Looking for a new family member...

[millerx]

I know there are several dog lovers here at the huddle and I thought I'd seek your advice on getting a new pure bred pup.

 

Growing up we always got our dogs from a rescue or the pound, and always enjoyed them. However, I have always wanted to see what it would be like with a pure bred dog. I've always been partial to Labradors because of their intelligence, temperament, and friendly manner. This also fits well with having 3 young kids.

 

However, like I said, I have never gone looking for a breeder and would like to hear from some of you that know more than I. What should I be looking for? Are prices negotiable? What age of a puppy is the right age to bring them home? Is there a wrong age? Anything at all you can provide would be appreciated.

 

ETA: This would be simply for a family dog and not for showing or competition...

 

Thanks!

Edited October 15, 2011 by millerx

[muck]

I have some very strong opinions on this topic.

 

1) You should only work with a breeder that insists on a written contract.

2) You should only work with a breeder that insists on a written contract that includes language where they will take the pup back if something befalls you. They should be explicit about their desire to keep the puppy out of the pound at all (reasonable) costs.

3) You should only work with a breeder that won't try to force you into showing or breeding your pup.

4) You should only work with a breeder that appears to be more knowledgeable than you could get in a solid weekend of internet searches about a dog breed and their breed risk health issues.

5) You should only work with a breeder that registers their litters with the AKC.

6) You should only work with a breeder of pure bred dogs. If the lab breeder you want to work with also breeds "labradoodles', you should RUN AWAY.

7) Avoid all puppy mills (which are generally recognized as having multiple breeds and/or making a living off of their litters of dogs --- less concerned about the breeds' health and well-being and more concerned with their livelihood).

 

Lastly, you should try to only work with a breeder that performs some basic health testing on their dogs, at a minimum testing for the diseases and ailments that are breed specific and genetic in nature.

[muck]

I know there are several dog lovers here at the huddle and I thought I'd seek your advice on getting a new pure bred pup.

 

Growing up we always got our dogs from a rescue or the pound, and always enjoyed them. However, I have always wanted to see what it would be like with a pure bred dog. I've always been partial to Labradors because of their intelligence, temperament, and friendly manner. This also fits well with have 3 young kids.

 

However, like I said, I have never gone looking for a breeder and would like to hear from some of you that know more than I. What should I be looking for? Are prices negotiable? What age of a puppy is the right age to bring them home? Is there a wrong age? Anything at all you can provide would be appreciated.

 

ETA: This would be simply for a family dog and not for showing or competition...

 

Thanks!

 

So, that said, you should be prepared to spend hundreds or even thousands for a well-bred, pure-bred dog from a respected breeder. I know the Mastiff breed the best, and any Mastiff pup that you see for $500 in the paper will (possibly) cost THOUSANDS of dollars in vet bills ... whereas ... getting a great pup for $2000 (that you feed and socialize properly) should have far fewer health issues ... so the overall lifetime cost of the dog will be less if you pick a well-bred dog from a respected breeder than if you buy "the cheapest one in the paper".

 

They should not let you take a pup home for any reason before that pup is at least 8 wks old. Anything earlier and you may have SERIOUS behavioral issues that are learned in the last 1-3 weeks of being with their mom and littermates.

 

Prices can be negotiable. Especially if you see your self getting another dog of the same breed from them in 5-10 years when this one gets old/older/dies.

 

Lastly, I've known of some breeders / dog-show types who will 'hide' their very best prospects with families wayyyy out of the mainstream of that breeds' politics, especially if the breeder is somewhat space constrained. Usually, these types of situations will require months if not years to really cultivate so that they are very very comfortable with you and know that you're not going to screw them over with their prized pup.

 

...oh, one other thing... do not spay/neuter your dog until after they reaach maturity, especially if it's a male...in some breeds, dogs spayed/neutered too early can increase the prospects of bone cancer (or at least that's what I've read; I've never experienced it)...

