The Economy and Stock Market

[bpwallace49]

Guys, how hard is this to understand - if your family was starving and you could feed them by stealing, would you? Regardless of that answer, could you really condemn another man for doing so?

 

I'm not equating that to tax evasion, but merely to illustrate the ambivalent feelings of "I don't condone it, but I could certainly understand it."

 

Now, Greece has ridiculous taxes, NOT just an income tax. If I'm not mistaken, they have more fees, permits, property taxes, and a VAT. At what point does it go from being seedy and dishonest, to merely survival? If total taxes on your income ended up being something like 70% (that's income, sales, VAT, fees, whatever) can you not understand that the person evading such onerous redistribution might not not really be "bad", but just, well, just sick of it? If 28 of your 40 hours/week went to support things like the DMV, post office and SS administration (the surliest, most unhelpful folks in gov't I could think of), can you not see a point where people would say f##K this!?

 

Here is a tidbit from the article on tax evasion.

 

Meanwhile, in a government survey last year of 150 doctors in Kolonaki, an upmarket Athens neighborhood, half of the doctors said they were paid less than €30,000 a year. Thirty said they made less than €10,000.

 

"It is not possible for a taxpayer to declare an income of €15,000 while at the same time maintaining a big house, a big car, a recreational boat and sending his kids to private school," Mr. Papaconstantinou said Tuesday.

 

Is this like when Latrell Sprewell in the NBA turned down a 21 million dollar 3 year contract because "it wasnt enough to feed his kids"?

[Ursa Majoris]

Guys, how hard is this to understand - if your family was starving and you could feed them by stealing, would you? Regardless of that answer, could you really condemn another man for doing so?

 

I'm not equating that to tax evasion, but merely to illustrate the ambivalent feelings of "I don't condone it, but I could certainly understand it."

 

Now, Greece has ridiculous taxes, NOT just an income tax. If I'm not mistaken, they have more fees, permits, property taxes, and a VAT. At what point does it go from being seedy and dishonest, to merely survival? If total taxes on your income ended up being something like 70% (that's income, sales, VAT, fees, whatever) can you not understand that the person evading such onerous redistribution might not not really be "bad", but just, well, just sick of it? If 28 of your 40 hours/week went to support things like the DMV, post office and SS administration (the surliest, most unhelpful folks in gov't I could think of), can you not see a point where people would say f##K this!?

Greeks evade taxes on a monumental scale to prevent their children starving?

[Perchoutofwater]

Here is a tidbit from the article on tax evasion.

 

 

 

Is this like when Latrell Sprewell in the NBA turned down a 21 million dollar 3 year contract because "it wasnt enough to feed his kids"?

 

Half the doctors there make less than $37,871and 20% of them make $12,624 (that is below the poverty line here in the US). That isn't exactly Latrell Sprewell money.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[cre8tiff]

Good thing you pessimists have Greece to talk about.

 

Stocks just finished thier best three day performance in TEN MONTHS!!

 

Edited May 12, 2010 by cre8tiff

[Perchoutofwater]

Good thing you pessimists have Greece to talk about.

 

Stocks just finished thier best three day performance in TEN MONTHS!!

 

 

The DOW is still 120 points lower than it was this time last week, and the Nasdaq is still 28 points lower than it was this time last week, and the S&P is 10 points lower than it was this time last week.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[SEC=UGA]

Good thing you pessimists have Greece to talk about.

 

Stocks just finished thier best three day performance in TEN MONTHS!!

 

 

SELL NOW!!!! RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FROM THE MARKET, RUN FOR THE Fing HILLS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There could be a third wave joke in here somewhere, but I ain't touching that topic... too stupid to try or want to understand it, I guess.

Edited May 12, 2010 by SEC=UGA

[westvirginia]

Good thing you pessimists have Greece to talk about.

 

Stocks just finished thier best three day performance in TEN MONTHS!!

 

 

Yeah, after the 3-day slide they went on at the end of last week... Oh, wait, you're serious?

[bpwallace49]

Half the doctors there make less than $37,871and 20% of them make $12,624 (that is below the poverty line here in the US). That isn't exactly Latrell Sprewell money.

 

Are you kidding me? They make over 67k per year in REPORTED income . . and that was in 2004 Where do you get this stuff from perch?

