Grits and Shins Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Four horrible starts with absolutely NO flashes of brilliance. Absolutely nothing to give a Giant fan hope for the future. Yes rookie QBs are supposed to have growing pains ... but typically you get to see some flashes here and there along the way. Was it all hype? Or will Eli live up to his Manning name? Are Giants fan wishing they hadn't traded for Manning and had Rivers in the fold plus some picks? I know the O-line sucks and the WRs are non-existant ... but Eli has shown absolutely NOTHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooomsday Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 (edited) Four horrible starts with absolutely NO flashes of brilliance. Absolutely nothing to give a Giant fan hope for the future. Yes rookie QBs are supposed to have growing pains ... but typically you get to see some flashes here and there along the way. Was it all hype? Or will Eli live up to his Manning name? Are Giants fan wishing they hadn't traded for Manning and had Rivers in the fold plus some picks? I know the O-line sucks and the WRs are non-existant ... but Eli has shown absolutely NOTHING. 607757[/snapback] Dude, I posted this 2 minutes ago yes, I think hes a bust! I always did though. I have never seen a photo, highlight, etc. where he didn't look like he had nervous stomach syndrone (crap in pants) which to me doesn't translate into "winner" or "leader" on this level! No,its more than that. But thats part of it! Edited December 13, 2004 by Dooomsday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Red Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 It's always tough to come into Baltimore (at least in the Billick era) and try to get your offense going. When your team fumbles the opening kickoff away and then your running back fumbles the ball away and you're down 10-0 before you really get a chance to throw a pass, your day just got a lot tougher. Still, he looked freakin' horrible. Maybe if he's lucky his brother will autograph something for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 He could eventually be the second coming of Peyton, but I will never forgive him for singlehandedly ruining Tiki Barber's season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 He could eventually be the second coming of Peyton, but I will never forgive him for singlehandedly ruining Tiki Barber's season. 607762[/snapback] I expect there are some Shockey owners out there none too pleased as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 After four games? Give me a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 After four games? Give me a break. 607764[/snapback] Not a single flash ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I hope no one is forced to start Eli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooomsday Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 After four games? Give me a break. 607764[/snapback] Yes, its early. No ones saying different. Just discussing how he looks. And he looks awful every time he plays. I wish him the best. But he looks awful. Even in just 4 games, and against tough teams, you would expect to the number one pick to show somthin'. He hasn't. Peyton started his rook year. Threw some ints, buyt also threw many nice TDs, and looked like had had some potential. Team was a lot worse than this Jints team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I expect there are some Shockey owners out there none too pleased as well. 607763[/snapback] Was Shockey making any noise this year with Warner under center? I don't own him anywhere. Tiki was the #1 scoring RB in my dynasty league until the Hick got the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Yes he has looked aweful, but there were a couple of nice long balls to Jamaar Taylor several weeks back. I agree 100% with what Coughlin is doing with this kid. That being said, I don't believe that Coughlin's offense is the best system for him to be learning in. He max protects more often than not because the O-Line is horrible and this keeps Shockey and Tiki in as blockers. So Manning has no outlet, he's either got to throw to a covered receiver (not that the receivers have been looking anything like pros) or throw the ball away. It's going to be painful to watch him growing up until the Giants get rid of the human turnstile Pettigout and get someone to protect him at left tackle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 He could eventually be the second coming of Peyton, but I will never forgive him for singlehandedly ruining Tiki Barber's season. 