Grits and Shins Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'm not saying Watt is the clear-cut choice. I'm just saying that he HAS to be in the conversation. I don't think there's a wrong choice, between Watt, Rodgers, Brady, or even Romo. But, if you think the Texans would actually win as many games without Watt as they did with him, I think you're either very naive, or you simply haven't watched any Texans games this year. I agree that Watt is in the conversation. Having said that ... you can't win any games without scoring points and you can't win any games unless you score more points than your opponent does. Arguably the single most important player to scoring points is the QB. So no matter how oppressive the defense is ... unless the offense can score points you don't win (you can't count on the defense to consistently score points). This is why I think they should get rid of the MVP altogether (as I said previously). Furthermore, I think Houston was more concerned about show casing Watt for MVP then they were about winning games. Anytime you make a goal of the organization to showcase a single player that isn't a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I agree that Watt is in the conversation. Having said that ... you can't win any games without scoring points and you can't win any games unless you score more points than your opponent does. Arguably the single most important player to scoring points is the QB. So no matter how oppressive the defense is ... unless the offense can score points you don't win (you can't count on the defense to consistently score points). This is why I think they should get rid of the MVP altogether (as I said previously). Furthermore, I think Houston was more concerned about show casing Watt for MVP then they were about winning games. Anytime you make a goal of the organization to showcase a single player that isn't a good thing. I agree with your first point (in bold). But, the second paragraph is laughable. How exactly did they do that? 99% of what Watt did this year was on defense. Did they get the opposing QB's involved in "showcasing" Watt? Other than lining him up for a few short-yardage plays (as a TE), they did nothing out of the norm. And, make no mistake about it, he was their best short-yardage TE in those situations (so that wasn't necessarily a gimmick, or showcasing, for that matter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I agree with your first point (in bold). But, the second paragraph is laughable. How exactly did they do that? 99% of what Watt did this year was on defense. Did they get the opposing QB's involved in "showcasing" Watt? Other than lining him up for a few short-yardage plays (as a TE), they did nothing out of the norm. And, make no mistake about it, he was their best short-yardage TE in those situations (so that wasn't necessarily a gimmick, or showcasing, for that matter). I haven't watched enough Houston games ... but getting a DE involved in the offense screams gimmicky to me. Using your DE as a TE means he is getting reps in practice as a TE which reduces the reps he gets at DE. Why would you turn a specialist DE into a generalist DE/TE? Sorry, to me this screams that Houston was getting Watt's name out there for MVP consideration. And I find it hard to believe that your DE is really and truly your best short yardage TE threat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) I haven't watched enough Houston games ... but getting a DE involved in the offense screams gimmicky to me. Using your DE as a TE means he is getting reps in practice as a TE which reduces the reps he gets at DE. Why would you turn a specialist DE into a generalist DE/TE? Sorry, to me this screams that Houston was getting Watt's name out there for MVP consideration. And I find it hard to believe that your DE is really and truly your best short yardage TE threat. I'm not a HOU homer, by any means, and I certainly didn't watch them every week. I did watch them some. I just have a hard time believing that any team would be more concerned with essentially promoting an individual player, than they are with winning games. I think Watt was put in the game, in those situations, because he has better hands than the alternatives, frankly. Not to mention, those were situations (for the most part) where they were using multiple TE's (I'm speculating here, but given that it was a goalline set, I would think that would be the case). I don't think it's really any different than teams putting a defensive lineman in, on a goalline or short-yardage play, as a fullback. That happens quite a bit (saw several teams do it this year). Sometimes, your best fullback might be a 350-lb defensive tackle. Likewise, sometimes your best TE (at the 1-yard line) is your all-world defensive end (who not only used to play TE, but has shown time and time again that he has exceptional hands when the ball is thrown his way). Could getting Watt another TD or two have been in the back of the coaches' minds on those plays? Certainly. But, I don't it was their priority, or anything close. First and foremost, they were trying to convert the score (and win the game). Edited December 30, 