msaint Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 WEEI (annoying Pats homer central) was debating this yesterday and wanted to get your take because it was an interesting topic, I thought: If the Colts beat the Pats today and then take out the Saints/Bears in the SB, but they do it largely on the back of a defense that's peaking at the right time INSTEAD OF on Peyton's arm -- e.g. if Peyton throws up a couple of Roethlisberger-in last-year's-Super-Bowl-esque games and they win despite him, not because of him -- does he still get that "best QB never to win the big one" monkey off his back, or will you/fans/sports radio dooosh bags STILL saddle him with the "can't raise his game when it counts" label? Personally, I think if Indy wins it all, even he throws up a coupld of 150 yd, 1 TD, 2 INT kind of days, then Peyton's got his ring, period, and people should stop with all the Marino/Jim Kelly nonsense. But you can also see how people would refuse to cut the guy some slack, whether it's due to all his endorsements, the comparisons to Montana/Brady and their perceived (and proven) clutch play, etc., what have you. In other words, they'd say he wasn't at his absolute apex when it counted most, so the monkey is still there. So...talk amongst yourselves... Looking forward to a good one today. I think it comes down to a missed FG by what's his name, the Colts kicker...Alex or Adam....something.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Personally, I think if Indy wins it all, even he throws up a coupld of 150 yd, 1 TD, 2 INT kind of days, then Peyton's got his ring, period, and people should stop with all the Marino/Jim Kelly nonsense. Yep I think it comes down to a missed FG by what's his name, the Colts kicker...Alex or Adam....something.... It won't be that close. 27-17 Colts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 A sb ring helps build peyton's legacy big time imo ...they would not be here in the playoffs if not for him so whatever help he gets from rest of teammates to get a sb ring should not effect what he has done and most importantly would not take away from the luster of the ring Plus I don't think they win a sb unless manning plays really well , beginning with today which may make this a moot point ...we will see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 If the Colts beat the Pats today and then take out the Saints/Bears in the SB, but they do it largely on the back of a defense that's peaking at the right time INSTEAD OF on Peyton's arm -- e.g. if Peyton throws up a couple of Roethlisberger-in last-year's-Super-Bowl-esque games and they win despite him, not because of him -- does he still get that "best QB never to win the big one" monkey off his back, or will you/fans/sports radio dooosh bags STILL saddle him with the "can't raise his game when it counts" label? Personally, I think if Indy wins it all, even he throws up a coupld of 150 yd, 1 TD, 2 INT kind of days, then Peyton's got his ring, period, and people should stop with all the Marino/Jim Kelly nonsense. But you can also see how people would refuse to cut the guy some slack, whether it's due to all his endorsements, the comparisons to Montana/Brady and their perceived (and proven) clutch play, etc., what have you. In other words, they'd say he wasn't at his absolute apex when it counted most, so the monkey is still there. It's pretty funny; in most people's eyes, a ring is a ring. Elway won his first SB on the legs of Terrell Davis more than anything, but he got his ring, conversation over. Namath didn't play startlingly well in SB III, but he got the ring. Roethlisberger was downright heinous last year, but still was a starting SB QB. Manning's stature as arguably the game's best QB puts a big, fat target on his chest. People who dislike him for whatever reason will ALWAYS be loathe to give him credit. Heck, if Peyton plays like ass today but tears it up in the SB, people will trot out "well, he wouldn't be there if not for the defense" and "he wilted against REAL competition", or some such rot. Personally, I tend to discount the "rings" argument when discussing great players - if Manning wins a SB by playing poorly or by playing well, the point is that it's a TEAM game. Manning can throw for 5 tds today, it won't matter one bit if his D gives up 6. Same token, Manning could have the worst game of his career but if the D shuts down NE, it may not matter. You win as a team, you lose as a team. Manning has been more than responsible for plenty of Colts wins in the past, it doesn't lessen him in my eyes of his team bails him out of a poor performance. It's the nature of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Of course, "winning the big one" is always a nice rip, as well - and "the big one" always tends to mean "most recent loss." Any team that has been as consitently good as the Colts has HAD to have won a big one here or there - how was the '03 divisional playoff game at KC a not big game? how was the week 14 win in '05 against Jax to clinch home-field not a big win? how was the '04 wildcard game not a big game? If you're in the playoffs, you've won some big games somewhere down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake_the_builder Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Ring or no ring, he is a 1st ballot HoF'er. The ring would be nice, but dont' think it would change my mind