Teacher Strike!

[bpwallace49]

Under Walker's plan, state employees' share of pension and health care costs would go up by an average of 8 percent.

 

Unions still could represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.

 

In exchange for bearing more costs and losing bargaining leverage, public employees were promised no furloughs or layoffs. Walker has threatened to order layoffs of up to 6,000 state workers if the measure does not pass.

 

That all seems pretty reasonable.

[gbpfan1231]

Then why is he not also going after police and firefighters unions at the same time? Why is he exempting any unions at all?

Not sure? They should be included. I am happy with what he is doing and would be happier if he included the police and firefighters.

 

The best part of this is showing the libs true colors:

 

Teachers calling in sick and leaving school to protest while the kids do not learn

 

Calling Walker "Hitler" when they ripped conservatives for name calling

 

Heard a caller on the radio say that she had a sign supporting Walker and had tons of people get in her face screaming and one person even slapped her

 

One University student went to class (which she paid for) and no teacher showed up.

 

The democrats ran away out of state - don't the libs rip on conservatives for being the party of no and not willing to talk?

 

Hypocrites I tell ya.

 

Heard a lib call in to a talk show and basically said this: "Well what about all of the teachers with masters degrees - we don't make 75,000 to 80,000 starting salary like they do in the private world and now you are making me pay for insurance and pension - I am fine with that if you guarantee me the 75,000 that they get in private industry." First off who the hell makes 75,000 to 80,000 starting in these economic times (and that is the point - during these times you need to make drastic changes). Second - typical mentality - guarantee me 75,000 - all they want is entitlements. My god these people can roll over sick days until they retire. They retire well before 60 and get a years paycheck for rolled over sick days and now complain about paying 12% towards insurance and something like 6% towards a pension.

 

Like I said before - you don't like it quit because I am guessing the line of very qualified people willing to do that job is a long one.

 

One more thing to add - they can still bargain for wages.

 

Not sure how you can defend these people?

[bpwallace49]

Not sure? They should be included. I am happy with what he is doing and would be happier if he included the police and firefighters.

 

The best part of this is showing the libs true colors:

 

Teachers calling in sick and leaving school to protest while the kids do not learn

 

Calling Walker "Hitler" when they ripped conservatives for name calling

 

Heard a caller on the radio say that she had a sign supporting Walker and had tons of people get in her face screaming and one person even slapped her

 

One University student went to class (which she paid for) and no teacher showed up.

 

The democrats ran away out of state - don't the libs rip on conservatives for being the party of no and not willing to talk?

 

Hypocrites I tell ya.

 

Heard a lib call in to a talk show and basically said this: "Well what about all of the teachers with masters degrees - we don't make 75,000 to 80,000 starting salary like they do in the private world and now you are making me pay for insurance and pension - I am fine with that if you guarantee me the 75,000 that they get in private industry." First off who the hell makes 75,000 to 80,000 starting in these economic times (and that is the point - during these times you need to make drastic changes). Second - typical mentality - guarantee me 75,000 - all they want is entitlements. My god these people can roll over sick days until they retire. They retire well before 60 and get a years paycheck for rolled over sick days and now complain about paying 12% towards insurance and something like 6% towards a pension.

 

Like I said before - you don't like it quit because I am guessing the line of very qualified people willing to do that job is a long one.

 

One more thing to add - they can still bargain for wages.

 

Not sure how you can defend these people?

 

1.) What Walker is proposing is reasonable and I dont see any reason that it shouldnt pass.

2.) Walker should include all service unions while he is at it if he is about saving money. I would like to hear why he only went after teachers and ignored the police and firefighter unions. Looks like he is cherry picking here when he could go after all unions and save more money.

3.) I read the Dems left the state because the right refused to negotiate at all after being publically asked to negotiate. Walker just basically said tough chit. My way or the highway. If it is designed to bring them to the negotiating table, then maybe a deal gets struck somehwere in the middle? I guess that means that the right is saying "No, we dont want to talk?"

