In Wisconsin News Today

[bpwallace49]

So has your idol Barry Hussein taken a cut? What a silly argument. The reason we are in this boat sure as hell isn't because of what politicians make.

 

Sure I would love to see them work for free and pay full boat for all of thier benefits. We all know that won't happen. So please quit with this silly discussion about politicians taking cuts.

 

Actually the President is in favor of raising taxes on the upper % which would include him soooo . . .

 

It is very specifically about Scott Walker and his position that everyone needs to cut . . except he isnt taking part.

[gbpfan1231]

Actually the President is in favor of raising taxes on the upper % which would include him soooo . . .

 

It is very specifically about Scott Walker and his position that everyone needs to cut . . except he isnt taking part.

I remember discussions about cuttiing spending and when people had ideas YOU were quick to point out that they were small and we should be looking at the big ticket items not the small items or low hanging fruit - but you think Walker should take a cut in pay - does that not somewhat go against what you said before? maybe Walker is just going for the big things first and later will take a cut or not take a raise. Isn't this what you have suggested in the past?

 

On the other hand I do think Walker should take a cut in pay or at the very least freeze his pay while he is Governor. Walker taking a cut will do nothing to put Wisconsin back on track but it sure would seem like the right thing to do.

[WaterMan]

Actually the President is in favor of raising taxes on the upper % which would include him soooo . . .

 

It is very specifically about Scott Walker and his position that everyone needs to cut . . except he isnt taking part.

 

 

 

[gbpfan1231]

I remember discussions about cuttiing spending and when people had ideas YOU were quick to point out that they were small and we should be looking at the big ticket items not the small items or low hanging fruit - but you think Walker should take a cut in pay - does that not somewhat go against what you said before? maybe Walker is just going for the big things first and later will take a cut or not take a raise. Isn't this what you have suggested in the past?

 

On the other hand I do think Walker should take a cut in pay or at the very least freeze his pay while he is Governor. Walker taking a cut will do nothing to put Wisconsin back on track but it sure would seem like the right thing to do.

Actually if I rethink this I am thinking Walker deserves a raise - he is getting paid the same as Doyle but he is fixing things that Doyle has messed up. He deserves to get all the money he is making while being called Hitler and having death threats and all the other nice things that Libs are doing (while at the same time complaining if the right says the same things).

 

Keep it up Walker and fix the mess.

[tosberg34]

Actually if I rethink this I am thinking Walker deserves a raise - he is getting paid the same as Doyle but he is fixing things that Doyle has messed up. He deserves to get all the money he is making while being called Hitler and having death threats and all the other nice things that Libs are doing (while at the same time complaining if the right says the same things).

 

Keep it up Walker and fix the mess.

 

Hey, that's right. Success should be rewarded, not penalized. However, my guess is that Judge Sumi would try and block that as well.

Edited July 4, 2011 by tosberg34

[gbpfan1231]

Actually the President is in favor of raising taxes on the upper % which would include him soooo . . .

 

It is very specifically about Scott Walker and his position that everyone needs to cut . . except he isnt taking part.

Walker is not the problem.

 

I think you are in management at a golf club right? Let's just say that the club employs 5 golf pros to teach lessons - in this bad economy people started to cut back on golf lessons so there are only enough lessons to maybe fill up 3.5 golf pros - are you taking a cut in YOUR pay to still keep the 5 pros employed? I doubt it.

 

Have you ever voluntarily taken a cut in pay? In Wisconsin the public employee system is broke and a lot has to to do with what the collective bargaining has allowed as far as pay/benes/pension - Walker or whoever the governor is is not the problem.

 

Do I think Walker should take a cut in pay? Yes it would be the right thing to do from a public relations perspective but from a job perspective I don't think he is/was the problem.

[Ursa Majoris]

FWIW, I don't think any politician is paid the going rate for the responsibility. $400k for the most powerful man in the world? $200k for the boss of an entire state?

 

In an extremely simplistic and defiance-of-reality sense, there is a lot to be said for only allowing the very wealthy to be elected, since it ought to be more difficult to corrupt them. What would they care about the sinecure a lobbyist offered them after their political career was over?

[SEC=UGA]

Sure so long as you pay me the national average salary of people with the same education. That would sound great to me.

 

Wow I thought I had it bad. God it must suck to be as bent as you.

