Hero or Murderer?

[isleseeya]

Reading the thread most of the day

 

and i gotta say , someone breaks in your house , its pretty easy to snap ...adrenaline has to be pumping ...i think when it comes to family , people will do almost anything to protect them ..and even shoot first and ask questions later ...even shoot when perhaps its not necessary ...afterwards when the dust settles , the law has to come into play and all in all this guy should face charges imho

[dmarc117]

So, to clarify: You hear someone in your house. You grab your gun. You quietly walk down the hallway and see dude going for your stereo. You shoot him on the spot?

 

 

yes.....im not going to ask him for a smoke!! how do you know if he has a gun?!???!?! do you know his intentions?!?!?!? is he ther ejust to take your stereo, kill you, rape your family??!?!?! im not gonna ask him, until he has a bullet in his body. or maybe more.

[Skippy]

So, to clarify: You hear someone in your house. You grab your gun. You quietly walk down the hallway and see dude going for your stereo. You shoot him on the spot?

I'm not going to answer anymore of these questions for fear that it will be pulled up off of my computer when I sneak down the steps and empty the 12 gauge on the guy stealing my computer.

 

Are you saying that you have sympathy for people that are only in people’s houses to steal things like stereos?

[detlef]

Reading the thread most of the day

 

and i gotta say , someone breaks in your house , its pretty easy to snap ...adrenaline has to be pumping ...i think when it comes to family , people will do almost anything to protect them ..and even shoot first and ask questions later ...even shoot when perhaps its not necessary ...afterwards when the dust settles , the law has to come into play and all in all this guy should face charges imho

Just to be sure. You do realize that basically none of the things you mentioned in your post have anything to do what happened in the story H8M8 posted. I couldn't tell based on how you closed your point.

[Skippy]

afterwards when the dust settles , the law has to come into play and all in all this guy should face charges imho

This guy in this story will probably face charges and I think he should. Getting that jury to convict is a different story.

 

Around these parts, juries are pretty okay with shooting people in your house. This story was not about people in his house. I am just saying that at this point I think we are talking about more than one thing.

[detlef]

I'm not going to answer anymore of these questions for fear that it will be pulled up off of my computer when I sneak down the steps and empty the 12 gauge on the guy stealing my computer.

 

Are you saying that you have sympathy for people that are only in people’s houses to steal things like stereos?

I thought I made it very clear that my concerns are not to protect those who are breaking in rather to avoid needlessly burdening you and your family with the reality that you killed someone in your own home. Obviously the alternative could be worse, but that's not the point.

 

I don't own a gun and can't imagine what circumstances I would ever think of owning one. I'm truly curious how people would truly act in this situation. Say, for instance, all the bedrooms are upstairs. Would you not consider quietly getting your kids into the master bedroom, grabbing your gun and yelling downstairs that you have a gun and dude better get the hell out of your house? I mean, you run the risk of them getting away with some loot, but we have insurance for that. Are you so fired up about somebody violating your home that you would prefer to have him dead rather than avoiding the conflict entirely?

[I Like Soup]

Man do I hate to get into a hugh debate over this but I think I am one of the narrow minded people that thinks that people that break into a house to rob anything very much run the risk of being shoot, and I have zero problem with it. I have never broken into anyone’s house and so far as I know not a single person that I know, (other than one drug addict), has either. It's just something that you know you don't do.

 

This is a story from when I was much younger but it is still something very much on my mind.

 

I was in a convenience store near my house where the mother of a girl that I dated in high school worked. She was probably 55 or so at the time and a very kind older lady. In comes a thug that pointed a gun in her face and demanded the money. I was near the back of the store and did not even see the start of this. I came up the isle and see him standing there and starting to get really agitated. He starts screaming and pointing that gun down at her as she is now so scared that she is starting to hide behind the counter. He shouts "I swear to god bit ch, if you don't open that drawer and give me the money, I am going to blow your fr ucking head off". At that point I reach under my coat and pull my 357 from its shoulder holster and think for what seemed to be an hour about what I should do. This guy never ever saw me back there and I had a clear shot at his head. He finally got frustrated and pushed the register off the counter. At that point a car pulled into the lot and he ran out the door.