 

you DO realize that is only what is reported to the gubmnet for taxes . . right? What they make "on the side" is significantly more? hence the problem of 25% of their GDP (really think about that for a moment . . 25% of their GDP) is lost in tax evasion every year.

Edited May 12, 2010 by bpwallace49

[Perchoutofwater]

Are you kidding me? They make over 67k per year in REPORTED income . . and that was in 2004 Where do you get this stuff from perch?

 

you DO realize that is only what is reported to the gubmnet for taxes . . right? What they make "on the side" is significantly more? hence the problem of 35% of their GDP (really think about that for a moment . . 25% of their GDP) is lost in tax evasion every year.

 

Your earlier post in this thread (#177) is where I got the numbers from. I converted euros to dollars based on 1.26237 exchange rate. I guess I shouldn't trust what you post

 

Never mind, I went back and re-read it. That is what they are reporting as income. Sorry!

Edited May 12, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[bpwallace49]

Your earlier post in this thread (#177) is where I got the numbers from. I converted euros to dollars based on 1.26237 exchange rate. I guess I shouldn't trust what you post

 

 

Perch . . did you READ the article???? That was an example of how corrupt the system of tax evasion is . Wealthy doctors are claiming a very small fraction of what their ACTUAL income is. people with huge houses claiming they make less than 30K a year . . . That specific line was used to show how rampant tax evasion is . . . . .

 

Good job on the math with the euro conversion . . . but your reading skills might be a little rusty.

 

EDIT . . I am glad you went back and re-read it . . .

Edited May 12, 2010 by bpwallace49

[cre8tiff]

Yeah, after the 3-day slide they went on at the end of last week... Oh, wait, you're serious?

 

So you are unhappy the DIJ is 10,896.91? That it is roughly at the same point as when the slide started?

 

Were you perhaps hoping the slide would continue?

[Ursa Majoris]

Were you perhaps hoping the slide would continue?

Yes. Yes he was. None of the right want any kind of success under the "Obamessiah".

[bpwallace49]

I really think that WV hates Obama so much that he would be happy if the USA suffered under his presidency. Sad to see . . .

[Perchoutofwater]

So you are unhappy the DIJ is 10,896.91? That it is roughly at the same point as when the slide started?

 

Were you perhaps hoping the slide would continue?

 

It is off 1.1% from where it was a week before. Since are so happy with that, please send me 1.1% of your net worth. Seriously, I'm not upset, but I'm far from jumping for joy like you are. I am also still very concerned about the future, when we just gave I think it was $48 Billion to prop Greece up. We have to pay for that somehow, on top of paying for Obamacare which is costing more than they said, and we are running at record deficits. It isn't a bright sunny out look.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[bpwallace49]

It could be worse . . . you could nOT live in America . . .

 

How Rich Are You?

by Jeanine Skowronski

 

 

At least according to Poke, a London-based creative company that specializes in interactive media. Their Web site, The Global Rich List generates a wealth ranking for its users based on their annual income.

For example, if you make $52,000 a year (the median American household income for 2009), you are the 58,252,719 richest person in the world (or in the top 0.97 percentile of all moneymakers).

 

Someone who makes half of that ($26,000 a year) is still in the top 10%, ranked 569,942,529 on the Global Rich List.

 

These calculations are based on figures from the World Bank Development Research Group. To calculate an individual's position on the list, Poke assumes that the world's total population is 6 billion and the average worldwide annual income is $5,000.

 

 

The site uses your wealth ranking to invite you to share your wealth with others. It told me, for example, I could buy 25 fruit trees for farmers in Honduras for just $8 (as opposed to 12 organic oranges for the same price) or a $30 first aid kit for a village in Haiti (instead of an ER DVD box set). However silly these suggestions may be (who spends $30 to watch ER?), charitable giving is clearly the point.

 

According to the site, Poke "wanted to do something which would help people understand, in real terms, where they stand globally. They want us to realize that, in fact, most of us who are able to view this web page are in the privileged minority."

 

So in case you're missing the subtext here … the site doesn't exist just so you can tell all of your friends just how rich you are.

[Perchoutofwater]

Yes. Yes he was. None of the right want any kind of success under the "Obamessiah".

