Coach1310 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I may be the only one, but the regular officials are asking way too much! While I agree that the replacements are in over their heads, it is no reason to give into the regular NFL officials. To put it in perspective- They are PART TIME employees and they want: *A pension-which in most businesses is going the way of the dinosaur *To be paid like Full Time Employees *They DO NOT want to become full time employees I understand the debacle some of this has turned into, but if I think they need to give a little bit. It is evident that they understand their leverage and that got a whole lot bigger last night, but if the media quit talking about it, it wouldn't be that big of a deal(last nights call no withstanding). Like I said, I am probably the only one, but I do wish that the NFL would send a Memo to all the sports networks who carry their stuff and tell them that if anyone on their broadcast speaks of the replacements, they are being fined. I know the NFL makes a ton off of the TV contracts, but I think the networks need the NFL more and it seems a funny way to treat a client. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I may be the only one, but the regular officials are asking way too much! While I agree that the replacements are in over their heads, it is no reason to give into the regular NFL officials. To put it in perspective- They are PART TIME employees and they want: *A pension-which in most businesses is going the way of the dinosaur *To be paid like Full Time Employees *They DO NOT want to become full time employees I understand the debacle some of this has turned into, but if I think they need to give a little bit. It is evident that they understand their leverage and that got a whole lot bigger last night, but if the media quit talking about it, it wouldn't be that big of a deal(last nights call no withstanding). Like I said, I am probably the only one, but I do wish that the NFL would send a Memo to all the sports networks who carry their stuff and tell them that if anyone on their broadcast speaks of the replacements, they are being fined. I know the NFL makes a ton off of the TV contracts, but I think the networks need the NFL more and it seems a funny way to treat a client. You won't be the only one because Cunning Runt will be along in a while to advocate for the eighty hour work week, the abolition of all employee safety regulations and the cutting of all working wages by 300%. But, until he appears, let's address your points: 1. As I understand it, the NFL is trying to change the plan for current officials from a pension to a 401k. Not future officials but current ones. Why not simply eliminate it for future officials? 2. People are typically paid on their value to an organization regardless of their FTE or PTE status. It is clear from recent events that their value is enormous as their absence threatens to derail the entire product. Certainly their value is greater than that of any owner, since the NFL would not skip a beat if any of them dropped dead right now. Officials pay is approximately the same amount that can be gathered in any given week from down the side of Jerry Jones' couch, and the NFL is by a country mile the richest and most successful sports organization on the planet, so, hey billionaires, fork over you bunch of skinflints. This is pocket change. 3. And nor should they. They mostly have extremely good careers in their day jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 NFL is already censoring the coaches, so let's censor the announcers too eh? I have some arm bands and brown shirts to hand out this Sunday as well... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 You won't be the only one because Cunning Runt will be along in a while to advocate for the eighty hour work week, the abolition of all employee safety regulations and the cutting of all working wages by 300%. But, until he appears, let's address your points: 1. As I understand it, the NFL is trying to change the plan for current officials from a pension to a 401k. Not future officials but current ones. Why not simply eliminate it for future officials? 2. People are typically paid on their value to an organization regardless of their FTE or PTE status. It is clear from recent events that their value is enormous as their absence threatens to derail the entire product. Certainly their value is greater than that of any owner, since the NFL would not skip a beat if any of them dropped dead right now. Officials pay is approximately the same amount that can be gathered in any given week from down the side of Jerry Jones' couch, and the NFL is by a country mile the richest and most successful sports organization on the planet, so, hey billionaires, fork over you bunch of skinflints. This is pocket change. 3. And nor should they. They mostly have extremely good careers in their day jobs. 1. True that the NFL would not skip a beat if any of the owners dropped dead - same if any of the original officials dropped dead. If all owners dropped dead at the same time it would have a large impact just like all of the regular refs leaving at the same time - so in my opinion a stupid argument 2. Who cares if the pay they want could be found in Jerry's couch - why does the wealth of a specific owner have anything to do with it? Pocket change - then why not let every secretary/turf guy/ball boy demand a 50% raise - hey it is pocket change give it to them - hey this vendor raise your price to the NFL team - what you charge is pocket change so feel free to double your price - Jerry is rich he SHOULD pay it. It sucks that the reserve refs have to be the ones referreeing but your arguments of pocket change and Jerry's amount of cash in his seat cushion don't have any bearing on if they should cave or not in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirc Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I tell people all the time when they complain about actors or atheltes making so much money if they weren't worth it to someone they wouldn't be making it. Apparently the real refs are damn good at what they do. The NFL will have to decide if the damage they are doing to the game right now is worth it. I will not be watching Thursday. That is my personal boycott..