Divisional Weekend GameDay Chat (Saturday)

[purplemonster]

"Pederson started the season with the best roster in the NFC"

??

[irish]

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

Not a Giants fan, but disagree on the coach issue.  Giants have manure for pass catchers that pale in comparison to what the Eagles have. Men against boys in the WR/TE rooms.  Although Jones has made nice progress... to the point where the Giants have to figure out a contract probably, Hurts towers over him.  Eagles also have a better defense.  A lot better.  NYG defense on the overrated side, but got better as the season went on primarily b/c of thibs....   but I'm not here to troll Giants fans  (as tempting as that may be).

Congrats to Pederson on a great season.  But to get this far with the Giants crappy roster, I really think Daboll should get it.  Coaching had a lot to do with that win over Minnesota.  Player talent difference made today's game a blowout. Pederson started the season with the best roster in the NFC.  Giants were considered one of the worst. Daboll made more out of a pile of doo-doo than anyone on Earth expected.  Pederson did just as expected.  Nothing wrong with that. Great job.  But Dabolls work is eye poppingly special based on the dreck he had to work with.

If I had a vote, it would be Daboll.  And I have no stake in this.  Do not care who kills each other in the NFC East.  Have at it.  

The coach thing was entirely said with sarcasm. Entirely. Was just trying to have some fun with the crew here. 

[League_Champion]

7 hours ago, Dcat said:

Congrats to Pederson on a great season.  But to get this far with the Giants crappy roster, I really think Daboll should get it. 

I was just looking at the Giants schedule from this year. Besides a couple nice wins early in the season it's not all that impressive. They squeaked by a lot of crappy teams and lost to teams with winning records. No doubt Daboll did a nice job this year but I wouldn't call it a masterful coaching job. 

[Running With Daboll]

37 minutes ago, irish said:

The coach thing was entirely said with sarcasm. Entirely. Was just trying to have some fun with the crew here. 

Yes, and I recognized it as such. 

I must say that I didn't see that team meltdown coming at all, and frankly I'm surprised. But it clearly shouldn't tarnish what Daboll was able to accomplish this season. I'm much more concerned about our personnel than I am about the coaching.  Jones reverted back to his usual inconsistency, and generally looked inept.  But the defense failed on an even higher level.

I would have rather seen a competitive game last night, but maybe in retrospect, this could be just what the Giants needed to experience for growth.  I'm assuming that the roster will look vastly different next year, because it needs to.  We have the right GM and HC, so now it's all about finding the right pieces. This is a team that still has many needs...WR's, interior offensive linemen, LB's, Corners, etc.  But my top concern is QB.

I love the kid but Jones, as I have maintained, is simply just an average Joe with some running ability. He has made the same mistakes for 4 years, both physical and mental. Even with better surrounding talent, I don't think those mistakes will change.  His ceiling doesn't get much higher than what it currently is.

So now they are between a rock and a hard place with him.  If they must sign him, it better not be for any more than a 2 or 3 year deal, at roughly 25 million per.  I say if he can do better than that, let him walk.  Signing him to an long term lucrative deal above 125 million dollars would be irresponsible, would set the team back, and would be an overall mistake. I think the Giants will do the right thing here, and not overpay or over commit, at least I hope so anyway.

[League_Champion]

4 minutes ago, Running With Daboll said:

So now they are between a rock and a hard place with him.  If they must sign him, it better not be for any more than a 2 or 3 year deal, at roughly 25 million per.  I say if he can do better than that, let him walk.  Signing him to an long term lucrative deal above 125 million dollars would be irresponsible, would set the team back, and would be an overall mistake. I think the Giants will do the right thing here, and not overpay or over commit, at least I hope so anyway.

The Giants will only get better from here. Maybe Jones isn't bad with a few more weapons? I happen to like Jones but there's definitely something missing with him, I'm just not sure what it is. 

They almost have no choice but resign Jones to a big deal. Do they really want to franchise him? As far as Saquon, he's definitely one of the best backs in football but we've seen how those big RB contracts end, it's never good. I'd kick the tires on a new deal but walk away if he's asking for a long deal. 

They have a ton of conundrums this off season. 

[Running With Daboll]

12 hours ago, irish said:

I wanna be the first to offer my condolences to all Giants' fans. I know most felt the Eagles were gonna win but this first half ass whooping was probably more than you could handle. You have to take solace in the fact that you didn't really belong in the playoffs to begin with and while Daboll is a nice little coach, he's just not Coach of the Year material. 

There's always next year!

 

Let's see if that message can get us a solid 2nd half...

Yup, I can handle it, I have no choice.

I'm more than pleased with the accelerated progress my team made this year, and I am looking forward to seeing what can be accomplished in the coming season, with a slightly improved cap, and the obvious need for roster changes.  All in all, it was a miracle season for us fans, who honestly weren't expecting the tremendous strides that were made. Making the playoffs, and even winning a playoff game, was never on the radar at the start of the season. As long as they make progress from this point forward, then we should have a lot to be happy about for the foreseeable future.