 

To this day I sort of wish that I would have shoot him. That lady never came back to work there again and that same guy robbed several more convenience stores while he did shoot one of the workers before Pittsburgh police caught the guy. They had camera pictures of this guy and everything and he was able to stay on a convenience store robbery spree for a few weeks.

 

Now my life would have been way different, I am sure, if I shot this guy in the side of his head but man I swear I just don't have the tolerance for it.

 

Unateve - I need to schedule a few sessions.

 

Daayyuumm...remind me to refrain from lifting a black chip or two from you next year in Vegas...

 

Well, if you have the balls to stick around the whole weekend!

 

Let me put it this way:

 

I have ZERO tolerance for an intruder coming into my house uninvited. I would not consider asking questions of him, checking to see if he is armed or anything. My wife, my children, my dog, is in this house that is supposed to be a shelter from the outside. You break in; you probably are not going to get out alive. Could I live with that? I really do think so but I am not 100% sure.

 

I kind of think this too, but I guess you never know how you'll feel after.

 

So, to clarify: You hear someone in your house. You grab your gun. You quietly walk down the hallway and see dude going for your stereo. You shoot him on the spot?

 

I was actually thinking about this last night lying in bed. If I hear a noise and I go to investigate and I see someone before they see me, do I take the chance that they aren't going to gun me down if I react too late, or do I shoot the guy since I don't want to risk not having a second chance at a potentially life threatening situation.

Edited November 29, 2007 by I Like Soup

[detlef]

yes.....im not going to ask him for a smoke!! how do you know if he has a gun?!???!?! do you know his intentions?!?!?!? is he ther ejust to take your stereo, kill you, rape your family??!?!?! im not gonna ask him, until he has a bullet in his body. or maybe more.

Assume any question I ever ask is not directed to you. Not necc. based on your response here but because time and again you've shown yourself to be a total moran.

[Skippy]

I thought I made it very clear that my concerns are not to protect those who are breaking in rather to avoid needlessly burdening you and your family with the reality that you killed someone in your own home. Obviously the alternative could be worse, but that's not the point.

 

I don't own a gun and can't imagine what circumstances I would ever think of owning one. I'm truly curious how people would truly act in this situation. Say, for instance, all the bedrooms are upstairs. Would you not consider quietly getting your kids into the master bedroom, grabbing your gun and yelling downstairs that you have a gun and dude better get the hell out of your house? I mean, you run the risk of them getting away with some loot, but we have insurance for that. Are you so fired up about somebody violating your home that you would prefer to have him dead rather than avoiding the conflict entirely?

By me invoking my right to take the fifth, I think you can probably tell that I am not hiding upstairs and yelling. ZERO TOLERENCE.

[dmarc117]

Assume any question I ever ask is not directed to you. Not necc. based on your response here but because time and again you've shown yourself to be a total moran.

 

 

admit your a pu$$y and you have a deal. you want to burn the rich duke kids at the stake without asking questions and getting facts. but lets sit down and have some tea with the burglar to see what he really is after to avoid confrontation. you friggin make me sick momo.

Edited November 29, 2007 by dmarc117

[Ursa Majoris]

So, to clarify: You hear someone in your house. You grab your gun. You quietly walk down the hallway and see dude going for your stereo. You shoot him on the spot?

Without a second thought - as long as the circumstances are as described.

[Ursa Majoris]

Just to be sure. You do realize that basically none of the things you mentioned in your post have anything to do what happened in the story H8M8 posted. I couldn't tell based on how you closed your point.

I agree - but there is a world of difference between what the guy in TX did and the hypothetical you asked me, where the intruder is actually inside my premises. As far as I'm concerned, all his rights were left on the welcome mat outside the door and I'm pretty certain that even in Minnesota I'd be highly unlikely to be convicted by a jury.

[jetsfan]

What exactly is heroic about this?

 

he cared about his neighbors

 

I am happy that I live in Texas.

[detlef]

admit your a pu$$y and you have a deal. you want to burn the rich duke kids at the stake without asking questions and getting facts. but lets sit down and have some tea with the burglar to see what he really is after to avoid confrontation. you friggin make me sick momo.