607762[/snapback] That blame should be thrown directly onto Tom Coughlin. Tom ruined Barber's Season and the Giants Season all by himself when he benched Warner to go with Manning. At 5-4 the Giants were in control of their own destiny in the Wild Card Race and Coughlin pissed it all away to see Eli play QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop express Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 That blame should be thrown directly onto Tom Coughlin. Tom ruined Barber's Season and the Giants Season all by himself when he benched Warner to go with Manning. At 5-4 the Giants were in control of their own destiny in the Wild Card Race and Coughlin pissed it all away to see Eli play QB. 607863[/snapback] Right on with this. I don't know if Coughlin was getting heat from the Giants brass or what, but he is the reason this team is so bad. They have been decimated by injuries as well, but the onus must be paced on the coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 That blame should be thrown directly onto Tom Coughlin. Tom ruined Barber's Season and the Giants Season all by himself when he benched Warner to go with Manning. At 5-4 the Giants were in control of their own destiny in the Wild Card Race and Coughlin pissed it all away to see Eli play QB. 607863[/snapback] Let's be real here. At 5-2 the Giants wer ein control of their destiny. At 5-4 they had lost their starting safety, and theit 2 starting defensive ends. At 5-5 they could add their starting defensive tackle, all for the year. Coughlin was smart enough to see the writing on the wall and pull Warner to get Manning the game time he needs. It's easy to jump on the Hate Eli bandwagon, but it really is too early to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I agree 100% with what Coughlin is doing with this kid. 607843[/snapback] What about what Coughlin did to the rest of the Giants team? He tanked a potential Playoff Season to rush an obviously not ready kid into the starting QB role. The Giants were 5-4 after 9 weeks. They haven't won a game since. And yet here we are in week 13 and if the Giants had even one just one of those games they would be right in the middle of the playoff race. And, if we dare to dream, had they just split the four games since Warner was benched they would be one of the two Wild Card Teams right now. I know Manning is the "future" but what about the right now? Yeah maybe Coughlin is handling Manning just right, but he has let the rest of the team down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gspot Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 That blame should be thrown directly onto Tom Coughlin. Tom ruined Barber's Season and the Giants Season all by himself when he benched Warner to go with Manning. At 5-4 the Giants were in control of their own destiny in the Wild Card Race and Coughlin pissed it all away to see Eli play QB. 607863[/snapback] Can you blame him? He is trying to give San Diego a higher pick! Hated that trade when they made it, as San Diego again made off like a bandit in a draft day trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraftykraft Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Realistically, Eli is nowhere near the caliber that his brother was at the same point in their careers. Peyton pretty much hit the ground running, despite being on a worse team than this year's Giants. Eli has a good receiver corps. There are a lot of NFL QBs that could do quite a bit with Amani Toomer, Ike Hilliard, Jeremy Shockey and Tiki Barber to throw the ball to. Maybe Eli will turn things around, it has only been 4 games. But frankly, he looks pretty awful out there right now. Ask yourself this, who would you want at QB on your football team right now? Rookie Eli Manning, taken at the start of the first round? Or rookie Ben Rothlisberger, taken in the 4th/5th round I believe. The answer is easy. And quite frankly, Rothlisberger has a worse receiver corps to work with. Better wideouts, but not nearly the tight end or threat out out of the backfield that the Giants have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Realistically, Eli is nowhere near the caliber that his brother was at the same point in their careers. Peyton pretty much hit the ground running, despite being on a worse team than this year's Giants. Eli has a good receiver corps. There are a lot of NFL QBs that could do quite a bit with Amani Toomer, Ike Hilliard, Jeremy Shockey and Tiki Barber to throw the ball to. Maybe Eli will turn things around, it has only been 4 games. But frankly, he looks pretty awful out there right now. Ask yourself this, who would you want at QB on your football team right now? Rookie Eli Manning, taken at the start of the first round? Or rookie Ben Rothlisberger, taken in the 4th/5th round I believe. The answer is easy. And quite frankly, Rothlisberger has a worse receiver corps to work with. Better wideouts, but not nearly the tight end or threat out out of the backfield that the Giants have. 607975[/snapback] First of all, Roethlisberger was taken in the 1st round, the 11th overall pick. I would also beg to differ that Toomer and Hilliard are better than Burress and Ward. That being said, Coughlin shouldn't have thrown Manning into the mix. He should have let him backup this year, fix up the line in the off-season, and bring Manning in as the starter next year. Now, any confidence he may have had is gone, he's one bad start away from getting ripped by the NY media, etc., etc., etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 I would also beg to differ that Toomer and Hilliard are better than Burress and Ward. 608002[/snapback] I whole heartedly agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Realistically, Eli is nowhere near the caliber that his brother was at the same point in their careers. Peyton pretty much hit the ground running, despite being on a worse team than this year's Giants. Eli has a good receiver corps. There are a lot of NFL QBs that could do quite a bit with Amani Toomer, Ike