But for the immediate future, I'll be looking forward to watching the Cowboys disappoint their fans yet again on Sunday, as I expect them to get bounced out of the playoffs again, and for Dal to Dak, as he he has a tendency to do in these spots.  Enjoy the game! 😁

Edited January 22, 2023 by Running With Daboll

[League_Champion]

4 minutes ago, Running With Daboll said:

As long as they make progress from this point forward, then we should have a lot to be happy about for the foreseeable future.

I'd be happy as well. Getting rid of Gettleman was the best thing that ever happened to them. He set them back years with some of the dumb deals he made and his drafts. They are finally getting some of those bad deals off the books and can finally move forward. 

[Running With Daboll]

Just now, League_Champion said:

The Giants will only get better from here. Maybe Jones isn't bad with a few more weapons? I happen to like Jones but there's definitely something missing with him, I'm just not sure what it is. 

They almost have no choice but resign Jones to a big deal. Do they really want to franchise him? As far as Saquon, he's definitely one of the best backs in football but we've seen how those big RB contracts end, it's never good. I'd kick the tires on a new deal but walk away if he's asking for a long deal. 

They have a ton of conundrums this off season. 

Nah man, thanks, but I've been watching this same show from Jones for 4 years now, he just isn't championship material.  I like the guy, but you have to take the emotional element out of these things, he just isn't consistent enough.  A better line and new weapons certainly couldn't hurt, but they can't change the same mistakes he has been making all along, physical or mental.

You saw the game. You can't make mistakes against a top level team and expect to compete. He had Slayton open down the sideline and severely under threw him.  At 14-0, and still breathing, he threw a terrible pick at mid field, essentially ending the game. He has no internal clock that tells him when to just chuck the ball away, as opposed to having a turnover or ruining field position.  He doesn't read the field well or fast enough, and if the opponent game plans for his running, then he gets totally shut down.

Short deal, less money, or let him walk...I've seen enough, this isn't knee jerk reaction.

[Running With Daboll]

1 minute ago, League_Champion said:

I'd be happy as well. Getting rid of Gettleman was the best thing that ever happened to them. He set them back years with some of the dumb deals he made and his drafts. They are finally getting some of those bad deals off the books and can finally move forward. 

Yes, we have a bright future, and this season was like candy for Giants fans, even got a playoff win.  But as football fans we all can tell when our teams have a real shot.  I'm hoping that real shot will be there in the next few years.

[League_Champion]

5 minutes ago, Running With Daboll said:

Yes, we have a bright future, and this season was like candy for Giants fans, even got a playoff win.  But as football fans we all can tell when our teams have a real shot.  I'm hoping that real shot will be there in the next few years.

This may be the most important off-season ever for them. They need to resign the QB, probably Saquon if they choose, find some WRs, etc. 

Do they have additional draft picks besides their own? 

[Running With Daboll]

23 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

This may be the most important off-season ever for them. They need to resign the QB, probably Saquon if they choose, find some WRs, etc. 

Do they have additional draft picks besides their own? 

Not that I'm aware of.  The primary issue is the cap space.  Unlike Pederson and the Jags, the Giants didn't have any room whatsoever to improve the roster this year, in fact they had the 3rd worst cap position in the league.  Next year it improves, but only slightly, so there won't be any marquee signings in the off season.  That all changes in 2024, when there will be a significant change in cap space, so they just have to make due until then.

Saquan should be franchised, but at this point they shouldn't spend too much there either.  If he pulls a Devante Adams on them because he feels underappreciated, then they should let him walk too.  I like Saquan, but he is often injured and like Jones, the consistency isn't there.  You know as well as me that solid RB's can be found at any point in the draft, so I'm not all that concerned about it.  I think the "generational talent" thing has kind of passed him by at this point.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Running With Daboll

[stevegrab]

I'd like to thank the GIants for laying down and making this game a total blowout. I figured that would be the Chiefs game, but the Jags put up a decent fight. I caught up to live time just as the 2nd half started and watched a bit more as I did some other things before turning the game off. That was truly pathetic.

As for coach of the year...well there's a thread for that....it ain't this one. 

[stevegrab]

7 hours ago, purplemonster said:

"Pederson started the season with the best roster in the NFC"

??

maybe meant to say AFC South, still that's like best out of 4 teams, big whoop. 

[League_Champion]

15 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

maybe meant to say AFC South, still that's like best out of 4 teams, big whoop. 