 

Done - Median Income Bachelors Degree, $46 K

 

Teachers in WI - $46 K or $48K

 

Now, you gonna shut yer hole and go back to work?

Edited July 5, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[Ground Chuck]

This

Done - Median Income Bachelors Degree, $46 K

 

Teachers in WI - $46 K or $48K

 

Now, you gonna shut yer hole and go back to work?

 

How about you shutting yours?

[bushwacked]

Done - Median Income Bachelors Degree, $46 K

 

 

Um....I see 55K for males and 45K for females between the ages of 25 and 34.

Edited July 5, 2011 by bushwacked

[SEC=UGA]

This

 

How about you shutting yours?

 

Ohhhh, I see what yer getting at... You're sayin that one with a masters in mathematics is much better off working as an actuary than as a math teacher, who knew!?!?

 

I find the next pargraph in yur article compelling... It is below.

 

Compensation varies tremendously, based on career path, for many of the 30 degrees we looked at. An actuary with a master's in mathematics can hit a median midcareer pay of $157,000. But a high school teacher with the same degree may pull in a sight less robust $57,800.

 

Concentration within the degree makes a difference as well. M.B.A.s who focused on finance had median salaries of $124,000, while those in accounting took home only $72,500. "Not all M.B.A.s are created equal," says Payscale's Lee.

 

And then if you just read the second to last last paragraph of your article I'm sure you're upset about that, too, right?

The worst master's degrees pit career satisfaction against financial rewards. Getting a master's in education or social work (both rank near the bottom) can be gratifying, but costly. If you are still determined to take that route--and saddle yourself with $60,000 or more in debt at a private university--don't quit your day job. Median midcareer pay for both degrees is under $60,000, and employment growth is expected to be limited.

 

You know, it is kinda funny to me, you can sit there and complain about your pay when the national average for one with a masters degree is $62,500 and one with a masters in education is , well, according to your article, "just under $60K"... So, you don't think that people in the other positions making an average of $62,500 if told by their boss, "Hey, you now work 180 days a year and get the summers off ... but I'm gonna knock your pay down to $59,000 and give you a pension and healthcare at a cheaper rate than what you're paying now" that they would get all pissy?

[caddyman]

Ohhhh, I see what yer getting at... You're sayin that one with a masters in mathematics is much better off working as an actuary than as a math teacher, who knew!?!?

 

I find the next pargraph in yur article compelling... It is below.

 

 

 

And then if you just read the second to last last paragraph of your article I'm sure you're upset about that, too, right?

 

 

You know, it is kinda funny to me, you can sit there and complain about your pay when the national average for one with a masters degree is $62,500 and one with a masters in education is , well, according to your article, "just under $60K"... So, you don't think that people in the other positions making an average of $62,500 if told by their boss, "Hey, you now work 180 days a year and get the summers off ... but I'm gonna knock your pay down to $59,000 and give you a pension and healthcare at a cheaper rate than what you're paying now" that they would get all pissy?

 

Stop...just stop. These guys just don't get it. They just think there is an unlimited pool of money. Oh yea...the country and states have their issues, but don't touch my pot of money. Why don't you just raise taxes to make sure I can have the sweet deal I have? See below for some facts that I am sure GC and his union thug supporters don't want the public to know.

 

By ROBERT M. COSTRELL

The showdown in Wisconsin over fringe benefits for public employees boils down to one number: 74.2. That's how many cents the public pays Milwaukee public-school teachers and other employees for retirement and health benefits for every dollar they receive in salary. The corresponding rate for employees of private firms is 24.3 cents.

 

Gov. Scott Walker's proposal would bring public-employee benefits closer in line with those of workers in the private sector. And to prevent benefits from reaching sky-high levels in the future, he wants to restrict collective-bargaining rights. The average Milwaukee public-school teacher salary is $56,500, but with benefits the total package is $100,005, according to the manager of financial planning for Milwaukee public schools. When I showed these figures to a friend, she asked me a simple question: "How can fringe benefits be nearly as much as salary?" The answers can be found by unpacking the numbers in the district's budget for this fiscal year:

 

•Social Security and Medicare. The employer cost is 7.65% of wages, the same as in the private sector.

 

State Pension. Teachers belong to the Wisconsin state pension plan. That plan requires a 6.8% employer contribution and 6.2% from the employee. However, according to the collective-bargaining agreement in place since 1996, the district pays the employees' share as well, for a total of 13%.

