MikesVikes Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) After the 2001 season, the Bucs kicked Dungy out and hired Gruden away from Oakland. Draft choices were added for the rights to Gruden. It looked great at the time that Gruden won a championship with the team that Dungy built the following season. But since that first year afterwards it looks like this for the Bucs... 2002 12-4 Gruden looks like the genius coaching Tony's team. He's on top of the world! 2003 7-9 2004 5-11 2005 11-5 (0-1 in the playoffs) 2006 4-12 Meanwhile Dungy was improving the Colts... 2002 10-6 2003 12-4 2004 12-4 2005 14-2 2006 12-4 Directly and indirectly, the Bucs gave Oakland Langston Walker and Phillip Buchanan or the rights for the coaching upgrade. Any chance that Tampa would want a do over now? Edited February 8, 2007 by MikesVikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 A ring is worth it I imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Sell your soul for the Chucky doll or stick with the Good Guy Inc. in Tony Dungy....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 A ring is worth it I imagine. +1 No brainer, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Turned out pretty good for the Bucs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Have Walker and Buchanan really amounted to all that much? TB got the ring. That alone makes it worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Do you guys really believe that Dungy couldn't have won the big one if he coached that Bucs team or was Gruden the final piece to the puzzle to bring the ring to the Bucs? I see it as turning point for the decline of the Bucs team and a boost to the Colts team. As each year has passed it became more Gruden's team. As each year has passed the Bucs have basically taken a nose dive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Dungy not McKay built that team? At the time it looked like a good trade, TB needed offense and Indy needed defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Dungy takes the blame for not hiring a better OC and their GM takes the blame for drafting crappy offensive players. I still think that TB made the right decision. Kiffin did a tremendous job of that defense and they really needed a coach who would get the most out of Brad Johnson and MeShawn. Picking up Keenan McCardell that year didn't hurt, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Those picks given away for Gruden might as well be a Mickey Mouse watch. I wouldn't switch from Dungy to Gruden regardless of how those picks turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Those picks given away for Gruden might as well be a Mickey Mouse watch. I wouldn't switch from Dungy to Gruden regardless of how those picks turned out. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 it certainly worked out for the bucs, regardless of what they did this year. to this day i would take gruden over dungy to coach my team. if you're wondering why the colts won the super bowl and the bucs won 5 games....it probably has more to do with peyton manning and reggie wayne versus bruce gradkoswki and michael clayton than it does with dungy being a better coach than gruden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 it certainly worked out for the bucs, regardless of what they did this year. to this day i would take gruden over dungy to coach my team. if you're wondering why the colts won the super bowl and the bucs won 5 games....it probably has more to do with peyton manning and reggie wayne versus bruce gradkoswki and michael clayton than it does with dungy being a better coach than gruden. I'll take Dungy every year. TB was a joke until he got there and I don't believe the Colts were threatening to win the SB before he got there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 it certainly worked out for the bucs, regardless of what they did this year. to this day i would take gruden over dungy to coach my team. if you're wondering why the colts won the super bowl and the bucs won 5 games....it probably has more to do with peyton manning and reggie wayne versus bruce gradkoswki and michael clayton than it does with dungy being a better coach than gruden. well.......... i think dungy (and staff) have made some great adjustments. the year after manning sets the single season record for td passes, they go back to a run first, defense oriented scheme......... and come playoff time this year made remarkable changes on defense. sure indy has a far superior offense, but when dungy left tb, that d was phenomenal- reminded me of that bal team a few years prior (but with a better offense) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'll take Dungy every year. TB was a joke until he got there and I don't believe the Colts were threatening to win the SB before he got there either. well....to be fair, remeber what oakland was before-and-after gruden was there. well.......... i think dungy (and staff) have made some great adjustments. the year after manning sets the single season record for td passes, they go back to a run first, defense oriented scheme......... and come playoff time this year made remarkable changes on defense. sure indy has a far superior offense, but when dungy left tb, that d was phenomenal- reminded me of that bal team a few years prior (but with a better offense) i honestly don't think dungy really has much to do with their success or lack-of on offense. they were a great offense before he got there, and he could leave tomorrow and they'd still be a great offense. sure he deserves some credit for how their defense played in the playoffs this year...but for most of dungy's tenure there, their defense has been crap. i like the guy, i just don't think he's