Edited October 15, 2011 by muck

[Jimmy Neutron]

Labradors are tough to beat with kids around, IMO. Try to find a family that purposely had pups and has access to the sire. It's good to personally see their (both parents) constitutions and behaviors. That will give you some idea of what to expect from their off-spring. Keep in mind that labs vary greatly. If you want a mellow dog, be sure to shy away from any field trial stock. They are bred to be very high energy - my 9 yr old will still make hundreds of retrieves in a day and want more. I vastly preferred my lab from hunting stock - excitable when on birds, but relaxed personality and mellow with small kids pulling his ears and riding him around the yard. I stay away from professional breeders - just my preference. They tend to over charge and spend less time with the pups through weaning than a typical family that has the puppy experience for the kids.

 

I am a firm beliver in taking pups at 7 weeks. If you read Richard Wolters Water Dog and use it to train you pup (even if you won't hunt or trial) - it is amazing how closely the author has puppies pegged. He tells you what to expect through each week of development and how to correct each bad behavior - extremely effectively.

 

Prices may be negotiable, it really depends on the seller.

 

Do be careful about the breed you select if you don't get a lab. Some don't do well around small children, others require too much attention for busy parents to handle.

 

Good luck and enjoy!

[Jimmy Neutron]

Muck is right about checking for possible health problems. With labs, check to see if the parents are OFA certified (hip displasia) and are free from eye problems. If the parents don't have the certification, it's not necessarily a problem - lots of people don't bother to get their dogs certified. A check with a qualified vet can usually give you a good idea if hip problems are in the dog's future. A good AKC pedigree will indicate OFA certifications, but it's rare to see these done on a whole line of dogs.

 

If you do go with a lab, ask the owners if you can pour water on the pups and parents. It sounds strange, but there are more and more labs out there with very poor coats. A bad coat may not be a problem for a dog that stays indoors all the time, but labs typically love cold weather and water and should be protected by a good, water shedding coat. A lab should be difficult to bathe because water should run off them rather than soak in.

[Big F'n Dave]

I have some very strong opinions on this topic.

 

1) You should only work with a breeder that insists on a written contract.

2) You should only work with a breeder that insists on a written contract that includes language where they will take the pup back if something befalls you. They should be explicit about their desire to keep the puppy out of the pound at all (reasonable) costs.

3) You should only work with a breeder that won't try to force you into showing or breeding your pup.

4) You should only work with a breeder that appears to be more knowledgeable than you could get in a solid weekend of internet searches about a dog breed and their breed risk health issues.

5) You should only work with a breeder that registers their litters with the AKC.

6) You should only work with a breeder of pure bred dogs. If the lab breeder you want to work with also breeds "labradoodles', you should RUN AWAY.

7) Avoid all puppy mills (which are generally recognized as having multiple breeds and/or making a living off of their litters of dogs --- less concerned about the breeds' health and well-being and more concerned with their livelihood).

 

Lastly, you should try to only work with a breeder that performs some basic health testing on their dogs, at a minimum testing for the diseases and ailments that are breed specific and genetic in nature.

 

So, that said, you should be prepared to spend hundreds or even thousands for a well-bred, pure-bred dog from a respected breeder. I know the Mastiff breed the best, and any Mastiff pup that you see for $500 in the paper will (possibly) cost THOUSANDS of dollars in vet bills ... whereas ... getting a great pup for $2000 (that you feed and socialize properly) should have far fewer health issues ... so the overall lifetime cost of the dog will be less if you pick a well-bred dog from a respected breeder than if you buy "the cheapest one in the paper".

 

They should not let you take a pup home for any reason before that pup is at least 8 wks old. Anything earlier and you may have SERIOUS behavioral issues that are learned in the last 1-3 weeks of being with their mom and littermates.

 

Prices can be negotiable. Especially if you see your self getting another dog of the same breed from them in 5-10 years when this one gets old/older/dies.

 

Lastly, I've known of some breeders / dog-show types who will 'hide' their very best prospects with families wayyyy out of the mainstream of that breeds' politics, especially if the breeder is somewhat space constrained. Usually, these types of situations will require months if not years to really cultivate so that they are very very comfortable with you and know that you're not going to screw them over with their prized pup.

 

...oh, one other thing... do not spay/neuter your dog until after they reaach maturity, especially if it's a male...in some breeds, dogs spayed/neutered too early can increase the prospects of bone cancer (or at least that's what I've read; I've never experienced it)...