4.) The wages are tied to consumer price index, which is fair as hell.

5.) It seems the biggest problem is that this will gut the power of the union and a small change in benefits in exchange for NO LAYOFFS. Thast sounds like a good deal.

6.) Where did it seem like I was defending them at all, in any possible way? You should read what I have written about teachers unions, as I am not a fan and seriously question why they are in existence at all. You are barking up the wrong tree on this one if you think I am defending their actions overall.

[gbpfan1231]

1.) What Walker is proposing is reasonable and I dont see any reason that it shouldnt pass.

2.) Walker should include all service unions while he is at it if he is about saving money. I would like to hear why he only went after teachers and ignored the police and firefighter unions. Looks like he is cherry picking here when he could go after all unions and save more money.

3.) I read the Dems left the state because the right refused to negotiate at all after being publically asked to negotiate. Walker just basically said tough chit. My way or the highway. If it is designed to bring them to the negotiating table, then maybe a deal gets struck somehwere in the middle? I guess that means that the right is saying "No, we dont want to talk?"

4.) The wages are tied to consumer price index, which is fair as hell.

5.) It seems the biggest problem is that this will gut the power of the union and a small change in benefits in exchange for NO LAYOFFS. Thast sounds like a good deal.

6.) Where did it seem like I was defending them at all, in any possible way? You should read what I have written about teachers unions, as I am not a fan and seriously question why they are in existence at all. You are barking up the wrong tree on this one if you think I am defending their actions overall.

My comment about defending them was in no way towards you - it was just a comment to the masses.

[bpwallace49]

My comment about defending them was in no way towards you - it was just a comment to the masses.

 

Ah. Understood. Sorry.

[tosberg34]

1.) What Walker is proposing is reasonable and I dont see any reason that it shouldnt pass.

2.) Walker should include all service unions while he is at it if he is about saving money. I would like to hear why he only went after teachers and ignored the police and firefighter unions. Looks like he is cherry picking here when he could go after all unions and save more money.

3.) I read the Dems left the state because the right refused to negotiate at all after being publically asked to negotiate. Walker just basically said tough chit. My way or the highway. If it is designed to bring them to the negotiating table, then maybe a deal gets struck somehwere in the middle? I guess that means that the right is saying "No, we dont want to talk?"

4.) The wages are tied to consumer price index, which is fair as hell.

5.) It seems the biggest problem is that this will gut the power of the union and a small change in benefits in exchange for NO LAYOFFS. Thast sounds like a good deal.

6.) Where did it seem like I was defending them at all, in any possible way? You should read what I have written about teachers unions, as I am not a fan and seriously question why they are in existence at all. You are barking up the wrong tree on this one if you think I am defending their actions overall.

 

1) Agree.

2) Agree - but I think it has more to do with public safety than anything else. Whose going to protect the Senators from all of the protesters if those protesters include police and fire? I'm sure they are next.

3) Who cares? This is basically reaping what you sow. When they (the left) were in power they didn't negotiate chit either - even at the Federal level with Obamacare - there was NO compromise there but suddenly they are all about compromise? I call them out on that. You lost the election and unfortunately the minority party has to suck it up until they are back in power. Running and hiding like a bunch of babies is not only embarrassing but if they had any hope that the public was behind them they can certainly forget it now. I can tell you that they are getting NO sympathy at all. Too bad, so sad.

4) Agree

5) Agree

6) Not Applicable

[gbpfan1231]

1) Agree.

2) Agree - but I think it has more to do with public safety than anything else. Whose going to protect the Senators from all of the protesters if those protesters include police and fire? I'm sure they are next.

3) Who cares? This is basically reaping what you sow. When they (the left) were in power they didn't negotiate chit either - even at the Federal level with Obamacare - there was NO compromise there but suddenly they are all about compromise? I call them out on that. You lost the election and unfortunately the minority party has to suck it up until they are back in power. Running and hiding like a bunch of babies is not only embarrassing but if they had any hope that the public was behind them they can certainly forget it now. I can tell you that they are getting NO sympathy at all. Too bad, so sad.