As usual, your comments are entirely devoid of fact. Feel free to search my posts on the issue but I'm basically guilty of the same sentiment many show when some thug tries his luck too many times and gets shot. My statements the entire time said they did not deserve to go down for rape if they didn't do it, but let's quit calling these guys choir boys and if you play with fire, you get burned.

 

Hmm. Sounds sort of familiar. When players from the Duke Lax team where tearing sinks off the walls and trashing the restaurant next door to mine. When they were reaching over my bar and stealing liquor from the rail, would it have been cool with you if I shot them?

 

If I had to guess, you'd probably crap your pants and shoot your own foot off if face with this situation. Nothing you have ever stated has shown you to be a man worthy of a well reasoned or mature thought. You eagerly lap down whatever the fear mongers sell and, frankly, paint yourself to be among the biggest cowards here. That you occasionally puff up your chest does little to hide this rather apparent fact. Enjoy your pathetic little life.

Edited November 29, 2007 by detlef

[dmarc117]

Assume any question I ever ask is not directed to you. Not necc. based on your response here but because time and again you've shown yourself to be a total moran.

 

 

As usual, your comments are entirely devoid of fact. Feel free to search my posts on the issue but I'm basically guilty of the same sentiment many show when some thug tries his luck too many times and gets shot. My statements the entire time said they did not deserve to go down for rape if they didn't do it, but let's quit calling these guys choir boys and if you play with fire, you get burned.

 

Hmm. Sounds sort of familiar. When players from the Duke Lax team where tearing sinks off the walls and trashing the restaurant next door to mine. When they were reaching over my bar and stealing liquor from the rail, would it have been cool with you if I shot them?

 

If I had to guess, you'd probably crap your pants and shoot your own foot off if face with this situation. Nothing you have ever stated has shown you to be a man worthy of a well reasoned or mature thought. You eagerly lap down whatever the fear mongers sell and, frankly, paint yourself to be among the biggest cowards here. That you occasionally puff up your chest does little to hide this rather apparent fact. Enjoy your pathetic little life.

 

are you asking me a question?

[detlef]

<<Dwight Shrute>> "Un-shunned. Now answer the question"" <<Dwight Shrute>>

[dmarc117]

<<Dwight Shrute>> "Un-shunned. Now answer the question"" <<Dwight Shrute>>

 

 

only if they tried to run away. and was it top shelf or rail liquor? i need more facts.

Edited November 29, 2007 by dmarc117

[TheGrunt]

Just out of curiosity. How literally are you guys saying "shoot first, ask questions later" when it comes to an intruder in your house?

 

I'm not asking this out of protection for the robber's life, rather to discuss having to live with the fact that you killed a man. That's got to leave an emotional scar even if it is within your rights.

 

To what extent would you avoid this eventuality? If only to protect your children from the reality that a man was shot in their home as much as protect them from potential physical danger.

I'd assess the situation as quick as time allows for, but only after direct observation of the attacker, if I found that he had a weapon - I'd shoot. Right at that moment the trigger is pulled.

 

edited: removed unnecessary stuff.

Edited November 29, 2007 by TheGrunt

[Front Row]

Mr. Horn may have went to far by inflicting the lethal blows, I'm not sure if the perps were armed ; if he would have just wounded em a bit, say in the ass with some salt shot or such , I think he would be heroic. Then he and his would have retribution to think of.

 

Well a man, come on

Six o'clock news

Says somebody been shot

Somebody's been abused

Somebody blew up a building

Somebody stole their car

Somebody got away

Somebody didn't get too far, yeah

They didn't get too far

 

Grandpappy told my pappy

Back in my day, son

A man had to answer

For the wicked thing he done

Take all the rope in Texas

Find a tall oak tree

Round up all of them bad boys

And hang 'em high in the street

For all the people to see

 

And justice is the one thing

You should always find

You gotta saddle up your boys

You gotta draw a hard line

When the gun smoke settles

We'll sing a victory tune

And we'll all meet back

At the local saloon

 

We'll raises up our glasses

Against evil forces

Singing, "Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses!"