 

Labradors are tough to beat with kids around, IMO. Try to find a family that purposely had pups and has access to the sire. It's good to personally see their (both parents) constitutions and behaviors. That will give you some idea of what to expect from their off-spring. Keep in mind that labs vary greatly. If you want a mellow dog, be sure to shy away from any field trial stock. They are bred to be very high energy - my 9 yr old will still make hundreds of retrieves in a day and want more. I vastly preferred my lab from hunting stock - excitable when on birds, but relaxed personality and mellow with small kids pulling his ears and riding him around the yard. I stay away from professional breeders - just my preference. They tend to over charge and spend less time with the pups through weaning than a typical family that has the puppy experience for the kids.

 

I am a firm beliver in taking pups at 7 weeks. If you read Richard Wolters Water Dog and use it to train you pup (even if you won't hunt or trial) - it is amazing how closely the author has puppies pegged. He tells you what to expect through each week of development and how to correct each bad behavior - extremely effectively.

 

Prices may be negotiable, it really depends on the seller.

 

Do be careful about the breed you select if you don't get a lab. Some don't do well around small children, others require too much attention for busy parents to handle.

 

Good luck and enjoy!

 

Muck is right about checking for possible health problems. With labs, check to see if the parents are OFA certified (hip displasia) and are free from eye problems. If the parents don't have the certification, it's not necessarily a problem - lots of people don't bother to get their dogs certified. A check with a qualified vet can usually give you a good idea if hip problems are in the dog's future. A good AKC pedigree will indicate OFA certifications, but it's rare to see these done on a whole line of dogs.

 

If you do go with a lab, ask the owners if you can pour water on the pups and parents. It sounds strange, but there are more and more labs out there with very poor coats. A bad coat may not be a problem for a dog that stays indoors all the time, but labs typically love cold weather and water and should be protected by a good, water shedding coat. A lab should be difficult to bathe because water should run off them rather than soak in.

 

Ready to get another mutt yet?

[SayItAintSoJoe]

Ready to get another mutt yet?

 

 

[i_am_the_swammi]

Growing up we always got our dogs from a rescue or the pound, and always enjoyed them.

 

[soapbox] You should stop here and save an animal that desperately need a home [/soapbox]

 

All kidding aside, I have had friends that have had great experiences with pure bred dogs, and others that got unlucky and bought a dog bred too close to the bloodlines. You just never know what to expect, regardless of the homework you do prior. Trust me, with four kids, the last thing you want is to bring a puppy home only to find out she's not a fit for your family due to psychological issues....having to give her up would break their hearts. Your chances go down significantly if you adopt a mutt.

[Sugar Magnolia]

I have some very strong opinions on this topic.

 

1) You should only work with a breeder that insists on a written contract.

2) You should only work with a breeder that insists on a written contract that includes language where they will take the pup back if something befalls you. They should be explicit about their desire to keep the puppy out of the pound at all (reasonable) costs.

3) You should only work with a breeder that won't try to force you into showing or breeding your pup.

4) You should only work with a breeder that appears to be more knowledgeable than you could get in a solid weekend of internet searches about a dog breed and their breed risk health issues.

5) You should only work with a breeder that registers their litters with the AKC.

6) You should only work with a breeder of pure bred dogs. If the lab breeder you want to work with also breeds "labradoodles', you should RUN AWAY.

7) Avoid all puppy mills (which are generally recognized as having multiple breeds and/or making a living off of their litters of dogs --- less concerned about the breeds' health and well-being and more concerned with their livelihood).

 

Lastly, you should try to only work with a breeder that performs some basic health testing on their dogs, at a minimum testing for the diseases and ailments that are breed specific and genetic in nature.

 

 

This.

 

Also prices that are negotiable, the breeder is probably not reputable. Most have the puppies pre-sold before they are on the ground. A great book to buy is "Your Purebred Puppy". It has a dedicated chapter on how to buy a puppy from a breeder. It goes over each breed, covering temperament and health issues (including genetic tests the sire and dam should have prior to breeding) for all AKC breeds, and some rare breeds. The descriptions, written by breed club members, is spot on.

