Implement Health Care Reform

[westvirginia]

How hard is this to understand? I was 21 when I graduated undergrad. I had no ins from the time three months after graduating until I got married at 25. During that time, I NEVER went to the Dr., emergency room, and had yearly dentist visits paid for out of pocket. It was only when I gained the responsibility for someone else that I saw the need for it. MANY people do this. It's not uncommon. Not everybody NEEDS the Goddamned federal government to to tax and legislate the risk out of life for them.

 

And Yo, you and I have had the tenth amendment discussion before. Just because the courts basically ignore it doesn't mean it isn't there. God knows bushwhanker and watertard are still here. I know PLENTY of people who don't drive. Everywhere is not a fookin' city. Out here in the sticks there are plenty of people who don't drive, don't have cars, and don't pay auto insurance. I think it's specious, at best, to make that comparison. In all the other cases you listed there is a "do nothing" option. Don't spend the money, don't get the benefit. This is tyrranical coercion, plain and simple.

 

Now, as others have said, there are many other things that could be done. Coercion is NEVER the answer. But hey, it works for the war on (some) drugs, huh?

 

This was the point I've tried to make repeatedly. Prior to Obamacare, the right were constantly harping on about this. Now they have switched sides and the freeloaders are the oppressed.

[yo mama]

How hard is this to understand? I was 21 when I graduated undergrad. I had no ins from the time three months after graduating until I got married at 25. During that time, I NEVER went to the Dr., emergency room, and had yearly dentist visits paid for out of pocket. It was only when I gained the responsibility for someone else that I saw the need for it. MANY people do this. It's not uncommon. Not everybody NEEDS the Goddamned federal government to to tax and legislate the risk out of life for them.

 

And Yo, you and I have had the tenth amendment discussion before. Just because the courts basically ignore it doesn't mean it isn't there. God knows bushwhanker and watertard are still here. I know PLENTY of people who don't drive. Everywhere is not a fookin' city. Out here in the sticks there are plenty of people who don't drive, don't have cars, and don't pay auto insurance. I think it's specious, at best, to make that comparison. In all the other cases you listed there is a "do nothing" option. Don't spend the money, don't get the benefit. This is tyrranical coercion, plain and simple.

 

Now, as others have said, there are many other things that could be done. Coercion is NEVER the answer. But hey, it works for the war on (some) drugs, huh?

The primary difference is this: if you get into car accident and try to ask the government or a mechanic to fix your car for free, they'll tell you to go f**k yourself. Get sick, and the hospitals MUST treat you, which forces someone else to pay for it.

 

Unless and until the uninsured can be turned away from receiving services - like a mechanic can turn away someone who can't pay for car repairs - the situation is different. As long as the uninsured have the ability to force me to pay their hospital bills, I don't mind the government forcing that segment of the population to chip in for the cost of providing health care to that segment of the population.

 

ETA: and while you can choose not to have a car, and thus avoid a car accident, you cannot choose not to get sick.

Edited December 15, 2010 by yo mama

[wiegie]

From the other thread since Cliaz missed it there:

As for the actual surgeries and medications, ect, create an amendment to medicaid/medicare for those.

explain this in more detail please

 

bump

[bushwacked]

The primary difference is this: if you get into car accident and try to ask the government or a mechanic to fix your car for free, they'll tell you to go f**k yourself. Get sick, and the hospitals MUST treat you, which forces someone else to pay for it.

 

Unless and until the uninsured can be turned away from receiving services - like a mechanic can turn away someone who can't pay for car repairs - the situation is different. As long as the uninsured have the ability to force me to pay their hospital bills, I don't mind the government forcing that segment of the population to chip in for the cost of providing health care to that segment of the population.

 

 

Pfft.....yer real world cause and effect rationale bears no weight in Ayn Rand fantasy-land where anything besides absolute freedom is deemed unworthy from the disciples on behalf of her majesty. That and you are a Socialist sympathizer.

[yo mama]

Pfft.....yer real world cause and effect rationale bears no weight in Ayn Rand fantasy-land where anything besides absolute freedom is deemed unworthy from the disciples on behalf of her majesty. That and you are a Socialist sympathizer.

While I'm not a fan of ObamaCare, you'd think "economic conservatives" would be in favor of making people take personal responsibility for the expenses they incur. Either that, or we reconsider death panels.

[cliaz]

From the other thread since Cliaz missed it there:

 

explain this in more detail please

 

bump

 

I will once I understand what I meant by that. I honestly cannot remember. Maybe I was thinking that those with without private healthcare could roll up in that system, I don't know. Don't hold me to it since I was simply throwing out some examples and that last part came right as my family came home and the work phone started ringing.

 

If you want I can work up an idea using my line of thought with the CISCO pods and try to bring something logical in that we can discuss.

[bushwacked]

While I'm not a fan of ObamaCare, you'd think "economic conservatives" would be in favor of making people take personal responsibility for the expenses they incur. Either that, or we reconsider death panels.