 

•Teachers' Supplemental Pension. In addition to the state pension, Milwaukee public-school teachers receive an additional pension under a 1982 collective-bargaining agreement. The district contributes an additional 4.2% of teacher salaries to cover this second pension. Teachers contribute nothing.

 

•Classified Pension. Most other school employees belong to the city's pension system instead of the state plan. The city plan is less expensive but here, too, according to the collective-bargaining agreement, the district pays the employees' 5.5% share.

 

Overall, for teachers and other employees, the district's contributions for pensions and Social Security total 22.6 cents for each dollar of salary. The corresponding figure for private industry is 13.4 cents. The divergence is greater yet for health insurance:

 

•Health care for current employees. Under the current collective- bargaining agreements, the school district pays the entire premium for medical and vision benefits, and over half the cost of dental coverage. These plans are extremely expensive.

 

This is partly because of Wisconsin's unique arrangement under which the teachers union is the sponsor of the group health-insurance plans. Not surprisingly, benefits are generous. The district's contributions for health insurance of active employees total 38.8% of wages. For private-sector workers nationwide, the average is 10.7%.

 

Health insurance for retirees. This benefit is rarely offered any more in private companies, and it can be quite costly. This is especially the case for teachers in many states, because the eligibility rules of their pension plans often induce them to retire in their 50s, and Medicare does not kick in until age 65. Milwaukee's plan covers the entire premium in effect at retirement, and retirees cover only the growth in premiums after they retire.

 

As is commonly the case, the school district's retiree health plan has not been prefunded. It has been pay-as-you-go. This has been a disaster waiting to happen, as retirees grow in number and live longer, and active employment shrinks in districts such as Milwaukee.

 

For fiscal year 2011, retiree enrollment in the district health plan is 36.4% of the total. In addition to the costs of these retirees' benefits, Milwaukee is, to its credit, belatedly starting to prefund the benefits of future school retirees. In all, retiree health-insurance contributions are estimated at 12.1% of salaries (of which 1.5% is prefunded).

 

Overall, the school district's contributions to health insurance for employees and retirees total about 50.9 cents on top of every dollar paid in wages. Together with pension and Social Security contributions, plus a few small items, one can see how the total cost of fringe benefits reaches 74.2%.

 

What these numbers ultimately prove is the excessive power of collective bargaining. The teachers' main pension plan is set by the state legislature, but under the pressure of local bargaining, the employees' contribution is often pushed onto the taxpayers. In addition, collective bargaining led the Milwaukee public school district to add a supplemental pension plan—again with no employee contribution. Finally, the employees' contribution (or lack thereof) to the cost of health insurance is also collectively bargained.

 

As the costs of pensions and insurance escalate, the governor's proposal to restrict collective bargaining to salaries—not benefits—seems entirely reasonable.

 

Mr. Costrell is professor of education reform and economics at the University of Arkansas.

[WaterMan]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/23/9...with-David-Koch

 

Why wasn't Mr. Koch elected as Governor? They both wanted the same thing: freedom from the shackles of the teachers from WI.

[SEC=UGA]

Um....I see 55K for males and 45K for females between the ages of 25 and 34.

 

Ummm... Dude, it's the best I could do. THere is no repository with better info that was quickly accessible by google in the first 3 pages of my search. Find information that proves that teachers are woefully underpaid compared to others who hold a bachelors degree and I'll gladly give you credit for disproving my theory that educators are not underpaid.

 

I will add one codicil to that, also, break it down into an hourly wage versus the national average, of lets say, 48 weeks at 40 hours per week.

Edited July 5, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[gbpfan1231]

Stop...just stop. These guys just don't get it. They just think there is an unlimited pool of money. Oh yea...the country and states have their issues, but don't touch my pot of money. Why don't you just raise taxes to make sure I can have the sweet deal I have? See below for some facts that I am sure GC and his union thug supporters don't want the public to know.

 

By ROBERT M. COSTRELL

The showdown in Wisconsin over fringe benefits for public employees boils down to one number: 74.2. That's how many cents the public pays Milwaukee public-school teachers and other employees for retirement and health benefits for every dollar they receive in salary. The corresponding rate for employees of private firms is 24.3 cents.

