The Misfit Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The crux of the problem here is you have a bad commish. 1. As pointed out, you most certainly can set up the league so teams with an illegal lineup score zero. When you do this, all kinds of stupid warnings and even emails will pop up for the guy who made the mistake. Kinda keeps the mistake from ever being an issue. 2. Instead of using this resource -- I'm guessing he thought he had, or meant to -- the rule comes up a couple weeks ago on an illegal lineup. You say he got off on a "technicality." I say the Commish was covering his ass, claimed Sportsline couldn't be set this way, which isn't true, and then "wrote down" the rule. 3. A good commish manages problems. A good commish does not change rules in the middle of the season, especially a couple of weeks before the playoffs that could result in the loss of several hundred dollars. 4. The guy made an error that was going to hurt him. He was not going to benefit in any way from his mistake. It'd be the same if he'd started a WR who was scratched at game time. If you guys have been in this league for 10 years, I'd suggest you have a discussion of the problems of the commish, and basically get him to 'fess up that he's responsible for this mess, and you guys should get a new commish next year. Then take a vote on what to do with this guy with 2 WRs, but I can't see under those circumstances how the majority of the league would vote to treat him any differently than the guy a couple weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 You should have never let that other guy slide, because now you really have no choice but to allow this one too. The precedent has been set.... 609648[/snapback] This was my thought as well ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 (edited) The first guy took advantage of a rule that he knew existed simply because the rules were never written down,then screamed foul when penalized,and got his way. You wright them down,and the next guy does the same thing,knowing the penalty.I'm sorry,he knew exactly what he was doing."If they catch it,I'll just say they let someone else do it also." Nice group of clubhouse lawyers. Edited December 14, 2004 by Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I haven't read all of the replie, but IMO, you should not have changed the rules to make an illegal lineup equal 0 points mid-season as it appears you did. If they were not down when the season started, then you should playout the remainder ofthe season under the rules at the beginning of the season. You set precedent giving the one owner a pass, IMO, you have to give this owner apass as well and follow the same procedure of subbing in a WR as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gspot Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I disagree with Marauders11 on this. You had to let the first team slide because the rules were not clearly written. At the time, the issue was addressed to the entire league and the rules were clarified for future application. Well, here you have your future application. Sucks for him, but rules are rules. How can someone make such a mistake after the issue had blown up once already. Just plain dumb. This should not even go to a vote. 609669[/snapback] Well said, agree completely. Precident was not set, as the rules were not officially enacted until after the first offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzarvell Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Lesson learned... don't change/alter or do anything to rules mid season. That being said the second owner is SOL. This was made clear earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Talker Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Once the rules were written down, tough. He misses out. 609673[/snapback] Agreed 100%. Especially since this is a long standing rule that everyone knew about even before it was written down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacSam Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 You can not let one player slide during the season and then rewrite rules in the middle of a season and enforce that very same rule on another team. Give the owner the choice that other stupid owner had, it's the fair thing to do even if the owner that is in the running for some bucks forgets his lineup and deserves to lose the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynCrew Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 The commish has emailed the league, he's giving him a Zero. He misses the playoffs. He was third in the points race, and his team was rolling so he could've won it all (he was the Julius Jones owner and was reaping the recent benefits).. He had a shot at winning upwards of $500 (first place points was probably out of his reach), but now he's got no shot at any money. This was not a rule 'change', we've been playing for a long time... the change is that somebody got away with it like 5-6 weeks ago with a lesser punishment cuz as he argued it wasn't 'written down' anywhere. At the time the commish let him slide with a player swap, emailed everyone that all league rules had now been posted, and told everyone to look them over. This is a TOUGH one for the guy who just got the Zero, but the commish is sticking to his email when he notified everyone that all rules had been posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Furley Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 The commish has emailed the league, he's giving him a Zero. He misses the playoffs. He was third in the points race, and his team was rolling so he could've won it all (he was the Julius Jones owner and was reaping the recent benefits).. He had a shot at winning upwards of $500 (first place points was probably out of his reach), but now he's got no shot at any money. This was not a rule 'change', we've been playing for a long time... the change is that somebody got away with it like 5-6 weeks ago with a lesser punishment cuz as he argued it wasn't 'written down' anywhere. At the time the commish let him slide with a player swap, emailed everyone that all league rules had now been posted, and told everyone to look them over. This is a TOUGH one for the guy who just got the Zero, but the commish is sticking to his email when he notified everyone that all rules had been posted. 610885[/snapback] I don't know if I agree with your commish, but I like that fact that he has made a decision and is sticking by it. Ballsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacSam Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 (edited) This was not a rule 'change', we've been playing for a long time... the change is that somebody got away with it like 5-6 weeks ago with a lesser punishment cuz as he argued it wasn't 'written down' anywhere. At the time the commish let him slide with a player swap, emailed everyone that all league rules had now been posted, and told everyone to look them over. This is a TOUGH one for the guy who just got the Zero, but the commish is sticking to his email when he notified everyone that all rules had been posted. 