frenzal rhomb Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I was involved in another forum discussion regarding trading Antonio Brown as 3rd round pick in a keeper league for next year for Beckham Jr. in the 13th round for next year. I was advised by a user that their league would never allow a trade like that to go through. Had a league blocked that trade there would be a mighty PO'd Brown owner today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennykravitz2004 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Were these rules in place when you joined the league, or were they perhaps voted in by the league members during an off-season? Have these rules been in place since you started in the league? Only way I could realistically see being upset about this is if this was not a rule from the start, and the league (and/or league manager) changed the rules halfway through a season. Otherwise, you know/knew the rules going in before the season started, right? Don't like the rule? Should not have joined the league, IMO. IMHO, the point here isn't really about whether or not trade vetoes should or should not be allowed. It's, "why did I join this league with this stupid rule I don't like?" Maybe you could champion the cause in your league for eliminating that rule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzal rhomb Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 no - its witin the rules of my league. I posted this possibity in the advice section and someone (not in my league) said they would veto the trade. My point here is that unless you can see the future, no one should veto any trades (unless collussion) of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennykravitz2004 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 no - its witin the rules of my league. I posted this possibity in the advice section and someone (not in my league) said they would veto the trade. My point here is that unless you can see the future, no one should veto any trades (unless collussion) of course Your point ------------- My Head Got it. And re-reading my post, sorry for being/sounding douchey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 He goes off one game and you want to try to justify that trade? I don't veto, but that's still absurd. Unless there's more to it, like you have another insane alternative for your 3rd or there's a clock ticking on how long Brown can be kept, I have a Brandon Oliver I'd like to sell you. Who would you expect to see in the (keeper depleted) third next year? There are only about a dozen guys take with Beckham to replace Brown, and none of them are going to be draftable in round 3 of a keeper league next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I was one the one he is referring to. He left out an important piece of the situation. He is out of the playoffs and trading Brown to a guy in the playoffs for Beckham straight up because of the keeper situation for next year. I told him I understand what he is trying to do but the commish needs to consider the integrity of the league for this year as well. For that reason I don't think trading the #1 WR in fantasy for a rookie with a few games played in his career would be acceptable. This is just my opinion, some will agree with me, others won't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Then you shouldn't have keepers This. Brown for Beckham and saving 10 rounds in cost is not a bad deal. Would need to know more about the full keeper rules (ie does it increase each year, is there a limit on how long players can be kept, etc.) to really help gauge value, but this seems like a pretty standard keeper league type trade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Then you shouldn't have keepers I never said the deal couldn't be made at all, just that Beckham alone for Brown is not a trade that I would hold up during the middle of the season let alone in this particular situation. IMO if a guy wants to get Brown from someone that is out of contention he needs to give up more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 He is out of the playoffs and trading Brown to a guy in the playoffs for Beckham straight up because of the keeper situation for next year. This is why you have trade deadlines or teams mathematically eliminated from the playoffs shouldn't be allowed to trade. This trade passes the smell test of being done "for keeper purposes" (barely) so if you're allowing trades, this will happen. the commish needs to consider the integrity of the league for this year as well. No he doesn't. The owners do. If he's willing to take Beckham straight up, someone just needs to make a better offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) This. Brown for Beckham and saving 10 rounds in cost is not a bad deal. Would need to know more about the full keeper rules (ie does it increase each year, is there a limit on how long players can be kept, etc.) to really help gauge value, but this seems like a pretty standard keeper league type trade. Why doesn't anyone consider the fact of what the trade does this year? As I stated this guy is out of playoff contention trading Brown for Beckham straight up to a guy making the playoffs. I UNDERSTAND it makes sense for him, but it is completely lopsided for this year. Now I understand everybody thinks that ODB is the next great thing but at this moment he is a rookie who has played a handful of games. Brown is the #1 fantasy WR 2 years running now. I just feel if the guy making the playoffs wants Brown he needs to give up more than that. And just for the record I have been running my league for 5 years and never vetoed a trade, it isn't something I'm in the habit of doing or even like to do. All of the guys in my 12 team league are competitive and level headed but I know I would never hear the end of it if I let this go through and to be honest I understand why Edited November 24, 2014 by Finn5033 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) This is why you have trade deadlines or teams mathematically eliminated from the playoffs shouldn't be allowed to trade. This trade passes the smell test of being done "for keeper purposes" (barely) so if you're allowing trades, this will happen. I have no problem with teams out of it trading, it just needs to be legit. It wouldn't be ok for me to let someone trade Demarco Murray for Bishop Sankey so why is it ok to trade Brown for Beckham No he doesn't. The owners do. If he's willing to take Beckham straight up, someone just needs to make a better offer. I completely disagree with this statement. IMO it is the commish's responsible to consider the integrity of the league. I have no problem with teams out of it trading, it just needs to be legit. It wouldn't be ok for me to let someone trade Demarco Murray for Bishop Sankey so why is it ok to trade Brown for Beckham Edited November 24, 2014 by Finn5033 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I completely disagree with this statement. IMO it is the commish's responsible to consider the integrity of the league. I have no problem with teams out of it trading, it just needs to be legit. It wouldn't be ok for me to let someone trade Demarco