bushwacked Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I haven't read everything in the preceeding posts but our kids are homeschooled. Like muck, I think the "socialization" theme overblown. Personally, I think it's a real convenient whipping boy for gov't schools and their unions to use against homeschoolers. You have to wonder, when the gov't schools get embarassed at spelling bees and math field days. Another thing is that teachers can indoctrinate just like parents do (I remember I learned as FACT that the constitution was a "living document" in fourth grade. Not that it was one school of thought, but that it WAS. You also have earth day and a bunch of other questionable crap that could be used as much for political indoctrination as for education.) Because of the socialization issue though, we have our kids enrolled in a weekly co-op, as well as other outside art(s) classes. My kids are/were in Daisys (precursor to brownies for little girls) and have plenty of interaction with the kids in our neighborhood. They also have tons of cousins. Big John has met my kids, FWIW, and he can feel free to opine if he'd like. The bottom line is, homeschooling in and of itself isn't lacking in anything. If the kids are lacking in social graces and adapting mechanisms, it's probably not as much to do with being home schooled as it is with other aspects of their lives. Maybe, it seems like you are overemphasizing indoctrination and poor quality of education in a fairly broad brush general matter though. Methinks either group education or home schooling education could be more beneficial, but that is dependent on numerous factors. However, it's hard for me to buy into the insinuation where the massive hours of social interaction a young boy or girl gets in a group education setting is just a minor influence on their development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The way I figure it, my kids' schools and I will serve as complements in my children's education. I don't have the time, patience or talent to be the sole provider of my child's education. If other parents have these abilities, more power to them. (For the record, I pretty much hated about 99 of every 100 minutes of my own education until I got into college. If it seems that going to school is thwarting my kids' ability or love of learning or is just sucking the joy of life out of them, then I might consider pulling them from school. But I do think there is something to be said for kids learning how to get by on their own in various situations that I could not replicate in a home environment.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 You have to wonder, when the gov't schools get embarassed at spelling bees and math field days. I'd like to see controlled studies on the career outcomes for home-schooled kids vs school-educated kids. While the math stuff is useful, I think using performance at spelling bees as some sort of comparison measure is just stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) I'd like to see controlled studies on the career outcomes for home-schooled kids vs school-educated kids. While the math stuff is useful, I think using performance at spelling bees as some sort of comparison measure is just stupid. I remember losing in the finals of a spelling bee when I was still in grade school on the word "picturesque;" the girl who won by spelling correctly after me got the word "children." ETA: Should we use Yukon as a measure? Edited March 8, 2011 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I remember losing in the finals of a spelling bee when I was still in grade school on the word "picturesque;" the girl who won by spelling correctly after me got the word "children." ETA: Should we use Yukon as a measure? He'd kick yer ass at a math bee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I used to work with a guy that was homeschooled. He got high enough grades to get a scholarship to college. He then drank and partied his way out of school in his first year. Same thing happened to some of kids I knew that went to public school though so I suppose it just depends on the people involved. I guess I don't care as much about younger kids, but I couldn't picture a high school age kid being home schooled. Just seems like I'd rather have them socially "sink or swim" so to speak while they are still living with me. Instead of providing everything only to have them turn 18 and leave for college without ever having to make a lot of friends and the social decisions that go along with it. Maybe if they played a lot of sports while being home schooled (not sure if you can just play on the football team if you don't go to school there but I imagine there are some programs like this) it would help to mitigate the socialization issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 great replies and food for thought here, appreciate it..my sisters kids are really sweet and happy kids, I guess I was just thinking all the fun I had in public school, UIL tourneys, football games, track meets, and prom, etc...etc...also I know they are highly religious and dont want their kids exposed to anything that goes against their faith, just gotta hope the kids dont go hog wild when they do get out in the world once they reach college, but I know my sis always says she would rather err on the side of caution, I'm sure all will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I'd like to see controlled studies on the career outcomes for home-schooled kids vs school-educated kids. While the math stuff is useful, I think