Does Peyton get his job back?

[AX2RUN]

Brock Osweilers stats since he took over during the 3rd quarter of the Kansas City game week 10.

 

Win/Loss: 2-1

Completion/Incompletion: 57-93 (61.3%)

Yards: 692 (26 rushing)

TD/INT: 4-2

Rating: 88.4 (out of 100)

 

Not MVP numbers, but certainly acceptable. Everyone curbed their enthusiasm after the Chicago game because it was unclear how much the level of competition played into his success. Now he has led his team past the patriots #2 ranked defense and showed he can keep his team alive in a late game shootout. The running game has flourished with a QB who is not limited physically. This has enabled the defense to regain their early season form and play more aggressively.

 

So, do you think Peyton Manning gets his job back in a few weeks?

[Boy Named Suh]

Peyton should be the next coach of the NY Giants...how much would Eli hate that?

 

No, I don't think that he should get his job back if Oz keeps them on track. The arm is gone, and he can't win within Kubiak's system. I feel for the guy, but from a team's point of view, Oz is the guy now. Why go backwards?

Edited November 30, 2015 by Boy Named Suh

[Inziladun]

I've been in the camp that said let Peyton come back to make one more playoff run, after this game... I disagree with that entirely. Brock is playing very well based on his limited playing experience. They already paid Peyton enough respect to let him essentially throw the game just so he could break his record, fact is if he comes back and plays even 70% of what he used to be, I only see him throwing Denver's chances.

 

But Brock could easily choke in the playoffs as well. If he can get healthy enough to play a meaningless game think that'd be an ideal situation to see if he's got anything left in him to push one last time. But I don't see Brock getting sat til he starts doing a lot worse than he currently is.

[Gourdeau]

Having brock in there has really opened up the run game. Teams aren't stacking the box anymore cause Brock can chuck it and we've seen CJ Anderson do pretty good the last 2 weeks. This a long with that d, when Ware returns gives them a legit shot at a superbowl. If Peyton comes back I think it would be a huge mistake and I really hope Manning has enough professionalism and self respect to see its over and that the teams best chance to win is without him. He can still play a huge role on the side lines for this kid and the coaching staff.

[Inziladun]

Hard maybe but not impossible. Seattle showed they can win a superbowl om defense alone ironically against denver so I'm sure that message is well received.

[Boy Named Suh]

If Peyton comes back healthy and is playing well in practice, he'll get his job back. It's hard to win a Superbowl with a non-elite quarterback.

 

Hard to win it with no running game and a defense gassed from being on the field too long too. Plus he had his shot and couldn't get it done against the Seahawks. Why would he be more elite now?

Edited November 30, 2015 by Boy Named Suh

[stevegrab]

Backup QB who enters the game in releive does not usually get a W/L on their "stats". I hate the whole W/L stat for QBs anyway, since it isn't a solo sport and they are not in as much control as a pitcher in baseball.

 

That said, you make some good points and I wonder what happens when Peyton is healthy, or if he maybe never is fully healthy again this year, then they part ways (if he doesn't retire) next year.

 

I had this in mind when Peyton was out, my other QB Eli was on bye so I grabbed Oz thinking he starts now, maybe the rest of the season and could be a potential keeper in 2016. Peyton was probably not going to be in that picture so I cut him to add Oz.

 

I feel bad for him going out like this, and still feel he could produce if not for the changes in the DEN offense that Kubiak made.

 

As for the playoffs and chances at a SB, sure you'd prefer an elite type Peyton, but he isn't that anymore.

[AX2RUN]

It's hard to win a Superbowl with a non-elite quarterback.

If have to disagree. There is a long list of game managers wearing super bowl rings. You know the cliche, "defense wins championships". Denver certainly has one

[Dolphin_Akie]

If Peyton comes back healthy and is playing well in practice, he'll get his job back. It's hard to win a Superbowl with a non-elite quarterback.

 

Denver are screwed either way then.

[Montana is da Man]

I think both Peyton and Luck should NOT get their job back when they return. Their backups have been better this season.

[Montana is da Man]

 

Denver are screwed either way then.

 

The Denver team that just beat the Patriots??