Maybe one day you'll get to talk playoffs. Go Browns! 😊

[keggerz]

Fwiw, here are how many games each playoff team won vs other playoff teams during the regular season:
KC: 6
PHL: 5
SF: 5
DAL: 5
CIN: 4
BUF: 3
MIN: 3
Jax: 3
BAL: 2
MIA: 2
TB: 2
SEA: 2
NYG: 2
LAC: 1

and here are how many wins each playoff team had vs teams with winning records during the regular season:
PHI: 7-1
SF:  4-1
MIN: 4-3
TBB: 2-5
DAL: 6-2
NYG: 2-7
SEA: 3-3
KCC: 5-2
BUF: 5-2
CIN: 4-3
JAX: 3-4
LAC: 1-5
MIA: 4-5
BAL: 2-6

[irish]

49 minutes ago, keggerz said:

Fwiw, here are how many games each playoff team won vs other playoff teams during the regular season:
KC: 6
PHL: 5
SF: 5
DAL: 5
CIN: 4
BUF: 3
MIN: 3
Jax: 3
BAL: 2
MIA: 2
TB: 2
SEA: 2
NYG: 2
LAC: 1

and here are how many wins each playoff team had vs teams with winning records during the regular season:
PHI: 7-1
SF:  4-1
MIN: 4-3
TBB: 2-5
DAL: 6-2
NYG: 2-7
SEA: 3-3
KCC: 5-2
BUF: 5-2
CIN: 4-3
JAX: 3-4
LAC: 1-5
MIA: 4-5
BAL: 2-6

Well, there it is. Dallas is for real, but even moreso, the Eagles and 49ers are right at the top of the list and in the NFC championship game. The Giants were pretenders, along with the Bucs and Chargers. The cream has risen to the top with a combined 20-6 record and the Bengals had half of those losses. Love some solid, meaningful stats. 

[Running With Daboll]

14 hours ago, irish said:

Well, there it is. Dallas is for real, but even moreso, the Eagles and 49ers are right at the top of the list and in the NFC championship game. The Giants were pretenders, along with the Bucs and Chargers. The cream has risen to the top with a combined 20-6 record and the Bengals had half of those losses. Love some solid, meaningful stats. 

LOL, there what is?

The ONLY relevant "stat", is who the Super Bowl champion is, year in and year out.  But when 27 years has gone by without even reaching an NFC Championship Game, I can certainly understand trying to rationalize anything else mattering. From a psychological perspective, it's the only sanity saving recourse you have left. 😉

But hey, just kidding, you know? 😊

Edited January 24, 2023 by Running With Daboll

[irish]

1 hour ago, Running With Daboll said:

LOL, there what is?

The ONLY relevant "stat", is who the Super Bowl champion is, year in and year out.  But when 27 years has gone by without even reaching an NFC Championship Game, I can certainly understand trying to rationalize anything else mattering. From a psychological perspective, it's the only sanity saving recourse you have left. 😉

But hey, just kidding, you know? 😊

Damn straight!  THERE IT IS!  Dallas has won the SB, they won 5 games against other playoff teams and were 6-2 against teams with winning records! We have made it to the pinnacle of all professional sports!  Screw those 27 years, screw actually winning the SB, who really wants to play in the big game or even the Championship game?!  

I'm so proud, I can't even hold them back...  😭

Alright moving on now...

[stevegrab]

17 hours ago, keggerz said:

Fwiw, here are how many games each playoff team won vs other playoff teams during the regular season:
KC: 6
PHL: 5
SF: 5
DAL: 5
CIN: 4
BUF: 3
MIN: 3
Jax: 3
BAL: 2
MIA: 2
TB: 2
SEA: 2
NYG: 2
LAC: 1

and here are how many wins each playoff team had vs teams with winning records during the regular season:
PHI: 7-1
SF:  4-1
MIN: 4-3
TBB: 2-5
DAL: 6-2
NYG: 2-7
SEA: 3-3
KCC: 5-2
BUF: 5-2
CIN: 4-3
JAX: 3-4
LAC: 1-5
MIA: 4-5
BAL: 2-6

I thought these stats were interesting. I was looking at that same thing a bit, relative to one playoff team, think it was the Cowboys. Somebody said it was easy and another person mentioned the teams they played as evidence against that. I pointed out the AFC South they played was bad, just one team with a winning record and the Cowboys lost to Jags. WAS had a .500 record and they split those, and two of the wins against a winning team were 9-7-1 Giants. They had some quality wins, but also beat up on two bad divisions (AFC South and NFC North).

Looking at the Cowboys schedule this year, they had their 4 games against those divisions grouped very closely. First they played the NFCN in 4 consecutive games (weeks 7-11 with a bye) then they played teh AFCS in 4 of the next 6 games with 2 division opponents sprinkled in. 

[Running With Daboll]

21 hours ago, irish said:

Damn straight!  THERE IT IS!  Dallas has won the SB, they won 5 games against other playoff teams and were 6-2 against teams with winning records! We have made it to the pinnacle of all professional sports!  Screw those 27 years, screw actually winning the SB, who really wants to play in the big game or even the Championship game?!  

I'm so proud, I can't even hold them back...  😭

Alright moving on now...

Now there's the right attitude.  Got to find that silver lining and maintain a sense of humor. Kudos for not melting down or worse. Believe me, I KNOW long term ineptitude, being a Knicks and Rangers fan has taught me well. But even the Giants and Yankees are into their second decades of no championships, so my patience isn't what it used to be.