using performance at spelling bees as some sort of comparison measure is just stupid. Oh, I'm not saying it's proof of anything, but that it's an embarassment to gov't schools when this happens so consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I have an autistic child, so home schooling was never an option. He needs more social interaction as part of his therapy. If I didnt have an autistic child and didnt live in one of the best school districts in the state, then I would definitely consider home schooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 I have an autistic child, so home schooling was never an option. He needs more social interaction as part of his therapy. If I didnt have an autistic child and didnt live in one of the best school districts in the state, then I would definitely consider home schooling. thats another deal of this BP, they do have a son that is on the spectrum, he was diagnosed several yrs ago, never could a real straight answer from her (me and my other sis talk about this often) but I think she said he was autistic or maybe asbergers? They are absolutley terrified about putting him in a public school, worried he will be made fun of, I dont think that would happen, but what do I know?...not sure what to think about all of this; he of course has 4 other siblings + community of other kids that are home schooled like he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 thats another deal of this BP, they do have a son that is on the spectrum, he was diagnosed several yrs ago, never could a real straight answer from her (me and my other sis talk about this often) but I think she said he was autistic or maybe asbergers? They are absolutley terrified about putting him in a public school, worried he will be made fun of, I dont think that would happen, but what do I know?...not sure what to think about all of this; he of course has 4 other siblings + community of other kids that are home schooled like he is The special services that autistic/asperger kids recieve in school just cannot be matched by home schooling, IMO. The integration with other kids, the opportunity to deal with change and be challenged by teachers are all benefits of "regular" schooling. Kid son the spectrum already have social issues, so further segregation will only hinder that process to when he/she has to eventually live on their own. SOOOO many gains can be made through early intervetion in shcools with social workers and special needs teachers that cannot be replicated at home, or even later in life. Along with some special social groups at school, I had my son in several different therapies that were very beneficial to him specifically outside of school. Even with all that, autism is challenging to deal with. I cannot begin to think of how to home school my son, and my wife graduated top of her class in college for early childhood education (but is a stay at home mom). Kids are cruel no matter what, and bullies are always in schools. By keeping a clsoe relationship with the school admins, some of this can be avoided, but never eliminated. Depending on the school size, kids can grow up with autistic kids, and even become very protective of them, which severely cuts down on bullying. How old is the autistic child again? Is he in any early intervention therapies right now? If the parents are very protective and are terrified of bullying, then they will be horrible home schoolers to an autistic child. especially with certain concepts, kids need to be challenged in how to "think around the corners" of an autistic mind. If parents are too protective, then they never challenged them enough to succeed, which ends up HURTING their academic abilities every year it continues. I moved to the community I live in SPECIFICALLY for the special services my son receives. It has helped him tremendously (and he also has a high-function diagnosis) so he is doing VERY well academically, and the social/emotional issues are getting much better. There is no way that my wife and I could have replicated the amazing services my son has received on our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 wow BP, thnx so much for insight--his birthday is 7-11-2000, so he will be 11 this summer, only kid (or adult) I know of that can put together Lego sets without the manual, just by looking at the box:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I have a cousin who went to a very good public high school and lived what I would consider the typical overscheduled suburban childhood existence. He played on a travel hockey team even though he is undersized, and was coached heavily by my uncle who also played HS and college hockey. Most of our family believe my uncle pressured him into playing. My uncle's wife is the controlling type, and was a fixture at all of Junior's games, video camera in hand, cheering in her high-pitched cackle. If you were at a family gathering and asked him a question, he'd start to answer and his mom would finish. You guys probably all know that travel sports are extremely rigorous and demand a lot of time and dedication from the kids and parents. The family traveled thousands of miles for games and tournaments over the years. I'm pretty sure he played 12 months out of the year. He suffered from IBS during most of high school. My cousin was also a high achiever academically and was accepted to Penn State. At his graduation party, Mom had four thick scrapbooks displayed on a table, one for each year of high school. On the first page of each scrapbook was a handwritten letter from Mom: "Well