on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) He would get all the credit he deserves, just as any other SB winning QB, regardless of how well he plays. It's always a team effort, but when they lose...of course it's always his fault to critics. It comes with the territory, and he has accepted it. He can erase alot of that perception and change his present legacy today with one game. Edited January 21, 2007 by Hitman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 He can erase alot of that perception and change his present legacy today with one game. ...unless the Colts win today and lose the SB. Heck, even if Manning comes out and goes 23-25 400 yds and 4 tds, but the Colts lose for whatever strange reason, people will be calling him a "choker" (which is the most tiresome and overused term in sports today, but that's a whole 'nother thread). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 ...unless the Colts win today and lose the SB. Heck, even if Manning comes out and goes 23-25 400 yds and 4 tds, but the Colts lose for whatever strange reason, people will be calling him a "choker" (which is the most tiresome and overused term in sports today, but that's a whole 'nother thread). agree with you on the choker label Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 The ring is all that matters. When Elway won his rings, I always thought Terrell had more to do with it than Elway, but it didn't matter. Elway had always been the goat, fair or not, when they lost all of those SB's, so fair or not, when they won, he gets the props. If the Colts hoist the Lombardi, Peyton will no longer be the goat that he has become. But he'll still be annoying and will sell his sole to the market man more than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I don't believe the ring means anything as to Manning being one of the best QBs to ever play the game. You guys seem to put a lot on one game. You also put a lot of the credit to winning a game to the qb whether he has a good game or not. Past Brady threads have had great field general, game manager and so on. So, if Indy wins, Manning playing well or not, I guess he did just enough for his team to win. Just like Brady, Grossman or any other QB that needs his persona boosted a little. I'm not coming down on Brady but, since this was started by a Pats fan well, there ya go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Not putting up guady numbers in the Super Bowl never tarnished John Elway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 This just one - on a different MB, people are saying that "the entire Colts team helped Manning out"... ...and while the D did come through with some big stops at key times, I don't think you can say that the D and special teams were exactly assets for the Colts today. This was a victory for the Colts offense, and the poster boy is Manning. Of course, admitting that would mean giving Manning an iota of credit for a Colts win in a HUGE game, and that's just too much for some people - many of whom appear to be New Englanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd1 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Not putting up guady numbers in the Super Bowl never tarnished John Elway. TD, the line and the defense won those Super Bowls, as is the formula for 99% of the winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 This just one - on a different MB, people are saying that "the entire Colts team helped Manning out"... ...and while the D did come through with some big stops at key times, I don't think you can say that the D and special teams were exactly assets for the Colts today. This was a victory for the Colts offense, and the poster boy is Manning. Of course, admitting that would mean giving Manning an iota of credit for a Colts win in a HUGE game, and that's just too much for some people - many of whom appear to be New Englanders. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 This just one - on a different MB, people are saying that "the entire Colts team helped Manning out"... ...and while the D did come through with some big stops at key times, I don't think you can say that the D and special teams were exactly assets for the Colts today. This was a victory for the Colts offense, and the poster boy is Manning. Of course, admitting that would mean giving Manning an iota of credit for a Colts win in a HUGE game, and that's just too much for some people - many of whom appear to be New Englanders. Sample (I won't link here; if anyone really and truly doubts me, I will provide one): lets ALL jump on Peyton Manning's dick, and pretend he's the only reason Indy won.What a bunch of noobs. The only reason Indy won is because the defense stepped up, and because Caldwell apparently can't make a catch if no one is covering him. But your all right, let's all go jerk it to pictures of Manning, and adore him and the football mecca that is the RCA Dome. You guys are a bunch of wankers. Peyton plays with a Hall of Fame receiver and Pro-Bowl receivers. Brady plays with a bunch of backyard pickup ball superstars. If Indy had actually beaten the Patriots two or three years ago, I would respect Manning, because I appreciate talent when I see it. This is someone who won a game in the weakest AFC in the last 10 years. I'm just a bit boggled at this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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