necessarily in the upper echelon of NFL head coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rodgers Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) Do you guys really believe that Dungy couldn't have won the big one if he coached that Bucs team or was Gruden the final piece to the puzzle to bring the ring to the Bucs? I see it as turning point for the decline of the Bucs team and a boost to the Colts team. As each year has passed it became more Gruden's team. As each year has passed the Bucs have basically taken a nose dive. Read this and then we will talk... "DID GRUDEN WIN THE SUPER BOWL WITH DUNGY’S TEAM?" This myth, which was referenced as recently as last Saturday’s editorial in the Tampa Tribune that called for Gruden’s firing, is easy to debunk. Former Bucs head coach Tony Dungy did some great things in Tampa Bay, and he played an integral role in turning one of the league’s worst franchises into one of the best. However, Dungy didn’t win the Super Bowl with his own team, which is why he was fired. It’s completely fair to say Gruden inherited a playoff-caliber team. The Bucs had, after all, made the playoffs in four of Dungy’s six seasons in Tampa Bay. However, Gruden didn’t win with Dungy’s team. He completely retooled the offensive side of the ball, having former Bucs general manager Rich McKay sign eight players in 2002, including tackle Roman Oben, guard Kerry Jenkins, quarterback Rob Johnson, wide receivers Keenan McCardell and Joe Jurevicius, tight ends Ken Dilger and Rickey Dudley, and running back Michael Pittman. Each of those players started at least one game for the Bucs during their Super Bowl run. An analysis of the Super Bowl roster (including injured reserve) shows a total of 28 players brought in under the Gruden-McKay regime: OT Lomas Brown,_FB Darian Barnes,_LS Ryan Benjamin,_DT DeVone Claybrooks,_TE Casey Crawford,_LB Jack Golden, _OT Dan Goodspeed,_OT Cornell Green,_DT Buck Gurley,_FS Jermaine Phillips,_DE Greg Spires, P Tom Tupa,_CB Tim Wansley,_TE Daniel Wilcox, WR Charles Lee,_LB Ryan Nece,_LS Mike Solwold,_DE Corey Smith,_RB Travis Stephens_WR and Marquise Walker. That’s over half the roster. Dungy’s playoff teams in Tampa Bay scored a total of 59 points in six playoff contests, which averaged out to 9.8 points per contest. The Bucs also failed to score a touchdown in their final three playoff losses, including two in Philadelphia, which was the same place Gruden and the Bucs won 27-10 to advance to the Super Bowl. Yes, the Monte Kiffin-led defense carried the torch during Tampa Bay’s Super Bowl season, but the Bucs scored a total of 106 points in three post-season games, and Gruden’s offense did play a significant part in that. Edited February 9, 2007 by Jolly Rodgers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Read this and then we will talk... "DID GRUDEN WON THE SUPER BOWL WITH DUNGY’S TEAM?" This myth, which was referenced as recently as last Saturday’s editorial in the Tampa Tribune that called for Gruden’s firing, is easy to debunk. Former Bucs head coach Tony Dungy did some great things in Tampa Bay, and he played an integral role in turning one of the league’s worst franchises into one of the best. However, Dungy didn’t win the Super Bowl with his own team, which is why he was fired. It’s completely fair to say Gruden inherited a playoff-caliber team. The Bucs had, after all, made the playoffs in four of Dungy’s six seasons in Tampa Bay. However, Gruden didn’t win with Dungy’s team. He completely retooled the offensive side of the ball, having former Bucs general manager Rich McKay sign eight players in 2002, including tackle Roman Oben, guard Kerry Jenkins, quarterback Rob Johnson, wide receivers Keenan McCardell and Joe Jurevicius, tight ends Ken Dilger and Rickey Dudley, and running back Michael Pittman. Each of those players started at least one game for the Bucs during their Super Bowl run. An analysis of the Super Bowl roster (including injured reserve) shows a total of 28 players brought in under the Gruden-McKay regime: OT Lomas Brown,_FB Darian Barnes,_LS Ryan Benjamin,_DT DeVone Claybrooks,_TE Casey Crawford,_LB Jack Golden, _OT Dan Goodspeed,_OT Cornell Green,_DT Buck Gurley,_FS Jermaine Phillips,_DE Greg Spires, P Tom Tupa,_CB Tim Wansley,_TE Daniel Wilcox, WR Charles Lee,_LB Ryan Nece,_LS Mike Solwold,_DE Corey Smith,_RB Travis Stephens_WR and Marquise Walker. That’s over half the roster. Dungy’s playoff teams in Tampa Bay scored a total of 59 points in six playoff contests, which averaged out to 9.8 points per contest. The Bucs also failed to score a touchdown in their final three playoff losses, including two in Philadelphia, which was the same place Gruden and the Bucs won 27-10 to advance to the Super Bowl. Yes, the Monte Kiffin-led defense carried the torch during Tampa Bay’s Super Bowl season, but the Bucs scored a total of 106 points in three post-season games, and Gruden’s offense did play a significant part in that. Good info here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rodgers Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 After the 2001 season, the Bucs kicked Dungy out and hired Gruden away from Oakland. Draft choices were added for the rights to Gruden. It looked great at the time that Gruden won a championship with the team that Dungy built the following season. But since that first year afterwards it looks like this for the Bucs... 2002 12-4 Gruden looks like the genius coaching Tony's team. He's on top of the world! 2003 7-9 2004 5-11 2005 11-5 (0-1 in the playoffs) 2006 4-12 Meanwhile Dungy was improving the Colts... 