 

 

I really think that WV hates Obama so much that he would be happy if the USA suffered under his presidency. Sad to see . . .

 

That is crap and you both know it. Nobody wants to lose money, that is just stupid. There is a big difference in thinking that Obama's policies are going to cause failure and hoping that they do. Frankly most of this isn't Obama's fault, though he has added a bunch of fuel to the fire with his stealfromus package and obamacare.

[cre8tiff]

It is off 1.1% from where it was a week before. Since are so happy with that, please send me 1.1% of your net worth. Seriously, I'm not upset, but I'm far from jumping for joy like you are. I am also still very concerned about the future, when we just gave I think it was $48 Billion to prop Greece up. We have to pay for that somehow, on top of paying for Obamacare which is costing more than they said, and we are running at record deficits. It isn't a bright sunny out look.

 

I think we need to start calling you Debbie Downer.

 

The fact the market recovered should be something considered good news.

[bushwacked]

That is crap and you both know it.

 

Who you trying to fool, fool?

Edited May 12, 2010 by bushwacked

[Ursa Majoris]

It could be worse . . . you could nOT live in America . . .

The site's basic premise is at fault, since $10,000 pa here is chump change while the same sum in e.g. Sierra Leone would enable you to literally live like a king. There are no "real terms globally"

 

According to the site, Poke "wanted to do something which would help people understand, in real terms, where they stand globally. They want us to realize that, in fact, most of us who are able to view this web page are in the privileged minority."

[Brentastic]

Good thing you pessimists have Greece to talk about.

 

Stocks just finished thier best three day performance in TEN MONTHS!!

 

Investor complacency is obsene right now. I mean really, the Fed and all the big banks must just laugh at all the sheep.

 

On a sidenote - are you guys really still quibbling about left and right... Please realize the magnitude of global corruption. The left and right are on the same team, they work for the global elite, the central bankers who really run the world. Maybe if we focused on the real problem, we could make a difference. All it would take is mass non-compliance and we could rid the elite scum from our control. That's really all it would take.

[Ursa Majoris]

the global elite, the central bankers who really run the world.

[cre8tiff]

Ups and downs. Been seeing it my whole life. The sky is not falling and a glitch helped to set up a sell off. Greece is also a concern as is the rest of the EU. Thursday produced the largest in session decline of the Dow in history and we are just reaching double the value of your predicted Dow level that was supposed to have been surpassed by now according to you.

 

I think what Ursa is trying to say is... You seem to know a lot of stuff. You have read a lot of books and even studied this a bit. While that may translate into knowledge that He, I, and many other Huddlers don't have, it hasn't translated into you being very good at predicting the Dow Jones Industrial futures.

 

Ursa is Him? whooooaah

[Ursa Majoris]

Ursa is Him? whooooaah

Yes indeed.

[westvirginia]

So you are unhappy the DIJ is 10,896.91? That it is roughly at the same point as when the slide started?

 

Were you perhaps hoping the slide would continue?

 

 

Yes. Yes he was. None of the right want any kind of success under the "Obamessiah".

 

 

I really think that WV hates Obama so much that he would be happy if the USA suffered under his presidency. Sad to see . . .

 

This is idiocy. Number one, the point I was making is that the market has just recovered lost ground. Period. End of story. That the three-day jump was just marching in-place after the three-day slide immediately preceding it. Second, I WAY hope the obamessiah fails. Falls flat on his face. One-term loser. But that's a FAR cry from hoping this country fails. obamessiah is the antithesis of Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and Sam Adams. So if he fails, then the country must be pretty strong.

 

So go ahead my imaginary friends, twist my words and distort what I've said. You guys are so married to your guy that you have to demonize anyone who disagrees. But that's OK, enjoy your mental illness.

[Ursa Majoris]

So go ahead my imaginary friends, twist my words and distort what I've said. You guys are so married to your guy that you have to demonize anyone who disagrees. But that's OK, enjoy your mental illness.

We clearly disagree fundamentally on the correct course for the country but you, Perch and others take it to extremes. Earlier you tried to tie Obama into a forty-year-old quote which was just ridiculous. I think we're a lot less married to Obama than you are to your anti-Obama obsessions.