[Big Dogs]

Regardless of what anyone here thinks should happen, and no matter how well Brock plays in his absence, Peyton will get his job back once healthy and they will let him take one last run during the playoffs.

 

It doesn't matter that Peyton has had such a crap season. Elway brought Peyton to Denver to get another championship, and despite this season, Peyton will go down in history as one of the best QB's to ever play the game. There's no way one HOF QB (Elway) tells a future HOF QB that he's being replaced by Brock, and he will finish the season on the bench.

[isleseeya]

Unless Brock absolutely lights it up and helps win games almost singlehandedly , Manning gets his job back for sure ...and possibly even if Brock performs very well . At the very least he will start a game when he is healthy and have the job to lose

[AX2RUN]

 

In the last 25 years, only Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are Superbowl winners who fit the description of "game manager". Brad Johnson was actually pretty good in 2002 (22tds, 6ints in 13 games with 5tds, 3 ints in the playoffs) Joe Flacco and Eli Manning are the next 2 worst Superbowl winning quarterbacks of the last 25 years. Even if you consider Flacco and Eli to be "game managers", 20 of the last 25 Superbowls have been won by elite quarterbacks.

I 100% consider Flaco and Manning game managers. You may disagree but at the time Seattle won 48 I would have considered Russel Wilson a game manager too. Any quarterback that is not asked to put the game in his hands and win it is a game manager. I think the word "elite" to discribe QBs is tossed around way too freely. Seems like any guy that goes out and doesn't suck completely is given a big contract and the title of "elite". The only QBs in the last 10 years that I would consider elite would be Brady, Manning, Favre, Rodgers, and Brees.

 

But that's not really the arguement here. The arguement is that a championship run depends more on playing defense and taking care of the ball as opposed to Having a gunslinger at QB. Ask Dan Morino about that. I can only think of 1 team to win a super bowl in recent memory with a bad defense versus at least 5 that won without an elite QB. The 2006 Colts. And had they been playing against anyone other than Rex Grossman I highly doubt Peyton would have any jewelery.

[flemingd]

The only thing is Peyton sure hasn't been elite at all this season.

 

But how much of that was the foot? Even with the "bad arm" he won games to open the season. It wasn't until the last couple that he was terrible. It's Peyton freaking Manning. The guy has done enough in his career to warrant giving him the courtesy of proving whether or not he can get it done one more time.

[Boy Named Suh]

 

But how much of that was the foot? Even with the "bad arm" he won games to open the season. It wasn't until the last couple that he was terrible. It's Peyton freaking Manning. The guy has done enough in his career to warrant giving him the courtesy of proving whether or not he can get it done one more time.

 

I agree that he is one of the all time greats, and it is hard to see him go out like this, but, in my opinion, he did the team no favors by coming back at decreased capacity. It has been apparent all year that he hasn't been up to his usual standards. By not accepting the personal limitations, he has taken the decision out of his hands and now the team has to do what is in the best interests of the team. Not to mention, the obvious friction between Peyton and Kubiak isn't doing the team any favors. I'm not taking sides on that one, as I can see it from both sides, and don't think either of them is right for the way they handled it.

 

I think that we will never get to see the deciding factors, as they are going to happen at practice. If he gets to the point where he is able to put some velocity on the passes, and gets his accuracy back in practice, we may see him again, but if he can't do it in practice, I think it's kind of dumb to think that he has earned the right to play in games.

[BA Baracus]

Good arguments on both sides here. I am really torn.

 

The biggest benefit that Brock provides is that he can run the Kubiak offense as it is designed. This provides a lot of benefits that really can't be directly compared or measured. A big one is that is really hides the overall awfulness of our o-line. The line doesn't have to overpower the defense, they just need to all be on the same page and not get totally overpowered themselves. The offensive scheme has to be significantly altered to accommodate Peyton's physical limitations and this reduces our ability to deceive defenses and keep them off balance. When you alter the scheme, you put the o-line in a situation where they have to win the one-on-one match ups in order for the play to succeed. If one guy loses his battle, the play likely fails. Brock himself has appeared competent enough thus far. His flaws that have jumped out to me are poor ball placement when receivers are moving across his field of view, not being tuned in to his WR's tendencies in regards to how they read coverage, and holding the ball too long in the pocket. These all seem like things that will sort themselves out as he takes more game snaps.