2014 by Gopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I haven't watched enough Houston games ... but getting a DE involved in the offense screams gimmicky to me. Using your DE as a TE means he is getting reps in practice as a TE which reduces the reps he gets at DE. Why would you turn a specialist DE into a generalist DE/TE? Sorry, to me this screams that Houston was getting Watt's name out there for MVP consideration. And I find it hard to believe that your DE is really and truly your best short yardage TE threat. SPOT. ON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Who knew Gopher was JJ Watt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Who knew Gopher was JJ Watt? I'm not even saying that he should win the award. I agree that the award itself is unclear, in terms of criteria, and that there really should be separate awards (or something like "Most Outstanding"). Most valuable, in the literal sense, makes it hard to EVER pick anything other than a QB. But, if there were ever a non-QB who is deserving, I think it's Watt this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'm not even saying that he should win the award. I agree that the award itself is unclear, in terms of criteria, and that there really should be separate awards (or something like "Most Outstanding"). Most valuable, in the literal sense, makes it hard to EVER pick anything other than a QB. But, if there were ever a non-QB who is deserving, I think it's Watt this year. On that we can agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 I'm not even saying that he should win the award. I agree that the award itself is unclear, in terms of criteria, and that there really should be separate awards (or something like "Most Outstanding"). Most valuable, in the literal sense, makes it hard to EVER pick anything other than a QB. But, if there were ever a non-QB who is deserving, I think it's Watt this year. On that we can agree. yeah my earlier reply was unclear. Too early. Gopher summed it up better than me. But I agree with Grits too. They should give an award to the best QB and another to any other position. The fact that QBs touch the ball every play (usually) and generally are driving all the scoring skews the perception of dominate players. I haven't watched enough Houston games ... but getting a DE involved in the offense screams gimmicky to me. Using your DE as a TE means he is getting reps in practice as a TE which reduces the reps he gets at DE. Why would you turn a specialist DE into a generalist DE/TE? Sorry, to me this screams that Houston was getting Watt's name out there for MVP consideration. And I find it hard to believe that your DE is really and truly your best short yardage TE threat. and this quote is a bit ridiculous. Hou was a wasteland at TE and Watt started as a TE in college. Keep in mind the team was in playoff hunt through week 17. I hardly think it was about showing off Watt and more about anything they could do to win some games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 For me when I consider MVP I always think about which player would have the biggest negative impact to their team with their absence. In that light I am not convinced that Watt is the top candidate. Take either Romo or Murray off the Cowboys and the team is never in hunt for a playoff game. Take Big Ben or Bell or AB off the Steelers and they likely are not in the playoff hunt either. I really wish they would simply eliminate the league MVP and stick with most outstanding offensive player, offensive ROY, most outstanding defensive player and defensive ROY. I would speculate that Houston has a legit shot at drafting first again with no Watt on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I haven't watched enough Houston games ... but getting a DE involved in the offense screams gimmicky to me. Using your DE as a TE means he is getting reps in practice as a TE which reduces the reps he gets at DE. Why would you turn a specialist DE into a generalist DE/TE? Sorry, to me this screams that Houston was getting Watt's name out there for MVP consideration. And I find it hard to believe that your DE is really and truly your best short yardage TE threat. Dude looked real good catching some of those TDs, they were not wide open gimme catches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Also agree that MVP is a somewhat hokie award. It's been a QB or RB every year except 3 times...ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardSteeler Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 He seems to be getting no love, but the MVP should be Roethlesherger. His numbers are great this year, and however deserving Watt is, it simply never will, or should go to a non-playoff team. Plus the Steelers would be nowhere without him... without Watt... Houston would still miss the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 however deserving Watt is, it simply never will, or should go to a non-playoff team. So it's a team award now? I thought it was an individual award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardSteeler Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I did not say it was a team award, but how well the team performs certainly shod be a factor. Like it or not, it is what it is. I'd bet my last dollar that the NFL isn't going to give it to a defensive player from a non-playoff team. Ain't happening. That is my opinion on the matter, which is what message boards are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I did not say it was a team award, but how well the team performs certainly shod be a factor. Like it or not, it is what it is. I'd bet my last dollar that the NFL isn't going to give it to a defensive player from a non-playoff team. Ain't happening. That is my opinion on the matter, which is what message boards are for. The NFL doesn't pick the MVP it is voted on by the AP, NFL writers and other groups. Your opinion is correct though, unlikely for any player on a non-playoff team to win it. And Ben should be about 6-8 in the list, probably behind Bell who has taken lots of pressure of the passing game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 MVP should be renamed to MVQB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) I would speculate that Houston has a legit shot at drafting first again with no Watt on the field. and if romo didn't play this year Dallas wouldn't have won 5 games, yet they won 12 and actually made the playoffs unlike Hou Edited January 1, 2015 by HowboutthemCowboys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitansFan Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Dude looked real good catching some of those TDs, they were not wide open gimme catches. I agree the MVP award is too QB biased. I honestly wouldn't mind if they just got rid of it altogether. There's already awards for the best offensive and defensive players. I would think those are good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Food for thought. Imagine if Jamaal Charles had a better year and the Chiefs made the playoffs despite the fact A.Smith did not throw a TD pass to a WR the ENTIRE YEAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTomWeTrust Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 and if romo didn't play this year Dallas wouldn't have won 5 games, yet they won 12 and actually made the playoffs unlike Hou wow it doesnt get dumber than this... Weeden would be just fine in that offense... Romo is in a rocking chair 90% of the time do you not see how much time he gets ? i mean my god romo didnt do much at all and when it came to big games like thanksgiving i saw him come into his own fumbles wobbly passes etc... just stop man it gets old. 80% of Qbs in the league would excel behind that line Take all the teams record and tell me who would have the worse record when you take the player off the team Packers? They would have atleast 9 wins without rodgers and stick flynn in there.... Cowboys ? lmao weeden would give them 10 wins no doubt do you see the TD he flung against Colts.. hes got a fine arm Colts? they would have 6 wins without Andrew Luck Just dont know how hes not the MOST valuable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 @ Weeden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud29 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) wow it doesnt get dumber than this... Weeden would be just fine in that offense... Romo is in a rocking chair 90% of the time do you not see how much time he gets ? i mean my god romo didnt do much at all and when it came to big games like thanksgiving i saw him come into his own fumbles wobbly passes etc... just stop man it gets old. 80% of Qbs in the league would excel behind that line Take all the teams record and tell me who would have the worse record when you take the player off the team Packers? They would have atleast 9 wins without rodgers and stick flynn in there.... Cowboys ? lmao weeden would give them 10 wins no doubt do you see the TD he flung against Colts.. hes got a fine arm Colts? they would have 6 wins without Andrew Luck Just dont know how hes not the MOST valuable.. Do you really have to infect every thread with your noxious stink bait? Edited January 1, 2015 by bud29 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 wow it doesnt get dumber than this... Weeden would be just fine in that offense... Romo is in a rocking chair 90% of the time do you not see how much time he gets ? i mean my god romo didnt do much at all and when it came to big games like thanksgiving i saw him come into his own fumbles wobbly passes etc... just stop man it gets old. 80% of Qbs in the league would excel behind that line Take all the teams record and tell me who would have the worse record when you take the player off the team Packers? They would have atleast 9 wins without rodgers and stick flynn in there.... Cowboys ? lmao weeden would give them 10 wins no doubt do you see the TD he flung against Colts.. hes got a fine arm Colts? they would have 6 wins without Andrew Luck Just dont know how hes not the MOST valuable.. Same old stink bait ... over and over ... ad nauseam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 wow it doesnt get dumber than this... Well, you got one part right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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