The Vatican Hitsquad Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 That is correct. I've been a stage actor for twenty years, and I can tell you from experience that how an actor interprets the script can make all the difference in the world. What Ledger did with this role was absolutely amazing. His gestures, tics, mannerisms and delivery of the lines was all him becoming the character of the Joker. That's very hard to teach and makes his portrayal all the more outstanding. +1 If it were just a case of reading the words written on a page, well, then ANYBODY could play a role then, right? Anybody could have played Jack Sparrow the way Depp did, and anybody could have played Bill the Butcher the way Daniel Day Lewis did. Words are words, and not to be undervalued. But an actors ability to make those words memorable, not just believable, is the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Stan Lee said at the San Diego Comic Con that finally people get to see that these characters have more to them than just a costume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSUChiefsTarheelFan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 One has to wonder just how deep he got into the role and how far down the dark rabbit hole he went. Seriously, if I did that role and did it as well as he did, I'm pretty sure I'd be changed permanently, for life. Heath Leger was a method actor...and Michael Caine pretty much backs it up. Oct 11 2007 During the press junket for the dramatic thriller Sleuth1, Michael Caine provided an update on one of the most anticipated movies of 2008, The Dark Knight2. Caine’s excited about being a part of the second Batman film starring Christian Bale3 and directed by Christopher Nolan, although he initially found one of his new co-stars a little creepy... Tackling the Role of Alfred One More Time: “I was the butler in the first one, Batman Begins4, which I thought was the best Batman ever -- and this one will be better,” revealed Caine. “The big surprise out of this will be what we thought was a big problem inasmuch as we're doing, although it's called The Dark Knight with a ‘kn’, it was the Joker. There, you've got the shadow of Jack Nicholson as the Joker, which is an incredible performance. Then we've got Heath Ledger who's gone in a completely and terrifyingly different direction and is extraordinary. He'll be the big surprise in that. He'll frighten the life out of you. He did me the first time I saw him, because we did a rehearsal on the first day and we hadn't met or anything. He had to come up in an elevator to our home, Batman's home. I'm thinking I'm letting friends in, instead of which he's killed them all and he's coming up in the lift. So on the first rehearsal, I've never seen him. He has like seven dwarves with him, like Snow White, only it's not like that. When the bloody door opened on that lift, he came tearing out. I forgot every line. Terrifying.” And then he said this...right at about the :30 part...BANG! genius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Spoilers Ahead Interesting takes from some of you. While I watched the TV show as a kid (one of my most notable "famous customer" stories from my time in the restaurant industry was Adam West, very cool) and I saw all 5 previous films (liked 1,3 & 5, not 2 & 4), I owned no comics and really had no expectations of this film before I saw it. That being said, I disagree with many on a couple of points. I enjoyed the movie very much from beginning to end (all 150 minutes of it) and disagree that it was too long. I never felt the pace lessen and I never looked at my watch. I thought there were a couple of plot holes that were glossed over (like when the Joker raids Bruce Wayne's party and throws Gyllenhall out the window. Batman saves her, but they never revisit the Joker continuing the search for Dent in Waynes penthouse. What? did he just leave quietly? ) On the whole, however, I thought these holes were forgiveable. I did think the sub-plot about the Wayne enterprises attorney who discovered the Batmobile plans was completely unnecessary. For all the accolades Heath Ledger is recieving for his Joker, I thought Eckhart was just as good, and the Two-Face character was more central to the overall theme and feel of the movie. The Joker's confession of his "Dent" plan and Gordon's observations that the plan was successful "The Joker's won" are at the heart of the film. The fall of Harvey Dent solidifies the somber and realistic tone of this film (not to mention I was impressed by how authentically his injuriy was presented) Dent is the only dynamic character in the movie, and while, if you know the character, you know what is coming for him, Eckhart is able to play the role in such a way as to make the transition emotional; and believable. Two Face made the movie for me. Ledger was truly captivating. He stole every scene and I found myself rooting for him as much as Batman in this movie. His humor was potent, yet not overdone. It was hard not to smile when he was on the screen. Sadly, his death will forever color this