 

Peyton obviously brings his own set of strengths to bear as well. There has never been a better QB when it comes to finding the weakness in the defense at the line of scrimmage and calling an audible to set the offense up to exploit that weakness. His short to mid range accuracy is still spot on. His deep accuracy is what has been hampered by injury. Peyton also needs a clean pocket where he can set his feet and this o-line struggles to deliver that with any consistency. I truly believe that Peyton's 'arm strength' is exactly what it has been ever since he first came to Denver. It is clearly diminished from his four neck surgeries, but it is no different than where he was in his historic 2013 season. The difference is that he has had some sort of lower body injury ever since the Rams game in 2014. This just may be an indicator that his time has passed and he can't stay healthy anymore, it could also just be bad luck.

 

I definitely want to see Peyton get a 2nd ring. The fact that he only has one is probably more of a travesty than the fact that Marino and Kelly have none. But I really do wonder if he can lead us to that outcome. I am skeptical that a torn plantar fascia can heal before the end of the regular season, and how the hell do you go and pull Brock and toss Manning out there for a Wildcard or Divisional playoff game after he's been on the bench for so long???

 

It's easy for us fans to sit back and call for this or that from the team management, but this is one time where I really would not want to have to make that call. I have faith that Elway and Kubiak will eventually make the right decision, whatever in the hell that actually is.

[flemingd]

 

I agree that he is one of the all time greats, and it is hard to see him go out like this, but, in my opinion, he did the team no favors by coming back at decreased capacity. It has been apparent all year that he hasn't been up to his usual standards. By not accepting the personal limitations, he has taken the decision out of his hands and now the team has to do what is in the best interests of the team. Not to mention, the obvious friction between Peyton and Kubiak isn't doing the team any favors. I'm not taking sides on that one, as I can see it from both sides, and don't think either of them is right for the way they handled it.

 

I think that we will never get to see the deciding factors, as they are going to happen at practice. If he gets to the point where he is able to put some velocity on the passes, and gets his accuracy back in practice, we may see him again, but if he can't do it in practice, I think it's kind of dumb to think that he has earned the right to play in games.

 

Hogwash. Firstly, 80% of Manning is better than most other QB's anyway simply based on his preparation and experience/knowledge of the opponents. Second, early on he was at least able to manage his performance and mostly operate within the structure of the offense, leaning heavily on the run game and trusting the defense - something he's NEVER done before now. It wasn't until I think the Oakland game that he started being a true liability. There's no question he's declined the last few years, and perhaps not slowly - but nothing like we saw at Cleveland and Indy. That's falling-off-a-table stuff there. I'm no detective, but if he hurts his foot and can't plant properly, that's a much more likely explanation for a sudden drop off. If he's truly right, and the foot isn't the problem, he deserves the right to resume. No promises after that - if he stinks, if they don't win, if he can't deliver the ball - you absolutely pull the trigger and go back to Brock. But it's Peyton freaking Manning, and he deserves one chance to show whether or not he can do it.

 

I think he'll be a terrible coach/mentor FYI, because I don't see how he'll be able to sit second fiddle and tolerate anyone not keeping up with him. I see him as the guy in charades that never guesses it right and once he sees the answer he shows everyone how they SHOULD have acted it out.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

 

But it's Peyton freaking Manning, and he deserves one chance to show whether or not he can do it.

 

 

[AX2RUN]

Iv seen a lot of people state that Peyton deserves a chance to prove he can still play. I WOULD agree IF this were early season. But we are in the meat of the year now. Look he is a legend, all broncos fans owe their first borns for eternity to him for saving us from tebow-mania. BUT here's the reality of the situation. Denver does not have the luxury of testing the waters. Look at the remaining schedule.

 

Week 13: Chargers

Week 14: Raiders

Week 15: Steelers

Week 16: Bengals

Week 17: Chargers

 

None of those are gimme games. Denver is 9-2, tied (with a team that they play week 16) for the #2 seed. They are only 1 game back from NE and hold the head to head tie breaker. They have a HOT Chiefs team just waiting for them to trip up. So pick which of those games you're going to throw to test Peyton one last time.