Hilliard, Jeremy Shockey and Tiki Barber to throw the ball to. Maybe Eli will turn things around, it has only been 4 games. But frankly, he looks pretty awful out there right now. Ask yourself this, who would you want at QB on your football team right now? Rookie Eli Manning, taken at the start of the first round? Or rookie Ben Rothlisberger, taken in the 4th/5th round I believe. The answer is easy. And quite frankly, Rothlisberger has a worse receiver corps to work with. Better wideouts, but not nearly the tight end or threat out out of the backfield that the Giants have. 607975[/snapback] Right, except that the TE and RB are not let out into the passing patterns because our O-line sucks. I'd take Ward, Burress and Randel-El over Toomer, Hilliard and Taylor any day of hte week. And look at the numbers on Big Ben, he's been efficient in the offense, but he hasn't set the world on fire. What he does have is an offense that let's him take a 5 or 7 step drop and not have a defensive team huddle around him when he gets there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 First of all, Roethlisberger was taken in the 1st round, the 11th overall pick. I would also beg to differ that Toomer and Hilliard are better than Burress and Ward. That being said, Coughlin shouldn't have thrown Manning into the mix. He should have let him backup this year, fix up the line in the off-season, and bring Manning in as the starter next year. Now, any confidence he may have had is gone, he's one bad start away from getting ripped by the NY media, etc., etc., etc. 608002[/snapback] I disagree that Manning should have held a clip board all season long. Coughlin recognized that the Giants playoff chances were toast with our swiss cheese defense and chose to get Manning the game experience he needs this year and not next year. I don't believe that his confidence is shot, he'll "get" it soon enough. BTW, if everyone here is already piling on, don't you think you're about half a step behind the NY media? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberho27 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 first off, he has shown SOME flashes, atleast 3 to be exact. He has thrown 3 huge bombs to giants wr's, something warner could never have done. that is probably the only pass he has looked comfortable throwing, only because your not throwing into coverage, if you hit the guy great, if not it goes incomplete and theres really no shot at a db popping up into the middle of your passing lane after he threw the ball. another thing i'm willing to cut him some slack on is the fact that the games he's started have been against. atlanta, philly, washington, baltimore , which are some of the best defense's in the league. and he did look pretty good in the 2nd half of that atlanta game. with that being said, he does look like a lost child out there most of the time, and warner did look much better when he played yesterday. albeit against the prevent defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 We had this discussion several weeks ago when he was named the starter. It was a no-win situation to put him in there THIS year IMO. You can not say he is a bust after four games, but the offensive unit as a whole has not responded well to him being in there. Best thing would have been to let him hold a clip board all year and as a first year coach with a franchise QB, evaluate what you really had for 16 games in all the other parts before you threw him out there. The OL and WR situation needs fixing if this kid is going to shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I disagree that Manning should have held a clip board all season long. Coughlin recognized that the Giants playoff chances were toast with our swiss cheese defense and chose to get Manning the game experience he needs this year and not next year. I don't believe that his confidence is shot, he'll "get" it soon enough. BTW, if everyone here is already piling on, don't you think you're about half a step behind the NY media? 608024[/snapback] Not really. I live in New York and think the fans have been quite forgiving, so far. Much more than usual because they recognize the scenario. That being said, he's looked horrendous, for several reasons. He's gone against tough defenses, his best weapon has to pass block because the line sucks, and he was thrown into the fire and wasn't prepared. When you say he'll get it soon enough, what have you seen in his play so far that makes you think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Not a single flash ... 607765[/snapback] I've only watched one of his games, @ home versus Atlanta. While he didn't look like a world beater, I though he showed pretty good poise against a good DEF. He led a nice TD drive that ended with the Shockey TD, and, from what I've heard, he showed some nice touch on his deep balls to Jamaar Taylor. The comparisons to Roethlisberger aren't fair, as has been discussed in this thread. Clearly PIT has the better team, top to bottom, so it's not much of a discussion. Has Eli done much? No. Has he done anything to prove to me that he's a bust? No again. To me, busts are the Tim Couchs of the world. I think it WAY too early to lump him with the Sofa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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