performance and it will be near impossible to say how his performance would have been viewed otherwise. I thought his scene in the interrogation room with Batman was great. He had some wonderful dialogue, though much of it was lost because Batman was beating the crap out of him while he delivered it. "I''m ahead of the curve" (as Batman slams him against the table) I thoroughly enjoyed his admitted affection for Batman. []i"Kill you? Why would I want to kill you?? You complete me!" [/i] Great rehash of a bad line! FWIW, my wife noticed a veiled reference to Catwoman early in the film. I did not catch it at the time. After Batman is attacked by the dog early in the film and is asking Morgan Freeman for some new armor, and whether or not it will work against dogs, Freeman says "It will work against any kind of cat." MAybe it's nothing, but it was an odd line if not a teaser, I thought Maggie Gyllenhall was a much more believeable character than Katie Holmes. Holmes was stiff and one dimensional. I could not have seen her playing the focal point of the love triangle between Dent and Wayne. I believe that she loved Bruce, but also believed that she would have married Dent. Good acting. Will definately buy the DVD and may, in fact, go see it again. The plot is smart and I'm sure there's more in there to be discovered. Edited July 31, 2008 by billay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Spoilers Ahead Interesting takes from some of you. While I watched the TV show as a kid (one of my most notable "famous customer" stories from my time in the restaurant industry was Adam West, very cool) and I saw all 4 previous 5 films (liked 1,3 & 5, not 2 & 4), I owned no comics and really had no expectations of this film before I saw it. That being said, I disagree with many on a couple of points. I enjoyed the movie very much from beginning to end (all 150 minutes of it) and disagree that it was too long. I never felt the pace lessen and I never looked at my watch. I thought there were a couple of plot holes that were glossed over (like when the Joker raids Bruce Wayne's party and throws Gyllenhall out the window. Batman saves her, but they never revisit the Joker continuing the search for Dent in Waynes penthouse. What? did he just leave quietly? ) On the whole, however, I thought these holes were forgiveable. I did think the sub-plot about the Wayne enterprises attorney who discovered the Batmobile plans was completely unnecessary. For all the accolades Heath Ledger is recieving for his Joker, I thought Eckhart was just as good, and the Two-Face character was more central to the overall theme and feel of the movie. The Joker's confession of his "Dent" plan and Gordon's observations that the plan was successful "The Joker's won" are at the heart of the film. The fall of Harvey Dent solidifies the somber and realistic tone of this film (not to mention I was impressed by how authentically his injuriy was presented) Dent is the only dynamic character in the movie, and while, if you know the character, you know what is coming for him, Eckhart is able to play the role in such a way as to make the transition emotional; and believable. Two Face made the movie for me. Ledger was truly captivating. He stole every scene and I found myself rooting for him as much as Batman in this movie. His humor was potent, yet not overdone. It was hard not to smile when he was on the screen. Sadly, his death will forever color this performance and it will be near impossible to say how his performance would have been viewed otherwise. I thought his scene in the interrogation room with Batman was great. He had some wonderful dialogue, though much of it was lost because Batman was beating the crap out of him while he delivered it. "I''m ahead of the curve" (as Batman slams him against the table) I thoroughly enjoyed his admitted affection for Batman. []i"Kill you? Why would I want to kill you?? You complete me!" [/i] Great rehash of a bad line! FWIW, my wife noticed a veiled reference to Catwoman early in the film. I did not catch it at the time. After Batman is attacked by the dog early in the film and is asking Morgan Freeman for some new armor, and whether or not it will work against dogs, Freeman says "It will work against any kind of cat." MAybe it's nothing, but it was an odd line if not a teaser, I thought Maggie Gyllenhall was a much more believeable character than Katie Holmes. Holmes was stiff and one dimensional. I could not have seen her playing the focal point of the love triangle between Dent and Wayne. I believe that she loved Bruce, but also believed that she would have married Dent. Good acting. Will definately buy the DVD and may, in fact, go see it again. The plot is smart and I'm sure there's more in there to be discovered. I thought I liked the 3rd Batman (Batman Forever) and I saw half of it recently....half, because I turned it off and I find Batman & Robin (the 4th installment of this downward spiraling series) outright unwatchable... I'm curious as to why you like those two movies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I