Replacement officials

[STL Fan]

With major rules misinterpretations (not judgment calls) in several games including the Rams-Skins and Falcons-Broncos, does anybody still think the replacements are not having a detrimental effect on the game? This is way more than "the regular guys blow calls, too" isn't it? The Rams game yesterday got dangerous because the officials were clearly in over their heads and did not police the game, in addition to applying the rules incorrectly on numerous occasions. This has gotten ugly.

[Trots]

It's nearly unwatchable television.

[Grits and Shins]

I think everybody decided the replacement ref.s would suck and with the massive microscope being put on the ref.s every single mistake is being shown to the world. The announcers clearly are on the side of the regular refs as well.

 

There have been a couple of instances where the refs didn't know the rules but for the most part they aren't making any more mistakes than the regular refs. Every year we bitch and moan about the refs. I bet that the number of mistakes made this year are comparable to the mistakes made by the regular refs in any other year.

 

[ETA] Actually - not just the announcers but the media in general appear to be on the side of the refs.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Grits and Shins

[STL Fan]

I think everybody decided the replacement ref.s would suck and with the massive microscope being put on the ref.s every single mistake is being shown to the world. The announcers clearly are on the side of the regular refs as well.

 

There have been a couple of instances where the refs didn't know the rules but for the most part they aren't making any more mistakes than the regular refs. Every year we bitch and moan about the refs. I bet that the number of mistakes made this year are comparable to the mistakes made by the regular refs in any other year.

 

[ETA] Actually - not just the announcers but the media in general appear to be on the side of the refs.

 

 

This is where we disagree. I believe there are a LOT more mistakes being made, especially on rules interpretation and application. Could it be that YOU made your mind up that the replacements wouldn't make a difference so that's what YOU'RE seeing? Isn't that at least possible? I didn't think it would make much difference, and I have done a complete 180. I just don't see how you can continue to say it's just being reported more, and that it's not different.

[Grits and Shins]

This is where we disagree. I believe there are a LOT more mistakes being made, especially on rules interpretation and application. Could it be that YOU made your mind up that the replacements wouldn't make a difference so that's what YOU'RE seeing? Isn't that at least possible? I didn't think it would make much difference, and I have done a complete 180. I just don't see how you can continue to say it's just being reported more, and that it's not different.

 

 

Every time a replacement "blows" a call everybody says "see, see ... he sucks ... he blew that call". Every year refs "blow" calls. Every year we complain. I suspect if an honest assessment was made between the "real" refs and the replacement refs that there would be a difference, but not a significant one.

 

Where you really see the difference is when they don't know the rules ... in the BAL/PHI game there was some confusion after Vick's "fumble" ... in the DEN/ATL game there was some confusion around a penalty that should have been enforced from the spot of the foul - and in the end they got both of those right.

 

Every year we argue about calls ... and you will have some argue that the right call was made while others will argue that the wrong call was made. How is that different than this year except that the situation with the refs has everybody's interest/attention heightened.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I think the only real noticeable difference is this new "interpretation" ref....talk about slowing the game down and taking an offense out of its rhythm.

 

Other than that, I think the difference between the old and new refs is negligible...they all make plenty of mistakes. Its a human game, so its to be expected. But these current guys are in such a large spotlight that every single call is being magnified to the nth degree. They make, literally, hundreds of calls and non-calls a game...how many more mistakes are they making that normal morons in the stripes? A handful? To me, it ain't that big a deal.

[tbimm]

The other thing I have noticed more is that while they are trying to figure out the rules it is screwing up the flow of the game. It has disrupted Ryan and Manning tonight when they wanted to hurry a play and had to wait for the refs to figure out what they are doing.

I saw this in many of the games yesterday as well.

 

As I said in the last thread on this, a few missed calls here and there is fine as that always occurs. You gotta know the rules to referee at the top level though.

[bushwacked]

The first quarter lasted an hour and these particular refs tonight were incapable of keeping the game going...the game must have stopped almost 10 minutes when Moreno fumbled. Refs were getting pushed and they couldn't control the scuffle. I've watched a handful of games now and it's obvious, IMO, that the quality of reffing is substantially lower.

[STL Fan]

Again, you guys keep using the argument that the regular guys blow calls, too. I agree! Point conceded! But the types of calls, the number of mistakes, and their impact on the game is very different. And no, the penalty call in the ATL game was not called correctly. They got it wrong -twice - and Tirico explained it at length after the half. Why would the media be so pro-ref as to distort what was happening? What do they have to gain by pissing off the NFL?

[Grits and Shins]

The first quarter lasted an hour and these particular refs tonight were incapable of keeping the game going...the game must have stopped almost 10 minutes when Moreno fumbled. Refs were getting pushed and they couldn't control the scuffle. I've watched a handful of games now and it's obvious, IMO, that the quality of reffing is substantially lower.