 

Gov. Scott Walker's proposal would bring public-employee benefits closer in line with those of workers in the private sector. And to prevent benefits from reaching sky-high levels in the future, he wants to restrict collective-bargaining rights. The average Milwaukee public-school teacher salary is $56,500, but with benefits the total package is $100,005, according to the manager of financial planning for Milwaukee public schools. When I showed these figures to a friend, she asked me a simple question: "How can fringe benefits be nearly as much as salary?" The answers can be found by unpacking the numbers in the district's budget for this fiscal year:

 

•Social Security and Medicare. The employer cost is 7.65% of wages, the same as in the private sector.

 

State Pension. Teachers belong to the Wisconsin state pension plan. That plan requires a 6.8% employer contribution and 6.2% from the employee. However, according to the collective-bargaining agreement in place since 1996, the district pays the employees' share as well, for a total of 13%.

 

•Teachers' Supplemental Pension. In addition to the state pension, Milwaukee public-school teachers receive an additional pension under a 1982 collective-bargaining agreement. The district contributes an additional 4.2% of teacher salaries to cover this second pension. Teachers contribute nothing.

 

•Classified Pension. Most other school employees belong to the city's pension system instead of the state plan. The city plan is less expensive but here, too, according to the collective-bargaining agreement, the district pays the employees' 5.5% share.

 

Overall, for teachers and other employees, the district's contributions for pensions and Social Security total 22.6 cents for each dollar of salary. The corresponding figure for private industry is 13.4 cents. The divergence is greater yet for health insurance:

 

•Health care for current employees. Under the current collective- bargaining agreements, the school district pays the entire premium for medical and vision benefits, and over half the cost of dental coverage. These plans are extremely expensive.

 

This is partly because of Wisconsin's unique arrangement under which the teachers union is the sponsor of the group health-insurance plans. Not surprisingly, benefits are generous. The district's contributions for health insurance of active employees total 38.8% of wages. For private-sector workers nationwide, the average is 10.7%.

 

Health insurance for retirees. This benefit is rarely offered any more in private companies, and it can be quite costly. This is especially the case for teachers in many states, because the eligibility rules of their pension plans often induce them to retire in their 50s, and Medicare does not kick in until age 65. Milwaukee's plan covers the entire premium in effect at retirement, and retirees cover only the growth in premiums after they retire.

 

As is commonly the case, the school district's retiree health plan has not been prefunded. It has been pay-as-you-go. This has been a disaster waiting to happen, as retirees grow in number and live longer, and active employment shrinks in districts such as Milwaukee.

 

For fiscal year 2011, retiree enrollment in the district health plan is 36.4% of the total. In addition to the costs of these retirees' benefits, Milwaukee is, to its credit, belatedly starting to prefund the benefits of future school retirees. In all, retiree health-insurance contributions are estimated at 12.1% of salaries (of which 1.5% is prefunded).

 

Overall, the school district's contributions to health insurance for employees and retirees total about 50.9 cents on top of every dollar paid in wages. Together with pension and Social Security contributions, plus a few small items, one can see how the total cost of fringe benefits reaches 74.2%.

 

What these numbers ultimately prove is the excessive power of collective bargaining. The teachers' main pension plan is set by the state legislature, but under the pressure of local bargaining, the employees' contribution is often pushed onto the taxpayers. In addition, collective bargaining led the Milwaukee public school district to add a supplemental pension plan—again with no employee contribution. Finally, the employees' contribution (or lack thereof) to the cost of health insurance is also collectively bargained.

 

As the costs of pensions and insurance escalate, the governor's proposal to restrict collective bargaining to salaries—not benefits—seems entirely reasonable.

 

Mr. Costrell is professor of education reform and economics at the University of Arkansas.

You are mising a major point here...

 

You forgot to offset the cost to these teachers of some pencils and paper that they buy without being reimbursed. I tend to hear that every day also so the above is useless without deducting the $25 for paper and colored pencils.

 

By the way - was up north this weekend with family - I have a 10 year old niece that was taken to Madison for a field trip when all this Walker stuff was going on. She had the opportunity to learn and sing songs against Walker and the republican party - nice - way to indoctrinate the kids - I guess it really is all about the kids. Stay classy teachers. These are things that are getting people upset.

Edited July 5, 2011 by gbpfan1231

[SEC=UGA]

You are mising a major point here...