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I will not be watching Thursday. That is my personal boycott..... It's the Browns, now that's some sacrifice. You're really making a statement there buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMF Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 1. True that the NFL would not skip a beat if any of the owners dropped dead - same if any of the original officials dropped dead. If all owners dropped dead at the same time it would have a large impact just like all of the regular refs leaving at the same time - so in my opinion a stupid argument 2. Who cares if the pay they want could be found in Jerry's couch - why does the wealth of a specific owner have anything to do with it? Pocket change - then why not let every secretary/turf guy/ball boy demand a 50% raise - hey it is pocket change give it to them - hey this vendor raise your price to the NFL team - what you charge is pocket change so feel free to double your price - Jerry is rich he SHOULD pay it. It sucks that the reserve refs have to be the ones referreeing but your arguments of pocket change and Jerry's amount of cash in his seat cushion don't have any bearing on if they should cave or not in my opinion. Correct me if I am wrong but the referees are not asking for a raise. They are asking for the exact deal they have already. The owners are trying to take away parts of the original deal. The referees are asking for nothing new in their contract, and are even willing to contemplate a hybrid structure where current refs get their defined-benefit pensions, and new hires receive the defined-contribution 401(k) plan. But the robber baron-like owners won’t budge. http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/09/25/nfl-referees-strike-fans-must-tune-out-for-labor-to-succeed/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Correct me if I am wrong but the referees are not asking for a raise. They are asking for the exact deal they have already. The owners are trying to take away parts of the original deal. The referees are asking for nothing new in their contract, and are even willing to contemplate a hybrid structure where current refs get their defined-benefit pensions, and new hires receive the defined-contribution 401(k) plan. But the robber baron-like owners won’t budge. http://news.firedogl...bor-to-succeed/ I did not imply that they are asking for too much or too little - I was just commenting on the arguments made to give the refs what they wanted. It is just my opinion that the arguments given were stupid arguments - who cares how rich an owner is or if the amount is pocket change - there are tons of items that are "pocket change". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 1. True that the NFL would not skip a beat if any of the owners dropped dead - same if any of the original officials dropped dead. If all owners dropped dead at the same time it would have a large impact just like all of the regular refs leaving at the same time - so in my opinion a stupid argument 2. Who cares if the pay they want could be found in Jerry's couch - why does the wealth of a specific owner have anything to do with it? Pocket change - then why not let every secretary/turf guy/ball boy demand a 50% raise - hey it is pocket change give it to them - hey this vendor raise your price to the NFL team - what you charge is pocket change so feel free to double your price - Jerry is rich he SHOULD pay it. It sucks that the reserve refs have to be the ones referreeing but your arguments of pocket change and Jerry's amount of cash in his seat cushion don't have any bearing on if they should cave or not in my opinion. No, Jerry should pay it because without it his product is going to become worthless. And as is noted elsewhere, it isn't even a function of a pay increase, it is a function of penny-pinching by the owners. What is it with the very wealthy these days that they have to screw over to the max as many people as humanly possible, even to the point where their own product is damaged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 It's your "part time" arguement that I do not agree with. Refs work during training camp, in pre-season and they go to conferences and workshops. Add it all up and they spend alot of time doing this job for the NFL. Their off season is the same as the player's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMF Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) I did not imply that they are asking for too much or too little - I was just commenting on the arguments made to give the refs what they wanted. It is just my opinion that the arguments given were stupid arguments - who cares how rich an owner is or if the amount is pocket change - there are tons of items that are "pocket change". Would you agree that there is a big difference between the refs asking for a raise and the owners demanding the refs take a pay cut? For the refs to take a pay cut would insinuate that they were not worth that amount of money. I think the play over the last few weeks clearly points to the opposite and the referees were earning a fair salary for the level of skill they bring. It is clear the refs are worth the money the owners need to stop penny pinching (since it is affecting the product) and get them back to work! Edited September 25, 2012 by SMF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 It's the Browns, now that's some sacrifice. You're really making a statement there buddy. But seriously, I was thinking about taking the Ravens in my survivor pool just to make that game interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Would you agree that there is a big difference between the refs asking for a raise and the owners demanding the refs take a pay cut? For the refs to take a pay cut would insinuate that they were not worth that amount of money. I think the play over the last few weeks clearly points to the opposite and the referees were earning a fair salary for the level of skill they bring. It is clear the refs are worth the money the owners need to stop penny pinching (since it is affecting the product) and get them back to work! Dude you are