2002 10-6 2003 12-4 2004 12-4 2005 14-2 2006 12-4 The salary cap hell Rich McKay put the Bucs in is a big factor in this debate... Bottom line, both teams have a championship in the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) The salary cap hell Rich McKay put the Bucs in is a big factor in this debate... Bottom line, both teams have a championship in the last 5 years. that really is the bottom line, and i have to think both teams are very happy with the guy they got, and wouldn't change things if they could do it all again. Edited February 8, 2007 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rodgers Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 that really is the bottom line, and i have to think both teams are very happy with the guy they got, and wouldn't change things if they could do it all again. Yeah I was waiting for this topic to surface because Dungy just won. I mean, I am a huge fan of Tony D but I just dont like it when people do the whole Dungy vs Chucky thing because it is just not fair. I also found this quote in an article I have been looking for. "The Bucs were destined for cap trouble before they even hoisted the Lombardi Trophy in San Diego. In fact, former New York Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum flew to Tampa to get a good look at Tampa Bay’s books in January 2002 per the request of Bill Parcells, who was contemplating taking the job as head coach with the Bucs. As it would turn out, Tannenbaum, who was slated to be the team’s general manager if Parcells took the head coaching job, looked at the player contracts that McKay did and advised Parcells not to take the job because the team’s Super Bowl window was closing fast before the team would be thrust into salary cap hell." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 You guys bring up good points about salary cap issues and such. Gruden is a good coach and of course Dungy is as well. I prefer Dungy and it's ok if someone else prefers Gruden. Gruden demands more recognition than Dungy does, imo. Maybe it isn't Chucky's doing that the Bucs have taken a dip while Tony's team has improved. Tony just isn't the chest thumping type that Gruden seems to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryTheRock Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Do you guys really believe that Dungy couldn't have won the big one if he coached that Bucs team or was Gruden the final piece to the puzzle to bring the ring to the Bucs? I see it as turning point for the decline of the Bucs team and a boost to the Colts team. As each year has passed it became more Gruden's team. As each year has passed the Bucs have basically taken a nose dive. Gruden took a team built by Dungy just as Callahan did the same in Oakland with Chucky's team in the same Super Bowl. Read this and then we will talk... "DID GRUDEN WON THE SUPER BOWL WITH DUNGY’S TEAM?" This myth, which was referenced as recently as last Saturday’s editorial in the Tampa Tribune that called for Gruden’s firing, is easy to debunk. Former Bucs head coach Tony Dungy did some great things in Tampa Bay, and he played an integral role in turning one of the league’s worst franchises into one of the best. However, Dungy didn’t win the Super Bowl with his own team, which is why he was fired. It’s completely fair to say Gruden inherited a playoff-caliber team. The Bucs had, after all, made the playoffs in four of Dungy’s six seasons in Tampa Bay. However, Gruden didn’t win with Dungy’s team. He completely retooled the offensive side of the ball, having former Bucs general manager Rich McKay sign eight players in 2002, including tackle Roman Oben, guard Kerry Jenkins, quarterback Rob Johnson, wide receivers Keenan McCardell and Joe Jurevicius, tight ends Ken Dilger and Rickey Dudley, and running back Michael Pittman. Each of those players started at least one game for the Bucs during their Super Bowl run. An analysis of the Super Bowl roster (including injured reserve) shows a total of 28 players brought in under the Gruden-McKay regime: OT Lomas Brown,_FB Darian Barnes,_LS Ryan Benjamin,_DT DeVone Claybrooks,_TE Casey Crawford,_LB Jack Golden, _OT Dan Goodspeed,_OT Cornell Green,_DT Buck Gurley,_FS Jermaine Phillips,_DE Greg Spires, P Tom Tupa,_CB Tim Wansley,_TE Daniel Wilcox, WR Charles Lee,_LB Ryan Nece,_LS Mike Solwold,_DE Corey Smith,_RB Travis Stephens_WR and Marquise Walker. That’s over half the roster. Dungy’s playoff teams in Tampa Bay scored a total of 59 points in six playoff contests, which averaged out to 9.8 points per contest. The Bucs also failed to score a touchdown in their final three playoff losses, including two in Philadelphia, which was the same place Gruden and the Bucs won 27-10 to advance to the Super Bowl. Yes, the Monte Kiffin-led defense carried the torch during Tampa Bay’s Super Bowl season, but the Bucs scored a total of 106 points in three post-season games, and Gruden’s offense did play a significant part in that. I could not read past "DID GRUDEN WON..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rodgers Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Gruden took a team built by Dungy just as Callahan did the same in Oakland with Chucky's team in the same Super Bowl. I could not read past "DID GRUDEN WON..." And if you did you would learn something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryTheRock Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 And if you did you would learn something. ...and if he would have learned to use WIN instead of WON it would have kept my attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rodgers Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 ...and if he would have learned to use WIN instead of WON it would have kept my attention. Oh go hang out with your dictionary and spell checker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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