 

You forgot to offset the cost to these teachers of some pencils and paper that they buy without being reimbursed. I tend to hear that every day also so the above is useless without deducting the $25 for paper and colored pencils.

 

I've always found this argument quite interesting. Many occupations require that one spend a certain amount of money to properly "fund" said career.

 

I, for instance, have about $40,000 worth of suits, ties, shirts and shoes in my closet that I purchased while working in commercial RE. I had to look the part, did I want to buy $600+ shoes, $3,000+ suits, $150+ ties and $200+ shirts? Not really, but I had to present my self in a certain manner.

 

Further, I had to fund dinners, lunches and other entertainment out of my pocket. Yeah, I got some of it reimbursed by either the company or the IRS, but there was still some pretty serious cash outlay per year.

[caddyman]

I've always found this argument quite interesting. Many occupations require that one spend a certain amount of money to properly "fund" said career.

 

I, for instance, have about $40,000 worth of suits, ties, shirts and shoes in my closet that I purchased while working in commercial RE. I had to look the part, did I want to buy $600+ shoes, $3,000+ suits, $150+ ties and $200+ shirts? Not really, but I had to present my self in a certain manner.

 

Further, I had to fund dinners, lunches and other entertainment out of my pocket. Yeah, I got some of it reimbursed by either the company or the IRS, but there was still some pretty serious cash outlay per year.

Yea I know...that's why the extra time working and cash they outlay is a joke. What they refuse to realize is that many of us spend considerably more time and money doing our jobs than they do. That's the rub. We are not saying that they don't deserve creidt for such efforts, just that they are not the only ones that do those things. It's always their defense when they get beat up about working 36 weeks a year...blah blah blah...I put in extra time they say. What they fail to realize is that most people work 48-50 weeks a year and still put in the xtra time. Every year my kids are down to the beach while I sit in our beach house and work for a while. Every year my wife gives me grief. That's just the way it is.

[MikesVikes]

FWIW, I don't think any politician is paid the going rate for the responsibility. $400k for the most powerful man in the world? $200k for the boss of an entire state?

 

In an extremely simplistic and defiance-of-reality sense, there is a lot to be said for only allowing the very wealthy to be elected, since it ought to be more difficult to corrupt them. What would they care about the sinecure a lobbyist offered them after their political career was over?

 

And those dudes making the $200k accept hugh donations from whom? The poorest folks in the state? I don't think so.

[Ursa Majoris]

I, for instance, have about $40,000 worth of suits, ties, shirts and shoes in my closet that I purchased while working in commercial RE. I had to look the part, did I want to buy $600+ shoes, $3,000+ suits, $150+ ties and $200+ shirts? Not really, but I had to present my self in a certain manner.

What a laughable crock of crap.

[SEC=UGA]

What a laughable crock of crap.

 

What part of it?

Edited July 5, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[borge007]

You are mising a major point here...

 

You forgot to offset the cost to these teachers of some pencils and paper that they buy without being reimbursed. I tend to hear that every day also so the above is useless without deducting the $25 for paper and colored pencils.

 

By the way - was up north this weekend with family - I have a 10 year old niece that was taken to Madison for a field trip when all this Walker stuff was going on. She had the opportunity to learn and sing songs against Walker and the republican party - nice - way to indoctrinate the kids - I guess it really is all about the kids. Stay classy teachers. These are things that are getting people upset.

Stay as classy as you?

[gbpfan1231]

Stay as classy as you?

You saw the wink right or are you saying that it is OK for teachers to have 10 year olds learn and sing songs that rip on a certain side of government?

[tosberg34]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/23/9...with-David-Koch

 

Why wasn't Mr. Koch elected as Governor? They both wanted the same thing: freedom from the shackles of the teachers from WI.

 

Wonder why you make such a big deal about the Koch brothers yet have not uttered a single word about any contributions of the Unions you continue to defend. Why is that?

 

so you think the 43K Koch donated somehow turned the elections and made him the puppet master? I think you need to reflect on who the real puppet masters are. 43K doesn't really seem like much now, does it?

[tosberg34]

You saw the wink right or are you saying that it is OK for teachers to have 10 year olds learn and sing songs that rip on a certain side of government?

 

I think you already know the answer to your questions. You actually expect him to say "No"?

[Ursa Majoris]

What part of it?

The whole lot.