 

Avoid ads in the paper. If the breeder shouldn't have to advertise. Go to dog shows and meet the breeders. Wait until after they have put there dog(s) in the ring, otherwise you will be in their way. Or, just ask for a business card and call them later.

[Rovers]

Breeders aren't all they crack themselves up to be. First, they over charge for their pure breds, and that has something to do, no, a lot to do with the "puppy mill" backlash. They have an agenda, and it is largely self serving. I'm not saying that there aren't puppy mills that should be shut down, but there are some pet stores who provide pedigree animals at a lower price and they don't necessarilly buy from puppy mills.

 

I have also adopted rescues, and have also thought about buying a breed dog. My leaning is towards the standard Schnauzer. Needs grooming, but no shedding. The standard is the least prone to having inbred diseases that the giant and miniature schnauzers have, they are the natural sized schnauzer. Great family dog, good temperment, loyal to the family as well as the master, but not overly protective.

 

As far as looks go, I love wiemeraners. Blood hounds too. Very personal choice. Be sure to research all breeds to find the fit that is right for you, but I would suggest staying away from breeds like boxers and others who have a lot of inbred health issues. I'm also not at all fond of the attack and protection breeds... german shepards, rotties, pit bulls, etc. Buy a dog bred to attack or protect.... sorry, they aren't good candidates to be family dogs.

[Yukon Cornelius]

what muck and jimmy said. I have had labs my whole life and they are great around kids. go female and you cant loose. if you want to train them do like jimmy said and get the Walters book, i have been using it for over 25 years with 3 different dogs.

[The Holy Roller]

what muck and jimmy said. I have had labs my whole life and they are great around kids. go female and you cant loose. if you want to train them do like jimmy said and get the Walters book, i have been using it for over 25 years with 3 different dogs.

 

Same advice from me. We also "rescued" a wiemeraner from a bad situation and it was our lab that really saved the poor thing. Labs are top in my book.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Breeders aren't all they crack themselves up to be. First, they over charge for their pure breds, and that has something to do, no, a lot to do with the "puppy mill" backlash. They have an agenda, and it is largely self serving. I'm not saying that there aren't puppy mills that should be shut down, but there are some pet stores who provide pedigree animals at a lower price and they don't necessarilly buy from puppy mills.

 

I have also adopted rescues, and have also thought about buying a breed dog. My leaning is towards the standard Schnauzer. Needs grooming, but no shedding. The standard is the least prone to having inbred diseases that the giant and miniature schnauzers have, they are the natural sized schnauzer. Great family dog, good temperment, loyal to the family as well as the master, but not overly protective.

 

As far as looks go, I love wiemeraners. Blood hounds too. Very personal choice. Be sure to research all breeds to find the fit that is right for you, but I would suggest staying away from breeds like boxers and others who have a lot of inbred health issues. I'm also not at all fond of the attack and protection breeds... german shepards, rotties, pit bulls, etc. Buy a dog bred to attack or protect.... sorry, they aren't good candidates to be family dogs.

 

I disagree that reputable breeders charge too much. My Aussie's parents, (both of them) had three genetic tests done on them. The cost of those procedures alone (eyes, hips and elbows), probably cost around $2000-$2500. My breeder shows their dogs in conformation and agility. Entry fees for one dog is $120 per weekend plus hotel fees, and food and gas. It takes 10-30 shows to title a dog. Why do I want a puppy from titled parents? They need to have a sound temperament to be able to handle the stress and hustle and bustle of shows. They need to be able to get along with people and dogs as they are in close quarters. Also, I want to meet the breeders and their dogs at shows, and see the sire and dam in a real world situation, not at home where things are calm and routine. Then there is the early vet care cost for the puppies, costs of raising the puppies on the ground, and stud fee which is usually the top 1 or 2 puppy in the litter.

 

Reputable breeders will tell you they don't make a dime off of breeding, it's a hobby. They don't breed for a living. My breeder of my Aussie is a doctor. He competes in agility to unwind on weekends. The breeder of my Gordon Setter is independently wealthy. Her father was the executive producer of Bonanza-LOL. Rep. breeders breed because they want a puppy themselves. They often don't breed but every couple of years. The problem is backyard breeders who do no genetic testing, and breed dogs with questionable temperaments often charge the same amount as the rep. breeder, and they get that price, or maybe a hundred dollars or so less.