 

 

Again I think you are blowing it out of proportion. But clearly in some instances the game has been slowed down in places.

 

I don't think the NFL is displeased with the performance of the replacement refs ... I believe they will continue to let the "real" refs stew and lose game checks. Especially if they believe the replacements improve with experience.

[EW3]

This needs to end now. The NFL is a professional billion dollar industry and it's being refereed by amateurs.

 

I think the lock-out proved a point, it's time to settle.

[Grits and Shins]

Again, you guys keep using the argument that the regular guys blow calls, too. I agree! Point conceded! But the types of calls, the number of mistakes, and their impact on the game is very different. And no, the penalty call in the ATL game was not called correctly. They got it wrong -twice - and Tirico explained it at length after the half. Why would the media be so pro-ref as to distort what was happening? What do they have to gain by pissing off the NFL?

 

 

The types of calls? I've conceded that sometimes they don't know the rules. Doesn't seem to have been that big of an impact.

The number of mistakes? I don't think the number of mistakes made by the replacements is significantly more than the "regular" refs would be making. I think everybody is paying even MORE attention to the mistakes that are made.

 

Why does the media do anything that they do? The media reveals in stirring the pot ... whining about how bad the replacement refs are gives them something to talk about and lets them stir the pot.

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

It's like a broken record in here these days

[STL Fan]

 

 

Again I think you are blowing it out of proportion. But clearly in some instances the game has been slowed down in places.

 

I don't think the NFL is displeased with the performance of the replacement refs ... I believe they will continue to let the "real" refs stew and lose game checks. Especially if they believe the replacements improve with experience.

 

 

To say the NFL is not displeased with the performance of the replacements is lunacy. They can't say it in public, but if they're not concerned about the officiating they're getting right now, they're insane. Even if the attention is not deserved, the attention the refs are getting is making the NFL look bad. That being said, I agree that they are stubborn enough to let these refs get better and hope the attention goes away. I'm not optimistic for a quick (or even eventual) agreement.

[WildTurkey]

the point was made by Tirico that you have the equivalent of 6th round draft picks officiating tonight. No, you have the equivalent of high school refs calling NFL games, applying college rules to penalties, and getting pushed around by guys they were/are in awe of, that being NFL coaches and players.

 

This results in a noticeably worse product that is being put on display because of it. Even my wife, who pays attention to 2% of what's going on in the games was able to see things were big time different than they were last year. That's going to result in TV channels being switched because guys don't like their wifeys complaining about how the game is dragging. Wait until the Neilsen numbers come out for Week 3 after this week's fiascos. Once that starts happening you can bet the issue with the PRO officials gets settled.

 

Although they DON'T deserve a pension. As TIm and Pat stated today, NO ONE gets a pension anymore. They need to get over it. Most of these guys are lawyers or other high paid pros in the offseason as well as being high paid pros in the officiating world. They need to drop that chip from the table and just settle for higher salaries or whatever.

[stevegrab]

Last week I thought, no big deal. This week, with some issues in CLE-CIN game, and the entire flow and inability to keep game in control tonight I think it is clear these guys are in way over their heads. The players and coaches are constantly badgering them, getting them to huddle up and change their mind.

 

Some examples

- CLE-CIN game - Browns driving late, players goes out of bounds as clock is at 1:06, clock keeps going, Browns coach yells at the ref, eventually they stop play, and announce "please reset the game clock to 54 seconds" (um, what about the 12 seconds before that?)

- tonight (DEN-ATL) -

- the fumble, the ensuing scrum and inability to keep control

- the Broncos drive to end 1st half, a 5 yard penalty get's marked from the wrong spot and for the wrong yardage

- another penalty, Ryan running, penalty yardage is right, but marked off from wrong spot (the interpreter or whatever helps them fix it)

- PI calls with little to no contact, while more agressive contact is let go

 

All but the last of these are things we do not see with any regularity with the regular NFL refs. Because they are NFL refs and know the rules better, and do a better job of keeping the game moving, and not letting the players/coaches push them around.

 

They need to get it resolved, the old refs will be rusty, and we'll have a few games before they are back to form. Who would have thought the officials lockout would be worse than the player lockout from last year.

[STL Fan]

Last week I thought, no big deal. This week, with some issues in CLE-CIN game, and the entire flow and inability to keep game in control tonight I think it is clear these guys are in way over their heads. The players and coaches are constantly badgering them, getting them to huddle up and change their mind.

 

Some examples

- CLE-CIN game - Browns driving late, players goes out of bounds as clock is at 1:06, clock keeps going, Browns coach yells at the ref, eventually they stop play, and announce "please reset the game clock to 54 seconds" (um, what about the 12 seconds before that?)