 

We got too many gangsters

Doing dirty deeds

Too much corruption

And crime in the streets

It's time the long arm of the law

Put a few more in the ground

Send them all to their Maker

And he'll set them on down

You can bet, He'll set 'em down

 

Cause justice is the one thing

You should always find

You gotta saddle up your boys

You gotta draw a hard line

When the gunsmoke settles

We'll sing a victory tune

And we'll all meet back

At the local saloon

 

And we'll raise up our glasses

Against evil forces

Singing, "Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses!"

Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses!

 

You know justice is the one thing

You should always find

You gotta saddle up your boys

You gotta draw a hard line

When the gunsmoke settles

We'll sing a victory tune

And we'll all met back

At the local saloon

 

We'll raise up our glasses

Against evil forces

Singing, "Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses!"

Singing ,"Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses!'

[H8tank]

You deserve to die stealing from someones home.

 

In my yard looking at my truck 2am? I will SHOOT to kill with no hesitation.

[evil_gop_liars]

You deserve to die stealing from someones home.

 

In my yard looking at my truck 2am? I will SHOOT to kill with no hesitation.

 

Will you kill or risk your life for your neighbors property?

 

If yes, will you be my neighbor?

[Skippy]

Will you kill or risk your life for your neighbors property?

 

If yes, will you be my neighbor?

I'm not thinking that I would have done what Mr. Horn did but that may be more because I don't want to be in the trouble that he may be facing. On the other hand, if I saw you enter into one of my neighbors houses in the middle of the night, (all my neighbors are pretty old), I might come hunting for you. I have never had it in me to sit and watch people pick on the weak. I could tell a long story from my high school days when a kid made fun of an old man with a wooden leg but it would take a long time to tell and in the end it just ends up the kid got his ass kicked good and then the dad of the kid got his ass kicked also. I never let people pick on the weak. Someday when I get older and weaker, I hope some clown like me has my back.

[ChuckB]

I thought I made it very clear that my concerns are not to protect those who are breaking in rather to avoid needlessly burdening you and your family with the reality that you killed someone in your own home. Obviously the alternative could be worse, but that's not the point.

 

I don't own a gun and can't imagine what circumstances I would ever think of owning one. I'm truly curious how people would truly act in this situation. Say, for instance, all the bedrooms are upstairs. Would you not consider quietly getting your kids into the master bedroom, grabbing your gun and yelling downstairs that you have a gun and dude better get the hell out of your house? I mean, you run the risk of them getting away with some loot, but we have insurance for that. Are you so fired up about somebody violating your home that you would prefer to have him dead rather than avoiding the conflict entirely?

 

 

 

This is what you're supposed to do....get to a safe room. But Det, you do realize how often a run of the mill burglary turns into murder because the criminal was surprised by someone being home, right? Thes are criminals that just want some quick loot, but can escalate into them becoming murderers real quick.

 

My house is small, if I hear something, I don't have a chance to get the kids into a safe room before something bad goes down. Soon as I come out of my room I would be a target for an intruder....so I would come out carefully and packin... If I see someone who shouldn't be there, I'm shooting immediately before they can get to me or in a position between me and my family, which would likely prevent me from being able to shoot. I NEVER want to have to take someones life no matter how big a low life they are, but bottom line is I'm concerned for my family's and my life first....their's last.

[Furd]

Its kinda hard to protect your family when you are in jail.

 

You might want to think about that before you run downstairs and cap a guy who is posing no imminent threat to you or your family.

[Furd]

I'm truly curious how people would truly act in this situation. Say, for instance, all the bedrooms are upstairs. Would you not consider quietly getting your kids into the master bedroom, grabbing your gun and yelling downstairs that you have a gun and dude better get the hell out of your house?

 

 

That's exactly what you should do in that situation.

 

1) You know where all of your family members are.

 

2)You've interposed yourself between the intruder and your family which means that you are assured that he has got to get around you to get at them. Plus, there is the added bonus that it is highly unlikely that you will shoot one of your family members unintentionally if they are behind you.

 

3) If the guy is a total dumbass and tries to come up the stairs, it will be difficult for anybody to accuse you of a nonjustified shooting, particularly if you told the guy that you have a gun and are going to shoot his ass if he tries to come upstairs;

 

4) You don't go downstairs to walk into someone else's ambush. If necessary, allow the intruder walk into yours.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Furd