Murray for Bishop Sankey so why is it ok to trade Brown for Beckham People still think like this? Or did I just take the bait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I completely disagree with this statement. IMO it is the commish's responsible to consider the integrity of the league. I have no problem with teams out of it trading, it just needs to be legit. It wouldn't be ok for me to let someone trade Demarco Murray for Bishop Sankey so why is it ok to trade Brown for Beckham You missed my point. If the owners were active and pushing it there would be "better" offers being put out. If that's the best offer the guy has, what's he supposed to do? Well aside from turning it down since it's a terrible trade, but if he's hell bent on trading Brown, he's going to take the best offer he gets. Why didn't a better one come? What did you offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You missed my point. If the owners were active and pushing it there would be "better" offers being put out. If that's the best offer the guy has, what's he supposed to do? Well aside from turning it down since it's a terrible trade, but if he's hell bent on trading Brown, he's going to take the best offer he gets. Why didn't a better one come? What did you offer? I have nothing to do with this particular situation. I'm just the one he referred to in the original post as saying this trade wouldn't fly in any of my leagues. I understand both sides of this trade. IMO its a touchy subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 So you're not in the league, you don't know the full rules/nuances of the league, you don't know what other owners there are, their teams, or what they offered, but it's up to the commish to nuke a trade you personally didn't like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 He goes off one game and you want to try to justify that trade? I don't veto, but that's still absurd. Unless there's more to it, like you have another insane alternative for your 3rd or there's a clock ticking on how long Brown can be kept, I have a Brandon Oliver I'd like to sell you. Who would you expect to see in the (keeper depleted) third next year? There are only about a dozen guys take with Beckham to replace Brown, and none of them are going to be draftable in round 3 of a keeper league next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I was one the one he is referring to. He left out an important piece of the situation. He is out of the playoffs and trading Brown to a guy in the playoffs for Beckham straight up because of the keeper situation for next year. I told him I understand what he is trying to do but the commish needs to consider the integrity of the league for this year as well. For that reason I don't think trading the #1 WR in fantasy for a rookie with a few games played in his career would be acceptable. This is just my opinion, some will agree with me, others won't This is why we stop trades after kick off of week 10 , playoff teams are not all set yet and either are teams not making it , with a few exceptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 So you're not in the league, you don't know the full rules/nuances of the league, you don't know what other owners there are, their teams, or what they offered, but it's up to the commish to nuke a trade you personally didn't like? he is just referring to a thread he started and the conversation we had on the subject. How many times do I have to say it's just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 This is why we stop trades after kick off of week 10 , playoff teams are not all set yet and either are teams not making it , with a few exceptions I understand that. The trade deadline in the league I run was a couple weeks ago and your right that helps get rid of a lot of sticky situations. I'm in another league that had the trade deadline this last friday, which is too late IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 People still think like this? Or did I just take the bait? What did you mean by this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 People take personal offense here if you are pro-veto. Don't let them bother you. You are entitled to your opinion. I haven't been on these forums long but you're right it's amazing how people react to this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well I didn't exactly give up Antonio Brown for him ; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzal rhomb Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 What Im saying is unless you have a f in crystal ball no veto of trades. people are saying beckam in the 13th for brown in the third is a veto trade. Anyway, had I made the deal Id have a 31 point stat line this week while brown sat idle on a bye with two weeks to go in the regular season. How anyone can call a trade veto(ale) based on past performance is completely crazy. Let people manage their teams and keep your vetoes out of it. Im just making the point that we see 2 or 3 should I veto this trade thread every week and since you cant guarantee weekly performance the answer is alwas no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 What did you mean by this? Is either you are for vetoing trades that you think are unfair or you are being facetious. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Why doesn't anyone consider the fact of what the trade does this year? As I stated this guy is out of playoff contention trading Brown for Beckham straight up to a guy making the playoffs. I UNDERSTAND it makes sense for him, but it is completely lopsided for this year. Now I understand everybody thinks that ODB is the next great thing but at this moment he is a rookie who has played a handful of games. Brown is the #1 fantasy WR 2 years running now. I just feel if the guy making the playoffs wants Brown he needs to give up more than that. People are considering the current season, but the fact that it is a keeper league means the trade needs to be looked at in the long term as well. Would need to know full details of keeper rules to better judge, as I already stated. For example, if keeper costs go up by two rounds each year he basically traded 1 more season of Brown for 6 years of Beckham - a gamble, but definitely one worth taking if you are a team out of it already this year and clearly needing to look long term. In a keeper/dynasty league, you absolutely can not view trades through a redraft lens. I completely disagree with this statement. IMO it is the commish's responsible to consider the integrity of the league. I have no problem with teams out of it trading, it just needs to be legit. It wouldn't be ok for me to let someone trade Demarco Murray for Bishop Sankey so why is it ok to trade Brown for Beckham Sure it would be okay to allow that trade depending on the keeper rules. What if Murray was not able to be kept the following year but Sankey could be kept for 4 more years. Or what if Murray costs 50% of a teams cap but Sankey only costs 10%. As noted above, you can not apply a redraft view to a keeper/dynasty trade. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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