Saints D being busted for bounty program

[rajncajn]

I'm sure absolutely no one outside of delusional Saints fans like myself and his family will believe him now, but Hargrove denies late hit on Favre had anything to do with a bounty.

[Furd]

I'm sure absolutely no one outside of delusional Saints fans like myself and his family will believe him now, but Hargrove denies late hit on Favre had anything to do with a bounty.

 

 

Too bad that's not relevant to the discussion.

[Azazello1313]

I'm sure absolutely no one outside of delusional Saints fans like myself and his family will believe him now, but Hargrove denies late hit on Favre had anything to do with a bounty.

 

oh well then if he says so I guess this whole thing should blow over.

[Papajohn]

Wasn't it against the Saints that AP said they tried to twist his leg in the pile shortly after he got hurt the first time?

 

Sorry if it has already been mentioned in the thread.

[rajncajn]

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL755/2599102/23869416/401500221.jpg

[tazinib1]

I'm pretty sure the NFL is happy to see Peyton taking over the spot light right now. If I were Goodell, I'd make damned sure to hand down a penalty before Peyton signs.

[rajncajn]

Regardless of where you stand on the subject, this is probably the most objective article I've seen regarding the bounty scandal and for anyone who is interested it gives some pretty insightful information regarding the investigation.

 

NFL has given no indication of timetable for bounty scandal punishment against New Orleans Saints

[bpwallace49]

Regardless of where you stand on the subject, this is probably the most objective article I've seen regarding the bounty scandal and for anyone who is interested it gives some pretty insightful information regarding the investigation.

 

NFL has given no indication of timetable for bounty scandal punishment against New Orleans Saints

 

 

Thank god for an impartial non partisan view like NOLA.COM

 

-sigh-

[rajncajn]

Thank god for an impartial non partisan view like NOLA.COM

 

-sigh-

Did you even read the article? If so, please enlighten me as to what part exactly you think is biased. I'm getting pretty sick of this bullCHIPS AHOY! of making out like everything I post is an attempt to detract or defend what the Saints did. Maybe it IS partly because they are my team, but my inherent nature is to try to be open-minded in everything, admittedly sometimes even to a fault. But I do believe in giving everyone a fair chance. Especially when all the facts are not out. So far I have seen both sides, both extremes in relation to this case. I've seen plenty of speculation and conjecture on the subject & plenty of information from unnamed sources reported as fact. I've also seen on the Saints boards some people saying that the Saints did absolutely nothing wrong. I prefer to think that I lie somewhere in the middle of all that. Believe me or don't believe me, I gave up giving a CHIPS AHOY! when i posted that I was done. If you have some productive discussion to contribute then do it, but how about you do everyone a favor, show a little respect and keep your smarmy comments to yourself. I don't mind the discourse, I don't mind the debate, but please, quit making the assumption that everything I post is from a homers perspective.

NFL has given no indication of timetable for bounty scandal punishment against New Orleans Saints

03/09/12 3:15AM

James Varney, The Times-Picayune

Though the NFL remained tight-lipped about its investigation into the alleged bounty system the Saints employed defensively the past three seasons, there were indications Thursday the punishments looming for the club, and perhaps some of its players, may not be imposed quickly.

Commissioner Roger Goodell has given no inkling of when he may announce the fines and suspensions that could be imposed against key Saints executives and players, or if the club will be stripped of draft picks. All of those possibilities were mentioned by the NFL when it revealed its investigation last Friday.

Still, operating more on experience and intuition given the dearth of clear signals, it was widely believed the league would act before the owners' meeting begins in Palm Beach, Fla., on March 26 when both Goodell and Coach Sean Payton are scheduled to hold press conferences. Fines and suspensions could be imposed at any time, the reasoning went, but the Saints do not have a first-round pick in next month's draft, and if the NFL is going to make the franchise even more short-handed in the draft, it would presumably provide New Orleans with time to assess its options.

On the other hand, when releasing the league's explosive report, Goodell said disciplinary action would not be taken until the NFL had conferred with the players' union and "individual player leaders." It does not appear any of that has begun, according to interviews with various parties involved in the matter.