Edited December 2, 2015 by AX2RUN

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Iv seen a lot of people state that Peyton deserves a chance to prove he can still play. I WOULD agree IF this were early season. But we are in the meat of the year now. Look he is a legend, all broncos fans owe their first borns for eternity to him for saving us from tebow-mania. BUT here's the reality of the situation. Denver does not have the luxury of testing the waters. Look at the remaining schedule.

 

Week 13: Chargers

Week 14: Raiders

Week 15: Steelers

Week 16: Bengals

Week 17: Chargers

 

None of those are gimme games. Denver is 9-2, tied (with a team that they play week 16) for the #2 seed. They are only 1 game back from NE and hold the head to head tie breaker. They have a HOT Chiefs team just waiting for them to trip up. So pick which of those games you're going to throw to test Peyton one last time.

I assume Peyton won't play again unless he's fully healthy and shows it in practice. In that case they're not throwing a game. I also think Osweiler will regress some, most qbs do when they start out hot it seems. And fwiw, Denver will crush San Diego twice imo Edited December 2, 2015 by HowboutthemCowboys

[flemingd]

Iv seen a lot of people state that Peyton deserves a chance to prove he can still play. I WOULD agree IF this were early season. But we are in the meat of the year now. Look he is a legend, all broncos fans owe their first borns for eternity to him for saving us from tebow-mania. BUT here's the reality of the situation. Denver does not have the luxury of testing the waters. Look at the remaining schedule.

 

Week 13: Chargers

Week 14: Raiders

Week 15: Steelers

Week 16: Bengals

Week 17: Chargers

 

None of those are gimme games. Denver is 9-2, tied (with a team that they play week 16) for the #2 seed. They are only 1 game back from NE and hold the head to head tie breaker. They have a HOT Chiefs team just waiting for them to trip up. So pick which of those games you're going to throw to test Peyton one last time.

Until he's healthy it's moot but the Raiders, Steelers, and Chargers are soft targets.

[gilthorp]

Is it realistic to think Manning will just slide to the side with the goodness of the team in mind? Lay back on the injury and use it as the reason why he's not ready? I think it's plausible. Not the way he'd want to go out, but if he comes back and crashes, it will leave a mark.

[AX2RUN]

I assume Peyton won't play again unless he's fully healthy and shows it in practice. In that case they're not throwing a game. I also think Osweiler will regress some, most qbs do when they start out hot it seems. And fwiw, Denver will crush San Diego twice imo

You could argue that Peyton was healthy up until the Oakland game. His best game during that stetch was against a terrible Lions team. He's turned the ball over in every game because his play style is oil and Kubiaks offense is water, he takes WAY to many sacks because he just lays down once the pass rush gets through the line, and then there is the ever present arm strength narrative. If Denver was working with the defenses of 2012-2014 this team would be 3-8 at best. But even if we assume he comes back in the shape he was at week 1, it doesn't solve the real issue which is how teams are playing him. Take the run, take the underneath routes and make him air it out. He can't play like that in Kubiaks offense. He just can't.

 

As far as Brock regressing, I can't argue with that. He has a tough road ahead. 3 road games against SD and PIT. But at the same time the defense is really playing well right now which is good when he doesn't have to play catch up. And the running game is kicking it into gear as well. Basicly I don't find myself excited about him as the QB as much as I find myself excited because he is making the team work the way it should, because teams cant make him 1 dimensional the way they do Peyton.

[BA Baracus]

Iv seen a lot of people state that Peyton deserves a chance to prove he can still play. I WOULD agree IF this were early season. But we are in the meat of the year now. Look he is a legend, all broncos fans owe their first borns for eternity to him for saving us from tebow-mania. BUT here's the reality of the situation. Denver does not have the luxury of testing the waters. Look at the remaining schedule.

 

Week 13: Chargers

Week 14: Raiders

Week 15: Steelers

Week 16: Bengals

Week 17: Chargers

 

None of those are gimme games. Denver is 9-2, tied (with a team that they play week 16) for the #2 seed. They are only 1 game back from NE and hold the head to head tie breaker. They have a HOT Chiefs team just waiting for them to trip up. So pick which of those games you're going to throw to test Peyton one last time.

 

Week 17 could actually serve that purpose.