610885[/snapback] If it was not a rule change then the Commish should of enforced the rule the first time!!! If everyone knew the rule IMO it does not matter if it was writen down or not everyone knew of such a rule and should of been enforce ALL THE TIME no if ands or buts. Bad move IMO I hope he got that guy's league fee. Edited December 15, 2004 by ZacSam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 If I'm the guy out of the playoffs I'm quitting the league. No way should 1 guy be allowed an exception and not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Agreed 100%. Especially since this is a long standing rule that everyone knew about even before it was written down. 610784[/snapback] If it was a long standing rule everyone knew about then why were the punishments different just because they were written down? You can cut it any way you want the second guy is getting screwed. You've made it a double standard and it isn't right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 The commish has emailed the league, he's giving him a Zero. He misses the playoffs. He was third in the points race, and his team was rolling so he could've won it all (he was the Julius Jones owner and was reaping the recent benefits).. He had a shot at winning upwards of $500 (first place points was probably out of his reach), but now he's got no shot at any money. This was not a rule 'change', we've been playing for a long time... the change is that somebody got away with it like 5-6 weeks ago with a lesser punishment cuz as he argued it wasn't 'written down' anywhere. At the time the commish let him slide with a player swap, emailed everyone that all league rules had now been posted, and told everyone to look them over. This is a TOUGH one for the guy who just got the Zero, but the commish is sticking to his email when he notified everyone that all rules had been posted. 610885[/snapback] I'd be done with this league if I were in it. I think this guy is either not well liked or the rest of the members are just plain scared of his team; now they have just the excuse to remove the threat. Everyone knew the rule before but because the commish didn't write them the first guy got a lesser punishment? I said it before, you must punish the infraction but, you don't make it more or less than the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Furley Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 If I'm the guy out of the playoffs I'm quitting the league. No way should 1 guy be allowed an exception and not me. 611361[/snapback] Agree. And then I'd quit based on the fact that I could get screwed later for some other reason that isn't written down...and also because Grits quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynCrew Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 If I'm the guy out of the playoffs I'm quitting the league. No way should 1 guy be allowed an exception and not me. 611361[/snapback] As I've learned today, the first guy did NOT get off... I mis-stated what happened. It was closer to two months ago and I was away that weekend so I missed it at the time... The commish found his illegal lineup BEFORE deadlines, and that owner argued that since it wasn't written down he could play it the way he wanted... Well the commish said no and forced him to play a legal lineup by swapping players... As it turns out the guy only had one other player on his bench to make his lineup legal so there wasn't a whole lot of choosing to do... Anyways, after he forced him to make his lineup legal BEFORE the deadline, he posted the rules and told everyone to check them and what the consequences were... So long story short, the first owner DID NOT play an illegal lineup and have a different punishment than this 2nd owner who's getting punished now. He was forced to submit a legal lineup per league rules BEFORE Sunday's games started. So this is the FIRST owner who actually went through games with an illegal lineup. That's a bit of a different story, if not still a very tough sentencing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith R Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 THIS is the correct approach. Do the same for this one as the last one, then NEXT YEAR make some serious rules! 609702[/snapback] I have to agree. Your rulings need to be consistent throughout the season. Only in the offseason can rules be tweaked/properly enforced/etc. Your precedent for THIS season is set - stick with it if you want to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith R Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 By the way, IMO the proper penalty in future years should simply be - if an owner submits an illegal lineup, it automatically reverts to the last legal lineup that had been submitted. For future reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixxgunn Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Technically the first team didn't slide.You swapped his highest point guy for his lowest point guy.Same rules should apply for the other guy.Next year is the time to enforce the rules,not this year when it's been muddied already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynCrew Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 Technically the first team didn't slide.You swapped his highest point guy for his lowest point guy.Same rules should apply for the other guy.Next year is the time to enforce the rules,not this year when it's been muddied already. 612422[/snapback] THIS is exactly what I suggested when I took a straw poll of leaguemates for the sake of consistency... but the commish is standing pat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Was it written down what the punishment was for having an illegal lineup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynCrew Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 Was it written down what the punishment was for having an illegal lineup? 612443[/snapback] It was written down 2 months ago on the league site after an owner tried to play an illegal lineup BEFORE sunday and the commish stepped in, fixed his lineup, and posted all the rules... At the time the owner argued that the rules weren't posted so he had every right to play the lineup he wanted. The league has been playing for 10 years so everybody basically laughed at him, said "nice try" and forced him to play the legal lineup. So yes, it was written down when the current instance happened... This new owner is the first person to actually play an illegal lineup all season (nobody caught it), and the punishment according to the rules is a zero. He obviously thinks the same thing that happened to the other owner should happen to him (swapping players to make his lineup legal... although the other owner never actually played an illegal lineup). This is a very tough punishment for making a lineup mistake, a zero is tough to swallow in a playoff race. The basic problem is that this is not TE required league, so you can play 0-3 TE's or WR's at the WR position... hence if you only start 2 wr's the system doesn't see it as an illegal lineup. We are probably moving to a TE required league next year simply to avoid this issue ever again. You should not be allowed to enter an illegal lineup if the system is setup correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D.Morrison Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 As long as you made it clear to the league that the rules were NOW written down and no future illegal lineups would fly then....this poor gent is out-a-luck !!! I had the same issues this year with Sportsline letting owners add over their cap..........it was truly insane ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D.Morrison Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Also, I'm a big believer in staying strong and remaining on course........ If your not a strong Commish then why have a Commish ? I hope this doesn't sound like a Dictatorship over a Democracy ?!?!?!!? Wait, maybe that Nation Game is getting the better of me !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourRings Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I also think that ZERO points is way too harsh. I think you should adjust lineups to score the lowest possible lineup for the offending positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.