missing my point - I am actually on the side of the regular refs but not because of the arguments raised by Ursa - that is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 No, Jerry should pay it because without it his product is going to become worthless. And as is noted elsewhere, it isn't even a function of a pay increase, it is a function of penny-pinching by the owners. What is it with the very wealthy these days that they have to screw over to the max as many people as humanly possible, even to the point where their own product is damaged? I am fine with that - that is different than saying he should pay because it is pocket change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirc Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 It's the Browns, now that's some sacrifice. You're really making a statement there buddy. Better than nothing. I guess it is a start. What are you doing? Launching a nationwide campaign to watch soccer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonsoxandy Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Heard some sports business dude on ESPN say that the normal refs made $78,000 a year on average last year and made over $4000 each game they ref. I don't care at this point, just settle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Heard some sports business dude on ESPN say that the normal refs made $78,000 a year on average last year and made over $4000 each game they ref. I don't care at this point, just settle. Nice part time salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Better than nothing. I guess it is a start. What are you doing? Launching a nationwide campaign to watch soccer? Nah, I leave that to you ONFL'ers. I'll watch the game and not concern myself with something I have no control over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge007 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I tell people all the time when they complain about actors or atheltes making so much money if they weren't worth it to someone they wouldn't be making it. Apparently the real refs are damn good at what they do. The NFL will have to decide if the damage they are doing to the game right now is worth it. I will not be watching Thursday. That is my personal boycott..... I suppose you won't be going to the ice-cream social either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 You won't be the only one because Cunning Runt will be along in a while to advocate for the eighty hour work week, the abolition of all employee safety regulations and the cutting of all working wages by 300%. But, until he appears, let's address your points: 1. As I understand it, the NFL is trying to change the plan for current officials from a pension to a 401k. Not future officials but current ones. Why not simply eliminate it for future officials? 2. People are typically paid on their value to an organization regardless of their FTE or PTE status. It is clear from recent events that their value is enormous as their absence threatens to derail the entire product. Certainly their value is greater than that of any owner, since the NFL would not skip a beat if any of them dropped dead right now. Officials pay is approximately the same amount that can be gathered in any given week from down the side of Jerry Jones' couch, and the NFL is by a country mile the richest and most successful sports organization on the planet, so, hey billionaires, fork over you bunch of skinflints. This is pocket change. 3. And nor should they. They mostly have extremely good careers in their day jobs. A. Don't put words in my mouth. It's poor form. B. Give it a rest already. I've chimed in very little on this issue save for a couple posts here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) What the heck..... Ya, the refs want waaaaaaay too much. I'd personally rather accept the product we're getting than to see the refs get what they want and yes.....I believe the replacements suck so that tells you how firmly I am in ownership's corner. Just my opinion. You're all entitled to your own. Carry on. Edited September 25, 2012 by Cunning Runt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What the heck..... Ya, the refs want waaaaaaay too much. I'd personally rather accept the product we're getting than to see the refs get what they want and yes.....I believe the replacements suck so that tells you how firmly I am in ownership's coroner. Waiting for them to pass on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Waiting for them to pass on? No. Simple typo. Thanks for the catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) I actually looked it up and, while the owners have initiated the lock-out, it's not entirely accurate to say that the refs just want status quo and the owners are trying to pull back from that. This is not like the deal with the players where the owners exercised an option to end the current CBA early and try for a better deal but the players were happy with what they had. In this case, the deal expired on its own and the refs and league could not come to a new agreement. Which means, it's a bit muddier and I'm not so sure that the refs are not actually asking for more than they had. Now, to gbpfan's bit about how it doesn't matter whether this is chump change to Jerry or not. On one level, you're right, but I believe the point that Ursa was making is that Jerry's product now sucks and he can fix that product for what amounts to very little money. So, in that sense, it damned well does matter that this is chump change. Now, if the new refs were doing fine, it wouldn't matter if Jerry Jones had trillions of dollars and the refs wanted an extra $10 an hour. Screw them because someone else was prepared to do the job for less and was doing just fine. But that is obviously not the case. In this case, the verdict seems pretty clear. The owners greatly underestimated how important the refs were to their product and need to move more than the refs do to get this thing done. Edited September 25, 2012 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 No. Simple typo. Thanks for the catch. That's what Tate said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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