to get shot by some criminal in an area with stricter gun laws, as statistics have proven the higher the gun ownership, and the ability to carry the lower the crime rate. She is much more likely to get hit by you driving down the road texting than she is a stray bullet.

[Azazello1313]

what are the numbers on accidental deaths per year from a gun belonging to someone else?

[i_am_the_swammi]

She is much more likely to get hit by you driving down the road texting than she is a stray bullet.

 

Thank goodness there is a groundswell of people against texting while driving. Maybe it will lead to stiffer penalties for those that do it, and it's dangers will become a part of Driver's Ed courses.

 

Wait, that already happened.

[TimC]

I haven't read all 5 pages....has anyone guessed "8" yet? If not, what do I win?

Edited July 15, 2010 by TimC

[bpwallace49]

Again, I'm not necessarily against a safety course for the purchase of a fire arm. I'm against requiring my kid under my supervision to have to take a safety course (or be of a certain age) to fire my firearm on my property.

 

I am not against that either Perch . . but I would like the adult that is teaching the kid to know what the fruck they are doing before teaching the kid equally poor gun safety.

[Jimmy Neutron]

I think this thread also gives us a good picture as to who at the huddle is likely to be on an HOA.