 

I'm not sure anyone is a fan of ObamaCare, in my mind it has a few good baby steps with many larger issues ignored. It's apparent any kind of HC regulation is going to upset conservatives, despite the fact the free market approach was a failed facade in the first place.

[redrumjuice]

While I'm not a fan of ObamaCare, you'd think "economic conservatives" would be in favor of making people take personal responsibility for the expenses they incur.

 

If you don't have insurance, and you go to the hospital, they send you a bill.

 

What if Obama's healthcare law required every American to buy a gun? How'd you feel about that?

[yo mama]

If you don't have insurance, and you go to the hospital, they send you a bill.

 

What if Obama's healthcare law required every American to buy a gun? How'd you feel about that?

Sure. Bills that most people don't end up paying 100% of because they can't afford to.

 

Terrible analogy. First, because if I already have a gun ObamaCare wouldn't force me to buy another. Second, its a broken analogy (guns to health care) because people are consuming health care without paying for it and ObamaCare is merely trying to fund those existing expenses. How many consumers are able to take guns from a store and have some anonymous taxpayer pay for them?

Edited December 15, 2010 by yo mama

[redrumjuice]

Bills that most people don't end up paying 100% of because they can't afford to.

 

Exactly, maybe hussein gave them a waiver too.

 

because people are consuming health care without paying for it and ObamaCare is merely trying to fund those existing expenses.

 

Uhm, I am pretty sure they are trying to do quite a bit more than that tutie frutie.

 

They are trying to fundamentally change the entire way health care is provided and run in America.

 

No one says there weren't some issues with health care and costs, but we didn't vote for government run healthcare, which is what this abortion of a bill is. States like Texas and OK simply WILL not comply. You can't make us.

 

The left would prefer lawyers make the health decisions, Americans would prefer a doctor too. They way they had to pass this abortion is the only proof we need. 2012 can't come fast enough. You can keep hussein, he's worthless and powerless.

[redrumjuice]

Obama and his congressional and union allies have lectured us that socialized medicine is the cure for the nation's ills, but I have a question. If socialized medicine, Obamacare, is so great for the nation, why permit anyone to be exempted from it? It turns out that as of the end of November, Obama's health and human services secretary has issued over 200 waivers to major labor unions such as the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Union and Transport Workers Union of America and major companies such as McDonald's and Darden Restaurants, which operates Red Lobster and Olive Garden. Keep in mind that the power to grant waivers is also the power not to grant waivers. Such power can be used to reward administration friends and punish administration critics by saddling them with millions of dollars of health-care costs.

 

There is nothing else that needs to be said.

[bpwallace49]

The left would prefer lawyers make the health decisions, the right would prefer a health insurance underwriter or lawyer via tort reform

finished

[WaterMan]

I'm not sure anyone is a fan of ObamaCare, in my mind it has a few good baby steps with many larger issues ignored. It's apparent any kind of HC regulation is going to upset conservatives, despite the fact the free market approach was a failed facade in the first place.

 

Where's Dr. Quinn medicine woman when you need her?

[cre8tiff]

Where's Dr. Quinn medicine woman when you need her?

 

She was hawt. I always though that would make a prono.

[bushwacked]

What if Obama's healthcare law required every American to buy a gun? How'd you feel about that?

 

What would you do if everyone was forced to pay taxes for roads even if they took the subway to work? Huh? Would you stand up for your freedumb?

[Yukon Cornelius]

What would you do if everyone was forced to pay taxes for roads even if they took the subway to work? Huh? Would you stand up for your freedumb?

or pay taxes and not send your kids to public school, or ever need the fire man or the police woman ...... the list is endless

[Square]

What would you do if everyone was forced to pay taxes for roads even if they took the subway to work? Huh? Would you stand up for your freedumb?

 

or pay taxes and not send your kids to public school, or ever need the fire man or the police woman ...... the list is endless

 

Seriously though, I have another random thought. If so many people don't trust government to get involved in Health care and health insurance... Why do we have Medicare for the elderly and Federal hospitals for veterans? I mean, we don't trust the government (which I can understand) but it's good enough for the elderly (who seriously need it) and the people who defended our country (I mean they made it through WWII but the government death panels will surely get them now).

 

IMO, regardless of whether you like Obamacare or not. The current system is pretty fooked and is going to bankrupt the country sooner than later. So repealing the new law and doing nothing but going back to the old ones isn't a serious option.

[cliaz]

 

Seriously though, I have another random thought. If so many people don't trust government to get involved in Health care and health insurance... Why do we have Medicare for the elderly and Federal hospitals for veterans? I mean, we don't trust the government (which I can understand) but it's good enough for the elderly (who seriously need it) and the people who defended our country (I mean they made it through WWII but the government death panels will surely get them now).

 

IMO, regardless of whether you like Obamacare or not. The current system is pretty fooked and is going to bankrupt the country sooner than later. So repealing the new law and doing nothing but going back to the old ones isn't a serious option.

 

I think that has to do with Social Security but not sure. I blame the metric system.