The NFL declined comment when asked about its timetable. But the NFLPA, which released its most comprehensive statement to date on the scandal late Wednesday, has not yet launched what it considers an independent investigation of the matter, according to league sources. The union's probe could be further complicated by its potentially conflicting themes: protect the players who comprise its membership and ensure player safety is a paramount issue.

Although the Saints, like many clubs, often find themselves in an adversarial position vis-à-vis the NFLPA, in this case the two parties have strikingly similar stances. For example, both the franchise and the union have privately raised questions about the methodology of the NFL report. Nevertheless, Saints officials declined comment when asked if the club will cooperate with the union.

Saints not saying much

The uncertainty surrounding the hot topic explains, in part, the silence with which Saints players, including quarterback Drew Brees, have greeted the report. Brees remains embroiled in protracted contract negotiations. Although Brees has been in close contact with the NFLPA, of which he is an executive board member, he has made no comment on the bounty matter, and sources familiar with the matter said it's possible he will keep his distance for some time.

Similarly, two players named in accounts of the in-house "pay for performance" plan have thus far declined to speak with The Times-Picayune. Linebacker and defensive captain Jon Vilma has not responded to repeated requests for comment, although team officials have said he denies the NFL's contention he offered $10,000 to any player who knocked Vikings quarterback Brett Favre out of the 2009 NFC championship game. Former Saints linebacker Scott Fujita, now with the Cleveland Browns, acknowledged to Sports Illustrated he offered cash bonuses for high-impact plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries during the team's run to Super Bowl XLIV but flatly denied the money was for deliberately injurious plays.

That distinction goes to the heart of the matter for many players and the NFLPA. Since the NFL released its report, several former players have come forth and conceded that under-the-table bonus money is often paid for potentially game-changing plays but never for plays that sideline an opponent for some or all of a game. That sinister twist is precisely what the NFL alleges the Saints and former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams added to an already accepted practice.

'Bad in retrospect'

It was that difference that former Saints defensive tackle Anthony Hargrove stressed Thursday in a statement. Hargrove, now with Seattle, acknowledged a late hit on Favre and said he regrets both it and subsequent sideline comments, caught on tape by NFL Films, exulting that, "Favre is done!" Both the contact and the comment, however, were made from a purely competitive standpoint and in the furnace of the biggest football game of his life to that point, Hargrove said, and should not be construed as malicious.

"I readily agree that it sounds bad in retrospect," Hargrove's statement read. "A lot of things look bad when we look back and realize how they sound. ... But did I personally want Favre injured? Absolutely and categorically no! Did I feel like we, the Saints, had a better chance of being in the Super Bowl with Favre on the sideline? Of course. Would the Patriots and their fans have probably been excited to see Eli (Manning) on the bench with his foot up whispering that he was done? Would players on the sideline have made comments to that effect? Right or wrong, I'm guessing yes. Probably every Saints fan, player and coach got an adrenaline rush when thinking Minnesota might be in trouble. I said what many people were probably thinking, though maybe I said it in a way that sounded a bit too excited."

Indeed, both his emotion and his play are much closer to the NFL norm than the furor surrounding the allegations against the Saints have made it seem, according to Hargrove.

"I have made many mistakes in my life and have paid dearly for some of them, and the late hit and the comments were both mistakes, in my opinion," he wrote. "But players all over the league do the same thing every Sunday, make late hits and say stupid things. But I can say with absolute certainty that neither the late hit nor the comment have anything whatsoever to do with the issue being so hotly discussed in the media."

Scandal full of uncertainty

Goodell's statement said the NFL's report is based on thousands of pages of internal documents, believed to be emails and text messages and the like, the NFL gathered with the Saints permission earlier this year. In addition, the league said its investigation, tabled in 2010 when the original accuser recanted and Saints General Manager Mickey Loomis denied the existence of a bounty scheme, was reopened some time in 2011 when the NFL received "new and credible information."

Whether that new information was provided by a person or some document remains unclear, and the league has declined to elaborate. The NFLPA, which has requested copies of the documentation and a list of players and coaches the NFL may have interviewed during the course of its investigation, has thus far received only a sort of executive summary, according to people familiar with the situation.

Consequently, the union, which concedes it was blindsided by the report, remains largely in the dark about what NFL security officials used for their findings. The league planned to include names and precise detail in its report, but retracted much of that when the Saints objected serious accusations were being leveled without a clear picture of the supporting evidence.