4) Agree

5) Agree

6) Not Applicable

These are the same people who tried to pass in a new contract in like 24 hours in between the time Walker was elected and actually took office. Politicians suck ass!!!!

[Chavez]

That all seems pretty reasonable.

It IS reasonable.

 

Of course, the key is the ability/threat to collectively bargain.

 

 

What it REALLY is (IM always-HO) is Walker is grandstanding to bust the state union, and get the attention of the RNC for a presidential run, based on his (perceived) ability to bust federal unions.

 

And once you bust the federal unions, the private sector doesn't have to sweat unionization ever again. The thought of that is VERY attractive to them. It should scare the hell out of anyone who is not in the top 5% (or possibly even 1%) of earners.

 

The race to the bottom with SE Asia has begun. Problem is they have a TREMENDOUS head start, but we won't lose for lack of trying.

[bpwallace49]

1) Agree.

2) Agree - but I think it has more to do with public safety than anything else. Whose going to protect the Senators from all of the protesters if those protesters include police and fire? I'm sure they are next.

3) Who cares? This is basically reaping what you sow. When they (the left) were in power they didn't negotiate chit either - even at the Federal level with Obamacare - there was NO compromise there but suddenly they are all about compromise? I call them out on that. You lost the election and unfortunately the minority party has to suck it up until they are back in power. Running and hiding like a bunch of babies is not only embarrassing but if they had any hope that the public was behind them they can certainly forget it now. I can tell you that they are getting NO sympathy at all. Too bad, so sad.

4) Agree

5) Agree

6) Not Applicable

 

2- Grow a pair of balls tosberg . . .either unions are the debbil or they arent. Either Walker wants to save money by going after unions, or he doesnt. Right now he is cherry picking. Do em all or dont do em at all. This is very selective. He could done them all and STILL called in the national Guard. he took a cowardly way out on this.

3- Are you really trying to use a federal issue and adapt it to the state level? really? This really isnt like the right on a federal level saying "do what we want or we wont play". What I have read the unions are desperate to work a compromise and have said "lets talk! we WILL work with you." and Walker is saying F off. The dems left the state to stall and buy time. It is the state equivalent of constant filibusters on the federal level (what has happened the last 2 years in congress BTW) The question that needs to be asked is this REALLY the best way to go about things when the same result can be gained without having such a huge backlash with a little talking to the unions. Hell, Walker has the votes, what does it hurt to sit down and mend fences?

[Yukon Cornelius]

It IS reasonable.

 

Of course, the key is the ability/threat to collectively bargain.

 

 

What it REALLY is (IM always-HO) is Walker is grandstanding to bust the state union, and get the attention of the RNC for a presidential run, based on his (perceived) ability to bust federal unions.

This.... is just the beginning

[Yukon Cornelius]

.

3- Are you really trying to use a federal issue and adapt it to the state level? really? This really isnt like the right on a federal level saying "do what we want or we wont play". What I have read the unions are desperate to work a compromise and have said "lets talk! we WILL work with you." and Walker is saying F off. The dems left the state to stall and buy time. It is the state equivalent of constant filibusters on the federal level (what has happened the last 2 years in congress BTW) The question that needs to be asked is this REALLY the best way to go about things when the same result can be gained without having such a huge backlash with a little talking to the unions. Hell, Walker has the votes, what does it hurt to sit down and mend fences?

He has been told not to talk....

[redrumjuice]

They should fire them ALL. The students would be better off in the long run, and they can re-hire competent people.

 

They have to pick their battles, start with teachers, park rangers and prison guards. The rest come next.

 

Asked to pay 6% towards your pension and 8% towards your healthcare and they strike?

 

This is the reason the states with massive public unions are going down the schitter. Why do we need public unions anyway?