Johnny, you're a junior now, I can't believe how time flies...". The scrapbooks were meticulously prepared, with all the typical graphics and captions to accompany each snapshot. Every moment of the kid's life was documented. The plan was for him to go into engineering just like his dad. My uncle is a very successful electrical engineer, considered an expert in his field and extensively published. First semester, he played WoW on his computer about 80 hours a week and made few friends. He decided not to play hockey. His mom was calling him daily to remind him he had to go to class. He flunked out before the first semester ended and is currently living back home, working at an amusement park. He struggles with depression. My point is that home schooled or not, 99% of it is parenting. Get involved in their education, but let them be friggin' kids too. They have to be allowed to fail once in a while so they learn perseverance, and eventually they have to be allowed to make their own decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 thnx Matt for the story, I know a few folks like that--I always worry about if Im raising my kids right, I sure hope so but I guess time will tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Maybe this would be helpful for people to know about, especially those with kids, nieces or nephews with autism / ausbergers (sp?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 it certainly is, a center is over 400 miles away from her though... sounds like a great program too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 They look like normal well-behaved kids. Are you sure they were WV's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 wow BP, thnx so much for insight--his birthday is 7-11-2000, so he will be 11 this summer, only kid (or adult) I know of that can put together Lego sets without the manual, just by looking at the box:) My son is only a few months younger, and is just as into legos. Be careful on snazzy websites on people that can "cure" autism through fish oil and gluten free diets. Part of the frustration of autism is not knowing what exactly can cause it, which means you dont know how to fix it. Also every single child is different on the spectrum and reacts differently to treatmnet, thereapy, and dietary changes. So there is no "silver bullet cure" or one size fits all solution. What works for one, may be detrimental to another. Unfortunately this leaves trial and error to discover what will work best for a child on the spectrum. All I know is my wife and I read a LOT to stay up to date, shell out a small fortune every year (cause a lot of autism therapies arent covered by insurance in Illinois ) and do a lot of additional work with his teachers and with him at home outside of school. I would never, ever, ever, think that I could home school my autistic son with all the additional support he gets through school. Thinking that you can without specialized help is arrogance, and could be harmful to your child's development. That being said, if my son wasnt autistic, I would be all over home schooling my kids, and applaud those that do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 great BP!! a shame that insurance doesnt cover many of the needed services though:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Be careful on snazzy websites on people that can "cure" autism through fish oil and gluten free diets. Part of the frustration of autism is not knowing what exactly can cause it, which means you dont know how to fix it. Also every single child is different on the spectrum and reacts differently to treatmnet, thereapy, and dietary changes. So there is no "silver bullet cure" or one size fits all solution. What works for one, may be detrimental to another. Unfortunately this leaves trial and error to discover what will work best for a child on the spectrum. For the record, regarding the link I listed above (which BPW dismisses), a friend of mine owns/runs the store here in KC; he bought a franchise after seeing the incredible progress this approach had on his son w/ arsbergers (sp?) made and the similarly huge strides others with autistic kids made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 For the record, regarding the link I listed above (which BPW dismisses), a friend of mine owns/runs the store here in KC; he bought a franchise after seeing the incredible progress this approach had on his son w/ arsbergers (sp?) made and the similarly huge strides others with autistic kids made. Muck, I was in no way discouraging your site. That is actually very well thought out and one of the better programs. I want to be officially on record for that, OK? I should have made that clear in my earlier post. I apologize for that. It is OTHER sites that DONT have that kind of academic researching and references that you need to avoid. Soooo many parents look for the "silver bullet" that will cure their kids, and can be desperate to believe anything at all. Jenny McCarthy is an example of this, as well as the whole vaccination scandal with autism. Every kid is different and will react to different therapies and stimuli in a different way. There is no one size fits all. My son takes 4 supplemnets daily through a holistic pharmacy that has done wonders in combination with direct behavioral therapies. I know of other kids where gluten free diets have worked. At the end of the day, all this is shot in the dark trial and error for every individual case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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