thought I liked the 3rd Batman (Batman Forever) and I saw half of it recently....half, because I turned it off and I find Batman & Robin (the 4th installment of this downward spiraling series) outright unwatchable... I'm curious as to why you like those two movies... Nah, he says he didn't like Batman Returns (2) and Batman & Robin (4), and lists Batman (1), Batman Forever (3) and Batman Begins (5) as those he does like. While I loved Batman Returns (Love me some Tim Burton!), I agree with the rest of his list and review of Dark Knight. Eckart is being really undervalued for his performance AND the importance of the whole Dent story line to the movie. It is the entire point to Jokers actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Nah, he says he didn't like Batman Returns (2) and Batman & Robin (4), and lists Batman (1), Batman Forever (3) and Batman Begins (5) as those he does like. While I loved Batman Returns (Love me some Tim Burton!), I agree with the rest of his list and review of Dark Knight. Eckart is being really undervalued for his performance AND the importance of the whole Dent story line to the movie. It is the entire point to Jokers actions. Exactly. I like Burton Too, I just found the Penguin character really, really out there. My affection for Batman Forever most likely had to do with the presence of Jim Carrey, whom I enjoyed at the time. It's true, going bac to it, it is still very campy, and you can see in it the the devolution that is to come in Batman & Robin. Just Awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 To take this thread on another tangent, I want to explore the Joker and Ledger's performance a bit. Ledger was obviously good in the role, but I don't think it was his acting that made it so good. The character was written and designed so well, I think that any number of actors could have played the role to the same effect. Am I wrong? Is it the Joker character or Leger's portrayal thereof that is great? Interesting point, but I can't imagine another actor upping the ante on Ledger's performance - it was outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 heard depp is interested in playing the riddler ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 That would totally suck. He'd play it like his pirate character... which would be fine if that character didn't exist already. you are not giving depp enough credit...like him or hate him he is one he11 of an actor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 heard depp is interested in playing the riddler ... that would be interesting.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share Posted August 1, 2008 That would totally suck. He'd play it like his pirate character... which would be fine if that character didn't exist already. Or maybe like Hunter S. Thompson in "Fear and Loathing"? Or maybe like Sweeny Todd? Or maybe like Edward Scissorhands? Or maybe like the CIA guy in that El Mariachi sequal? Depp would not be a bad choice whatsoever....he's a versatile creep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 you are not giving depp enough credit...like him or hate him he is one he11 of an actor Wurd. He was awesome in Blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 That would totally suck. He'd play it like his pirate character... which would be fine if that character didn't exist already. I'm not sure that it would suck, but there could be a lot of overlap between portrayals of Jack Sparrow and The Riddler, because there are a lot of similarities between the two characters. you are not giving depp enough credit...like him or hate him he is one he11 of an actor Agreed. There's not a single doubt in my mind that Depp could be a Riddler comparable to Ledger's Joker. I've never seen a Johnnie Depp movie where he didn't totally become the character he was playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Ok, if he could bring a unique perspective, then cool. I'd rather see (no particular order): Simon Pegg Neil Patrick Harris Hugo Weaving James Nesbitt Eddie Izzard Dane Cook That was a joke! I'm not familiar with Nesbitt's work, but the other guys seem fairly narrow in their other characters (at least that I've seen). The only guy on that list who intrigues me is Weaving. I picture the perfect Joker to be a cross between the gritty, dark, and real qualities of Agent Smith and the plotting playfulness of Depp's Jack Sparrow. Man, I'm already geeked for the next installment! I've seen mention of the possibility of Catwoman in the next movie. I'm not a comic book geek, so I'm not familiar with how a good Catwoman could be played. What would the character be like, and who could pull it off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourge Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I think Crispin Glover would make a nice Riddler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 (edited) Johnny Depp is probably the finest actor to come out of Hollywood in the past 20 years. There, I said it. I would love to see him in a Batman movie...otherwise, it may be intolerable. I