 

I am a dog behaviorist and specialize in aggression cases. The longer I do this the more I believe aggression is mostly genetics. Many of my clients tell me their dog starting showing early signs of aggression at 10-16 weeks of age. They've only had the dog two weeks, and they didn't screw the dog up in just two weeks. The early signs, they often don't see, or think, oh they will grow out of their temper trantrums. We can exaserbate the problem by ignoring or treating the aggression incorrectly, or not socializing the dog properly, but my belief is, it starts with genetics.

 

I would rather spend $1500 on a dog whose parents have OFA excellent hips and free of hip dysplasia than spend $3000 later fixing the hips and have the dog never the same again. I would rather spend $1500 for a dog whose parents are free of progressive retinal atrophy than have a dog go blind at age 7.

 

As far as rescues go, there are a lot of really nice dogs out there, and I may get one, one of these days. If I do, I will get a young adult because you know what you've got as far as temperament. With a puppy, you don't know the parents, and often these puppies haven't been socialized. The socialization period of development is 3-20 weeks, and it starts closing at 16 weeks. That means the socialization period mostly happens with the breeder. It is amazing, I see puppies showing fear and fear aggression in my puppy classes at 10-14 weeks of age. They are snapping and biting already, or hiding in a corner. I can often fix it at that age, and by the end of puppy class they are allowing people to pet them, they are playing with the other puppies, and very confident, and pretty well adjusted. If I get that same dog, but don't meet them until they are 9 months of age or older, who is snapping and growling at people and dogs, the prognosis is more guarded that we can fix him, and it takes way longer to fix. My local shelter recommends me as a trainer and a behaviorist so I see all the problems that shelter/rescue dogs have. They can come with a lot of baggage, some can be fixed enough to make a loving pet, and some can't. I will be very careful when I chose a rescue dog, and will go through a battery of temperament testing.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Sugar Magnolia

[SheikYerbuti]

My parents got 2 Siberian Huskies, one from the pound, one from a breeder.

 

The one from the breeder developed hip dysplasia that required 2 surgeries, weight problems, and lived to be 9 years old before having to be put down.

 

The one from the pound lived to be 14 and had no health issues until developing diabetes in her 12th year.

 

Save a life, save yourself hundreds of dollars, get your new pet from a shelter.

[Jimmy Neutron]

the more I believe aggression is mostly genetics.

 

Possibly this and a lack of sensible discipline - sensible to the dog.

 

I think it is the Wolther's book at instructs owners around week 12-14 when the pup starts (immediately!) to test your Alpha standing, you should catch the pup, flip him/her on its back, get on all four yourself and bite the pup's throat. Obvioiusly, don't hurt the pup - shake the scruff of his/her neck in your teeth and growl. As strange as this sounds to some, it makes a distinct and lasting impression about who is the alpha in the relationship. You are teaching the lessen in dog language - much more effective than a verbal scolding or newpaper smack on the nose.

 

I've used this training trick on my last three dogs and it works unbelieveably well. They understand it, remember it and become comfortable in their place. It helps keep them, your kids and strangers safe if you maintain this kind of command with your dogs.

[Donutrun Jellies]

Save a life, save yourself hundreds of dollars, get your new pet from a shelter.

+1

[twiley]

Pure breds are cool and all but they're really just more expensive lovable meat bricks. I have two corgis - they drive me crazy at times but love them to death.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Pure breds are cool and all but they're really just more expensive lovable meat bricks. I have two corgis - they drive me crazy at times but love them to death.

i have a corgi also. way different from the lab. lab is a people pleaser the corgi is on her own program.

[twiley]

i have a corgi also. way different from the lab. lab is a people pleaser the corgi is on her own program.

Yes indeed, our female is nuts whereas the male is loyal to a fault and very laid back. Not your typical corgi - his only problem is that he likes to leave me "presents" in the house.

[detlef]

Another vote for a mutt.