The league also has declined to comment on new avenues of investigation it may have opened since last Friday. In particular, former players whom Williams coached in Buffalo and Washington have said they knew of "pay for performance" schemes with the Bills and the Redskins. He also was defensive coordinator in Jacksonville and Tennessee.

Whether Williams' former employers are now in the NFL's crosshairs is unclear. The Redskins have been approached by league investigators, according to published reports. Bills executives said Monday they were unaware of any NFL questions, but the club but did not respond to an email Thursday asking if that was still the case. A spokesman for the Jaguars said Thursday he did not know of any contact with the league but tried to deflect the matter back to the NFL headquarters in New York. Titans officials have not responded to the same questions.

The uniform backing of Williams by players underscores a fault line the scandal has laid bare between current and recently retired players and league executives and an older generation of players. The former group -- former Saints safety Darren Sharper is one example -- maintain they saw nothing wrong with internal systems that rewarded high-impact plays, again without the overtones of seeking to hurt an opponent, and have no problem with their existence. The latter -- Hall of Fame quarterback Fran Tarkenton is a prominent member -- have slapped a "coward" label on participants in the alleged scheme and urged Goodell to consider punishments as severe as dismissal.

[rajncajn]

Letter to the fans from Brees

 

A LETTER TO THE FANS

 

March 09, 2012

This has been an eventful offseason for me and my family. Brittany and I would like to thank all of you for the thoughtful words and well wishes since we announced that baby boy #3 is on the way. While we were all disappointed with the way the season ended, the offseason has given us the opportunity to reflect back on what was a truly memorable year. It has also given me the opportunity to enjoy some much needed quality time with my family.

 

I do feel a responsibility to my teammates, the Saints organization and to the fans, to address the "Bounty" allegations.

 

There is no place in the National Football League, or any sport played at any level, for players to conspire, to be coerced, or to be incentivized to intentionally injure another player. I did not participate in any Bounty program, nor did I have any knowledge relating to its real existence. I have spent the last several years as an Executive Committee Member of the NFLPA making health and safety a priority and I am proud of the advancements we've made and will continue to make.

 

As a leader of our football team, I feel comfortable in stating that I know well the integrity of our organization from the ownership level, to management, our head coach, and the players on our team. We, as Saints players, pride ourselves on playing this game with honor and hold ourselves to a very high standard. We also share a great sense of responsibility to our community and to each other, a strong belief in our purpose, a resiliency to overcome adversity and a work ethic and commitment to leave things better than we found them.

 

The accusations and perceptions alone created by this issue make us feel like we should all apologize to the young people that love our game and aspire to be in our shoes. Regardless of the outcome of the "bounty" issue, we owe it to them to provide the best example of how to behave as professionals and more importantly, as people of integrity.

 

To our fans, please reserve judgment until the investigation is complete and the facts in their entirety are known. We are all working diligently to find the truth in this matter and if the facts prove there was improper behavior, we will hold ourselves accountable. Until that time, we will stand together and remain united as an organization.

 

Thank you for your support.

 

Drew

 

Edited March 10, 2012 by rajncajn

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Since the Saints ownership clearly doesn't appreciate Drew and all he has done for the Saints and the city itself, and since he is surrounded by a bunch of morality free thugs, it would be best for Brees to move on and play in Minnesota for the next couple years until Ponder is ready to be the guy.

[rajncajn]

Since the Saints ownership clearly doesn't appreciate Drew and all he has done for the Saints and the city itself, and since he is surrounded by a bunch of morality free thugs, it would be best for Brees to move on and play in Minnesota for the next couple years until Ponder is ready to be the guy.

 

You can have Manning. :oldrazz:

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

You can have Manning. :oldrazz:

 

 

He'll go to NO to replace Brees.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

"To our fans, please reserve judgment until the investigation is complete and the facts in their entirety are known. We are all working diligently to find the truth in this matter and if the facts prove there was improper behavior, we will hold ourselves accountable. Until that time, we will stand together and remain united as an organization." -Brees

 

 

So the Saints do not know the truth of their own behavior? They do not believe their behavior was improper, not for certain, though they have already issued statements purporting to be apologies taking responsibility for the behavior.