- tonight (DEN-ATL) -

- the fumble, the ensuing scrum and inability to keep control

- the Broncos drive to end 1st half, a 5 yard penalty get's marked from the wrong spot and for the wrong yardage

- another penalty, Ryan running, penalty yardage is right, but marked off from wrong spot (the interpreter or whatever helps them fix it)

- PI calls with little to no contact, while more agressive contact is let go

 

All but the last of these are things we do not see with any regularity with the regular NFL refs. Because they are NFL refs and know the rules better, and do a better job of keeping the game moving, and not letting the players/coaches push them around.

 

They need to get it resolved, the old refs will be rusty, and we'll have a few games before they are back to form. Who would have thought the officials lockout would be worse than the player lockout from last year.

 

 

Similar to my experience. I initially thought it wouldn't make much difference and have done a 180.

[stevegrab]

the point was made by Tirico that you have the equivalent of 6th round draft picks officiating tonight. No, you have the equivalent of high school refs calling NFL games, applying college rules to penalties, and getting pushed around by guys they were/are in awe of, that being NFL coaches and players.

 

This results in a noticeably worse product that is being put on display because of it. Even my wife, who pays attention to 2% of what's going on in the games was able to see things were big time different than they were last year. That's going to result in TV channels being switched because guys don't like their wifeys complaining about how the game is dragging. Wait until the Neilsen numbers come out for Week 3 after this week's fiascos. Once that starts happening you can bet the issue with the PRO officials gets settled.

 

Although they DON'T deserve a pension. As TIm and Pat stated today, NO ONE gets a pension anymore. They need to get over it. Most of these guys are lawyers or other high paid pros in the offseason as well as being high paid pros in the officiating world. They need to drop that chip from the table and just settle for higher salaries or whatever.

 

 

I agree with the bulk of your post, but anybody that is turning off a football game for that reason needs to grow a pair.

[Grits and Shins]

To say the NFL is not displeased with the performance of the replacements is lunacy. They can't say it in public, but if they're not concerned about the officiating they're getting right now, they're insane. Even if the attention is not deserved, the attention the refs are getting is making the NFL look bad. That being said, I agree that they are stubborn enough to let these refs get better and hope the attention goes away. I'm not optimistic for a quick (or even eventual) agreement.

 

 

If the owners were concerned about what we thought then Jerry Jones would have hired a real GM long long ago. The owners are all ego-maniacal billionaires. I firmly believe that the NFL don't care what the talking heads thing about the replacements and they are content to continue with the replacements. The NFL will dig their heels in.

[Grits and Shins]

the point was made by Tirico that you have the equivalent of 6th round draft picks officiating tonight. No, you have the equivalent of high school refs calling NFL games, applying college rules to penalties, and getting pushed around by guys they were/are in awe of, that being NFL coaches and players.

 

This results in a noticeably worse product that is being put on display because of it. Even my wife, who pays attention to 2% of what's going on in the games was able to see things were big time different than they were last year. That's going to result in TV channels being switched because guys don't like their wifeys complaining about how the game is dragging. Wait until the Neilsen numbers come out for Week 3 after this week's fiascos. Once that starts happening you can bet the issue with the PRO officials gets settled.

 

Although they DON'T deserve a pension. As TIm and Pat stated today, NO ONE gets a pension anymore. They need to get over it. Most of these guys are lawyers or other high paid pros in the offseason as well as being high paid pros in the officiating world. They need to drop that chip from the table and just settle for higher salaries or whatever.

 

 

Yeah, right ... all the NFL fans are going to change the channel .. not likely.

[WildTurkey]

I'm not talking about hard core fanatics like us, I'm talking about the probably 50% of casual NFL fans who just don't want to hear it and WILL switch that channel to HGTV. I don't *think* we're in the majority here.

[WildTurkey]

let's find Nielsen numbers for this week vs. next and see if there's any drop. I guarantee you there has never been a drop from week 2 to week 3 and if there is a slight one this year my point has been made. I'm not suggesting all the channels will be switched just because of wives btching but that will be a contributor. Perception or not, would any of you say you haven't noticed the flow of the game being different this year?

Edited September 18, 2012 by WildTurkey

[Grits and Shins]

I'm not talking about hard core fanatics like us, I'm talking about the probably 50% of casual NFL fans who just don't want to hear it and WILL switch that channel to HGTV. I don't *think* we're in the majority here.

 

 

You are being silly. Nobody is changing the channel because of the officiating. If anything it is keeping them tuned in so they can monitor the controversy - we all love a controversy.

[Grits and Shins]

let's find Nielsen numbers for this week vs. next and see if there's any drop. I guarantee you there has never been a drop from week 2 to week 3 and if there is a slight one this year my point has been made.

 

 

People change the channel when the score is 35-3 after the first quarter ... how are you going to account for that?

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

I agree with the bulk of your post, but anybody that is turning off a football game for that reason needs to grow a pair.

 

 

Says the single guy

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2012 by Sunday Couch Potatoe