[Yukon Cornelius]

They should fire them ALL. The students would be better off in the long run, and they can re-hire competent people.

 

They have to pick their battles, start with teachers, park rangers and prison guards. The rest come next.

 

Asked to pay 6% towards your pension and 8% towards your healthcare and they strike?

 

This is the reason the states with massive public unions are going down the schitter. Why do we need public unions anyway?

jebus u is dum. sconny does not want arkansas education they want real education

 

Ohio will be next to try this

[SayItAintSoJoe]

Then why is he not also going after police and firefighters unions at the same time? Why is he exempting any unions at all?

 

Because those unions backed the governor during the last election.

[redrumjuice]

sconny does not want arkansas education they want real education

 

OK!

 

Public gov't teachers BURN!!!!!! Sorry, bye bye!

[Big Country]

Heard a lib call in to a talk show and basically said this: "Well what about all of the teachers with masters degrees - we don't make 75,000 to 80,000 starting salary like they do in the private world and now you are making me pay for insurance and pension - I am fine with that if you guarantee me the 75,000 that they get in private industry." First off who the hell makes 75,000 to 80,000 starting in these economic times (and that is the point - during these times you need to make drastic changes). Second - typical mentality - guarantee me 75,000 - all they want is entitlements. My god these people can roll over sick days until they retire. They retire well before 60 and get a years paycheck for rolled over sick days and now complain about paying 12% towards insurance and something like 6% towards a pension.

 

Get a degree in a field that commands a salary in that range (MBA, JD, etc.) and I'm sure it'd be no problem finding that kind of salary. Get a degree in a field that does not command that kind of salary (Masters in Education, Philosophy, Women's Studies, etc.) and of course you wont get that kind of salary.

[TimC]

The American dream used to be a home and 2 cars...now it's doing anything to get your kids out of public schools and into private schools. We all chip in so my neice can go to the local Catholic school. She went one year of kindergarten in public and started 1st grade this year. For half the price per student, you get ten times the education. And we won't have to worry about her having a tramp stamp and pregnant at 11 either. My sister says it is really nice to go to the school events where the parents actually show up and care.

Edited February 18, 2011 by TimC

[gbpfan1231]

Get a degree in a field that commands a salary in that range (MBA, JD, etc.) and I'm sure it'd be no problem finding that kind of salary. Get a degree in a field that does not command that kind of salary (Masters in Education, Philosophy, Women's Studies, etc.) and of course you wont get that kind of salary.

Well that was kind of the point. The dude basically said on the radio that if they are going to make me pay more for my insurance then they should HAVE to give me 75,000 salary because other people get that - nothing to do with what type of masters or what job or even the quality of employee it may have been. That is kind of the point - they want the entitlements. They would rather have layoffs and people let go so they don't have to pay 5.8% to their OWN pension. They figure the lowest seniority people will be the people laid off and for the people in the union with seniority they are OK with that because it saves them the 3-5k they now have to contribute.

[bpwallace49]

Well that was kind of the point. The dude basically said on the radio that if they are going to make me pay more for my insurance then they should HAVE to give me 75,000 salary because other people get that - nothing to do with what type of masters or what job or even the quality of employee it may have been. That is kind of the point - they want the entitlements. They would rather have layoffs and people let go so they don't have to pay 5.8% to their OWN pension. They figure the lowest seniority people will be the people laid off and for the people in the union with seniority they are OK with that because it saves them the 3-5k they now have to contribute.

 

On the flip side gbpfan, look at it this way. There has been this career field for as long as you have been alive. These benefits ahve been there, and you have been working "within the system" that has been blessed by elected reps and taxpayers for decades. Now all of a sudden "Ooops! Do over! Tough chit!" Wouldnt you be upset? Especially if one career field was cherry picked out? (I also saw that fire fighters and police unions have been marching in support of the teachers as well, even though they have been exempted for some bizarre reason)

 

Not saying right or wrong that it was established at all, but teh fact that people have been working with this system for YEARS and and now all of a sudden it is written away? Can you blame them for being upset?