couldn't imagine this one without Heath Ledger. Edited August 1, 2008 by TimC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Just heard on the radio that Angelina Jolie may be playing Cat Woman. They were also discussing the problem with Depp playing the Riddler is that Depp is bigger thatn the character he is playing. The great thing about Bale playing Batman was that he was sort of unknown so you see Batman not Bale. Even Ledger was not a huge star so you saw the Joker not Ledger. Depp is too big right now so all you see is Depp not the Joker. Probably the same for Jolie playing Catwoman. Personally I would like to see someone like Kate Beckinsale, Kiera Knightley or Liv Tyler in the role of Catwoman. Of course you could not have Depp and Knightley in the same movie for obvious reasons. Philip Seymour Hoffman has been rumored to play a villian in the next movie be it Joker or Penquin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 heard depp is interested in playing the riddler ... That would be an excellent choice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Just heard on the radio that Angelina Jolie may be playing Cat Woman. They were also discussing the problem with Depp playing the Riddler is that Depp is bigger thatn the character he is playing. The great thing about Bale playing Batman was that he was sort of unknown so you see Batman not Bale. Even Ledger was not a huge star so you saw the Joker not Ledger. Depp is too big right now so all you see is Depp not the Joker. Probably the same for Jolie playing Catwoman. Personally I would like to see someone like Kate Beckinsale, Kiera Knightley or Liv Tyler in the role of Catwoman. Of course you could not have Depp and Knightley in the same movie for obvious reasons. Philip Seymour Hoffman has been rumored to play a villian in the next movie be it Joker or Penquin. Hoffman Joli as catwoman, no freakin way, she doesn't fit the type. Of course, I haven't seen wanted, but she seems more a WOnder WOman type than Catwoman. Catwoman needs to be more lithe, like Beckingdale or Knightley. Kate Beckingsdale...meow. Given the differences between the new Joker and Jack's Joker, I wonder if they will turn the Riddler to more of a taunting, riddling serial killer, in the vein of the Zodiac killer or whatever. Crispin Glover would indeed be perfect for that, but I never underestimate Depp's ability to do what Leger did. In fact, He would be the one I would see replacing Heath, since the Joker didn't die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Hoffman Joli as catwoman, no freakin way, she doesn't fit the type. Of course, I haven't seen wanted, but she seems more a WOnder WOman type than Catwoman. Catwoman needs to be more lithe, like Beckingdale or Knightley. Kate Beckingsdale...meow. Given the differences between the new Joker and Jack's Joker, I wonder if they will turn the Riddler to more of a taunting, riddling serial killer, in the vein of the Zodiac killer or whatever. Crispin Glover would indeed be perfect for that, but I never underestimate Depp's ability to do what Leger did. In fact, He would be the one I would see replacing Heath, since the Joker didn't die. Kate Beckingsale is the ideal Catwoman... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I think Crispin Glover would make a nice Riddler. when i mentioned the riddler to my wife, that was the first guy she thought of. dude's a weirdo. Just heard on the radio that Angelina Jolie may be playing Cat Woman. They were also discussing the problem with Depp playing the Riddler is that Depp is bigger thatn the character he is playing. The great thing about Bale playing Batman was that he was sort of unknown so you see Batman not Bale. Even Ledger was not a huge star so you saw the Joker not Ledger. Depp is too big right now so all you see is Depp not the Joker. Probably the same for Jolie playing Catwoman. Personally I would like to see someone like Kate Beckinsale, Kiera Knightley or Liv Tyler in the role of Catwoman. Of course you could not have Depp and Knightley in the same movie for obvious reasons. Philip Seymour Hoffman has been rumored to play a villian in the next movie be it Joker or Penquin. i think it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but chris nolan (if he does direct the third) has said he has no interest in the penguin because it's too far-fetched for the "realistic" gotham he's created. since he usually has two villains, i'd like him to find someone who hasn't been done (assuming the other villain is the riddler). and what about halle berry as catwoman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 who is gonna play shame and king tut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Kate Beckingsale is the ideal Catwoman... +1 She is the ideal woman ....period!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Crispin Glover still has to be able to act.... people said he'd make a great Joker....yeah, looks-wise...but he just can't act... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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