[The Irish Doggy]

We have an Australian Labradoodle. Lab temperament, great with the baby, doesn't shed, fetches forever. But yeah, $2500. I needed a non-shedding dog for my allergies. If that was not a requirement, we would have checked the pound.

[muck]

We have an Australian Labradoodle. Lab temperament, great with the baby, doesn't shed, fetches forever. But yeah, $2500. I needed a non-shedding dog for my allergies. If that was not a requirement, we would have checked the pound.

 

FYI, there is no such thing as an Australian Labradoodle.

 

An Australian Shephard / Labrador Retriever / Poodle cross? Yes.

 

Don't let someone sell you some sort of designer dog nonsense at a pure-bred price. Most of these "designer dogs" are less-than-deisreable labs (or whatever) bred with other less than desireable poodles (or whatever). If they bred labs and poodles, they'd only get $300 / pup. If they breed them together, voila ... LABRADOODLES at $2000/ea. :insane:

 

If you want a mix / cross, go to the pound and get 9mo - 3yo dog and love it like crazy.

 

Purebred or not, the most important thing your dog will ever do for you is wag its tail when you get home from a crappy day.

[detlef]

Purebred or not, the most important thing your dog will ever do for you is wag its tail when you get home from a crappy day.

Reminds me of something that often happens and happened again this weekend.

 

I got up in the middle of the night to get a glass of water. The second I set foot on the floor, I hear one of my dogs in her bed (in the other room mind you), thumping her tail against the bed. As if to say, "I'm so happy you're up! Are you going to come over here and rub my bell? Because I'm right over here in case you are!"

 

So, of course, I got a glass of water and rubbed my dogs belly.

[Sugar Magnolia]

FYI, there is no such thing as an Australian Labradoodle.

 

An Australian Shephard / Labrador Retriever / Poodle cross? Yes.

 

Don't let someone sell you some sort of designer dog nonsense at a pure-bred price. Most of these "designer dogs" are less-than-deisreable labs (or whatever) bred with other less than desireable poodles (or whatever). If they bred labs and poodles, they'd only get $300 / pup. If they breed them together, voila ... LABRADOODLES at $2000/ea. :insane:

 

If you want a mix / cross, go to the pound and get 9mo - 3yo dog and love it like crazy.

 

Purebred or not, the most important thing your dog will ever do for you is wag its tail when you get home from a crappy day.

 

If the Labradoodle breeder does all of the things a reputable breeder does, I have no problem with that. We have one in our town. She breeds for temperament and prefers to sell to homes where people will do therapy work. Their laid back temperament make them great with kids. She does all of the health clearances on the sire and dam, and guarantees her dogs. Her puppies are crate trained and started on housebreaking before you even get your puppy. I love having her puppies in my classes. They are laid back and easy going. Very few Labradoodle breeders do the health clearances and breed for temperament, but I know of three here in Oregon.

 

The Austailian Labradoodle comes from the fact that the idea to mix these two breeds came from Australia where they crossed the Lab with the Standard Poodle for seeing eye dogs to go to blind owners with pet hair dander allergies. For this program, they were breeding for health and temperament. If the foundation of the line came from Australia, they are often referred as Australian Labradoodles. Not that coming from Australia makes them better prospects, but it makes for good advertising.

 

Other designer breeds were not orginally bred for purpose like the Labradoodle.

[The Irish Doggy]

FYI, there is no such thing as an Australian Labradoodle.

 

An Australian Shephard / Labrador Retriever / Poodle cross? Yes.

 

Don't let someone sell you some sort of designer dog nonsense at a pure-bred price. Most of these "designer dogs" are less-than-deisreable labs (or whatever) bred with other less than desireable poodles (or whatever). If they bred labs and poodles, they'd only get $300 / pup. If they breed them together, voila ... LABRADOODLES at $2000/ea. :insane:

 

If you want a mix / cross, go to the pound and get 9mo - 3yo dog and love it like crazy.

 

Purebred or not, the most important thing your dog will ever do for you is wag its tail when you get home from a crappy day.

 

 

Yeah, yeah. I heard all that at the time. You are wrong. I did my research and visited the breeder. There is a community of people who are breeding these dogs the right way.