[bpwallace49]

"To our fans, please reserve judgment until the investigation is complete and the facts in their entirety are known. We are all working diligently to find the truth in this matter and if the facts prove there was improper behavior, we will hold ourselves accountable. Until that time, we will stand together and remain united as an organization." -Brees

 

 

So the Saints do not know the truth of their own behavior? They do not believe their behavior was improper, not for certain, though they have already issued statements purporting to be apologies taking responsibility for the behavior.

 

 

Williams and the saints brass were very quick to apologize. But if all the saints backers are right, then they have nothing to apologize for???

[Bronco Billy]

"To our fans, please reserve judgment until the investigation is complete and the facts in their entirety are known. We are all working diligently to find the truth in this matter and if the facts prove there was improper behavior, we will hold ourselves accountable. Until that time, we will stand together and remain united as an organization." -Brees

 

 

So the Saints do not know the truth of their own behavior? They do not believe their behavior was improper, not for certain, though they have already issued statements purporting to be apologies taking responsibility for the behavior.

 

 

"We're really, really, really sorry about that stuff that we didn't do, and if we did do it, that we aren't sure whether we did it."

[HowboutthemCowboys]

"We're really, really, really sorry we got caught."

 

 

 

this

[rajncajn]

Specialist who worked closely with New Orleans Saints said there were no bounties in 2011

 

03/13/12 11:10PM

James Varney, The Times-Picayune

 

In one of the highest-profile accusations ever leveled against a franchise, the NFL has said the New Orleans Saints for the past three years employed a diabolical system that paid cash bonuses to defensive players who injured opponents. For at least one-third of that stretch, however, the NFL is wrong, and no such bounties were ever in place, according to a physical and behavioral specialist who spent virtually the entire 2011 season with the Saints working closely with former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and his staff.

Duke Naipohn, the chief executive of Sleep Pointe and a self-described "fatigue risk management specialist," attended 16 of 18 games last season, often traveling on the team plane and bus. An unabashed admirer of Williams' essence and style, the consultant was granted unlimited access to defensive coaches' meetings, unit meetings, training rooms, the sideline and the locker room.

At no point in any of those settings, Naipohn told The Times-Picayune on Tuesday, was money paid for a play that injured an opponent. Indeed, such a scheme was never even discussed during 2011, and Naipohn argued its alleged core is not in keeping with what he called "the unmatched professionalism" he observed by the Saints' organization and players.

"None of that was going on," he said. "There was no calling out of names, there was never, 'We're going to take this guy out,' and here's $5,000, nothing like that."

Naipohn confirmed, however, that side betting on performance was rampant among players. In a statement issued March 2 after the NFL released its explosive report, Williams acknowledged fostering and participating in a "pay for performance" system, but he never used the word "bounty" or directly confirmed the NFL's allegation the Saints rewarded "knockout" or "cart-off" hits that forced an opponent to the sideline for all or part of a game.

"Players were making side bets," Naipohn said. "You know, 'I'll get a pick before you,' or 'I'll get a pick and you won't,' or 'I'll have more red zone tackles than you,' big plays."

A nearly identical take on things was provided Tuesday by Saints cornerback Tracy Porter, who noted Williams' apology has been widely misconstrued.

"I mean, I haven't really read in-depth the accusations, but all I hear is 'bounty, bounty, bounty,' and there's no bounty," Porter said. "There's not a bounty. I mean, (Williams) came out and said it was a 'pay for play.' So it wasn't a thing of going out and saying, 'We're going to hurt this guy, we're going to hurt that guy.' We came out saying, you know, 'You make an impactful play then you get compensated for it.' That's something that we had in-house. But there was never any ... I can sit here and say there was never any bounty where we said, 'Oh we're going to go out there and hurt this guy.'"

 

[bpwallace49]

Thank God you are keeping us up to date on this on a daily basis. I will wait for the next installment of ( what the cable guy observed at saints HQ that supports the saints) tomorrow.

 

 

[rajncajn]

Thank God you are keeping us up to date on this on a daily basis. I will wait for the next installment of ( what the cable guy observed at saints HQ that supports the saints) tomorrow.

 

 

 

Thank God you don't have anything better to do.