 

Everyone thinks that being a teacher is cushy job and that they are somehow "entitled". I knwo I sure wouldnt want some of their jobs for what they get paid.

[gbpfan1231]

On the flip side gbpfan, look at it this way. There has been this career field for as long as you have been alive. These benefits ahve been there, and you have been working "within the system" that has been blessed by elected reps and taxpayers for decades. Now all of a sudden "Ooops! Do over! Tough chit!" Wouldnt you be upset? Especially if one career field was cherry picked out? (I also saw that fire fighters and police unions have been marching in support of the teachers as well, even though they have been exempted for some bizarre reason)

 

Not saying right or wrong that it was established at all, but teh fact that people have been working with this system for YEARS and and now all of a sudden it is written away? Can you blame them for being upset?

 

Everyone thinks that being a teacher is cushy job and that they are somehow "entitled". I knwo I sure wouldnt want some of their jobs for what they get paid.

Agree with a lot of what you say and also don't agree one bit with the cherry picking.

 

Yes they have been working in the system for YEARS but maybe the system was broken for YEARS and now this YEAR we have issues with the state being broke.

 

Hey for YEARS I have worked in an accounting department that had 8 people. I am now doing more work than I used to do and we have 4 people and guess what - I am paying more for my insurance now than I was 5 years ago. Crap happens and you deal with it. I have had pay freezes but I don't go outside and protest because I realize that I am lucky enough to still have a job and be one of the 4 people working.

[TimC]

Hey gbp, why don't you just tell your customers they have to pay more and take it from them?

[bpwallace49]

Agree with a lot of what you say and also don't agree one bit with the cherry picking.

 

Yes they have been working in the system for YEARS but maybe the system was broken for YEARS and now this YEAR we have issues with the state being broke.

 

Hey for YEARS I have worked in an accounting department that had 8 people. I am now doing more work than I used to do and we have 4 people and guess what - I am paying more for my insurance now than I was 5 years ago. Crap happens and you deal with it. I have had pay freezes but I don't go outside and protest because I realize that I am lucky enough to still have a job and be one of the 4 people working.

 

Hey, I dont disagree that this stuff needs to be done. I do have an issue with Walker cherry picking. I have repeatedly said how fair the proposals are.

 

Five unions are specifically untouched by the bill, including four - the Wisconsin State Troopers, the Milwaukee Police and Firefighters Associations, and the West Allis Professional Police - that endorsed Walker in the recent election, reports WISC.

 

So Man up walker. If unions are the problem, then at least have the integrity to do so across the board. Not just going after the ones that didnt endorse you. I would respect him a lot more for making tough choices if he did that.

[MikesVikes]

Looks like about 850-900 Sconnies on the list averaging 120K/year. That is 108 million for the major players in the Wisconsin education system.

 

In 2009, the Packers ranked #9 in the NFL for player salaries. $113,959,603 for 59 players. Maybe the Packers should be running the Wisconsin education system.

 

link

Edited February 18, 2011 by MikesVikes

[Azazello1313]

on a side note....does anyone else wonder whether all these teachers not showing up for school is the greatest idea for them from a PR standpoint? I don't see how it really gets the public on their side. sorta seems, to me at least, that it plays into the hands of those who are trying to paint you as selfish, more concerned about protecting the pension the state can't afford than teaching, etc.

[TimC]

Looking at the video on TV. Are there any black people in Wisconsin? Or anyone with even somewhat of a tan, heck even a spray-on tan? Whitest people I've ever seen. I could clear out that State Capital in 5 minutes by asking those teachers about Martin Luther King. I've got a feeling they've never seen or heard of black people before. Or better yet, show up with a black person and watch them freak out. I do think I saw a Mexican or an Indian in the crowd though. I really can't tell the difference.