canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 OK here's the deal. I had the overall #1 pick in a 12 man redraft league basic scroing (QB does get 6 pts for a TD pass) serpentine style draft. The guy with the 5th pick wanted the #1 pick to get Manning. So, I traded him the 1st pick and he gave me his 2nd and 3rd round picks for my 4th and 5th round picks. That gives me 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. Now some of the guys in the league are saying it's an unfair trade and want to vote it down. Im the commish and I am going to let the trade go on. It's draft picks not players. I think each guy should be able to will and deal draft picks as he sees fit. I did offer the 1st pick up for a trade and no one else wanted to do it. What's your take on this trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Unless there's reason to believe it was collusion, which would pretty much be impossible in a re-draft before the season has started, there's NO REASON to not allow this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 No collusion at all. We worked on this trade for 3 days before we agreeded on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I don't see what the problem is. I am in a league where owners are trying to limit trades because of 'league balance'. It's ridiculous. Do a better job or find another game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Seems like a good trade to me, I hate it when people that never try to trade whine about everyone else's trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 I even offered the #1 pick to all the guys in the league. This guy was the only one that wanted to will and deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 You gave 1.01, 4.12, 5.01 and got 1.05, 2.08, 3.05 So now you have 1.05, 2.08, 2.12, 3.01, 3.05 and he has 1.01, 4.08, 4.12, 5.01, 5.05 I think the other guy is an idiot for making this trade, but unless there is collusion it's hard to justify nixing the trade. However, the other factor here is that you are the commissioner and you have to always appear to be above board. If the commissioner in a league is perceived to be cheating the whole league is in trouble even if the commissioner isn't cheating. It might be in the best interest of the league if you made the trade a bit more equitable as you are clearly raping the other owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Grit here is what I gave up, I move from the 1st spot to the 5th spot for the entire draft. I get 1st round 5th pick 2nd round 20th and 24th pick. 3rd round I get the 25th and 29th pick. I dont pick again until the 68th pick. The other guy gets 1st overall pick (Manning) he then gets the 44th, 48th, 49th, 53rd picks. There was no collusion at all. This guy had Manning last year and wants him again and is willing to give up so much to get him. We are Indy homers but, this guy was 5 points from the super bowl last year and is a soild fantasy player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenokee Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 So let me get this straight......he's trading 1.05 for the 1.01 pick and then sits until 4.12 and 5.01!?! Hmmmmm.........having poor judgement on the value of trades is not a crime, nor should it be vetoed. On draft day, he'll be smiling like a teen who just got laid for the first time when he announces Manning. Then, that smile will start to fade about....oooooooo - when the 2.12, 3.1 turn is made. He'll start sweating at the end of the third as picks 35 and 36 are marked off his cheat sheet. Come 4.8, he'll be praying to the gods to let someone fall to him. He won't be a happy camper with his team and I'll bet he never makes a stupid trade like this again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 He has the 8th pick in the 4th round and the 12th in the 4th round. Turns around and has the 1st and 5th pick in the 5th round. So, he has 4 picks pretty close together in the 4th and 5th round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Talker Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 You gave 1.01, 4.12, 5.01 and got 1.05, 2.08, 3.05 So now you have 1.05, 2.08, 2.12, 3.01, 3.05 and he has 1.01, 4.08, 4.12, 5.01, 5.05 I think the other guy is an idiot for making this trade, but unless there is collusion it's hard to justify nixing the trade. However, the other factor here is that you are the commissioner and you have to always appear to be above board. If the commissioner in a league is perceived to be cheating the whole league is in trouble even if the commissioner isn't cheating. It might be in the best interest of the league if you made the trade a bit more equitable as you are clearly raping the other owner. 915957[/snapback] Ditto. I can understand why the other owners are mad about this, even though it's not collusion. If you resist doing anything, I expect those owners will lose confidence and trust in you as commish, and it wouldn't surprise me if your league went up in flames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 I feel a draft pick trade (never happend before in this league until now) should be up to the owner to will and deal. The purpose of a trade is to give up something and try to improve your side. Thats what I did with this trade. I gave up Manning who has the ability to take a fantasy team to the playoffs by himself for 2 early round draft picks. The guy at the 2nd pick started bugging me right after the draft lotto if I was going to take Manning. He wants him worse then the guy giving up the 2nd and 3rd round picks. I think its a fair trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Talker Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 P.S. I don't think the trade should be vetoed. I'm just saying that it's not worth doing if it causes the other owners to lose confidence in you as commish. Which I would bet money it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 I agree Big. So far only 2 guys have said anything about it. Of course one of them is the guy picking 2nd (who wants Manning more then he wants sex) and a guy that never trades and never makes the playoffs. They are just making a big stink to the other guys in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFFL Chump Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 You're libel to lose your entire league over this one move. Choose wises what you do, the commish is held above all and if confidence fades, the league will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Talker Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I know it isn't an infallible guide, but I have a tool from another site that estimates the value of draft pick trades. In this case, you got 3544 value points in exchange for giving up 3091. It won't help your cause to continue insisting it's a fair deal. You got the upper hand, anyone can see that. Better (if you're going to let the trade stand) to say something like, "The other owner is an Indy homer and made a stupid trade." At least it won't look like you're stonewalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 I agree RFFL. Thats the sad part about it. As long as it's fair I never turn down other peoples trades. Of course I contruct the best deal I have ever done and they cry about it. It's not like I didnt offer the 1st overall pick to everyone else. No one bit but this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Good advice BIG. Can you tell me about this tool you used to calculate the draft picks? I could use that for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Grit here is what I gave up, I move from the 1st spot to the 5th spot for the entire draft. I get 1st round 5th pick 2nd round 20th and 24th pick. 3rd round I get the 25th and 29th pick. I dont pick again until the 68th pick. The other guy gets 1st overall pick (Manning) he then gets the 44th, 48th, 49th, 53rd picks. There was no collusion at all. This guy had Manning last year and wants him again and is willing to give up so much to get him. We are Indy homers but, this guy was 5 points from the super bowl last year and is a soild fantasy player. 915962[/snapback] Okay so you trade draft spots AND draft picks ... so it breaks down like this after trading draft spots: You went from 1.01 to 1.05 2.12 to 2.08 3.01 to 2.12 4.12 to 3.01 5.01 to 3.05 6.12 to 6.08 7.01 to 7.05 8.12 to 8.08 9.01 to 9.05 10.12 to 10.08 11.01 to 11.05 12.12 to 12.08 13.01 to 13.05 14.12 to 14.08 15.01 to 15.05 16.12 to 16.08 He went from 1.05 to 1.01 2.08 to 4.08 3.05 to 4.12 4.08 to 5.01 5.05 to 5.05 6.08 to 6.12 7.05 to 7.01 8.08 to 8.12 9.05 to 9.01 10.08 to 10.12 11.05 to 11.01 12.08 to 12.12 13.05 to 13.01 14.08 to 14.12 15.05 to 15.01 16.08 to 16.12 I never said there was collusion ... just that he is an idiot ... even after swapping draft spots first. There is no grounds for vetoing the trade ... but like I said the commissioner is held to a higher standard and I'm not sure your league survives a trade like this even if it is on the up-and-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I agree RFFL. Thats the sad part about it. As long as it's fair I never turn down other peoples trades. Of course I contruct the best deal I have ever done and they cry about it. It's not like I didnt offer the 1st overall pick to everyone else. No one bit but this guy. 915997[/snapback] If you have EVER vetoed another trade then you are on even thinner ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhoops Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Okay so you trade draft spots AND draft picks ... so it breaks down like this after trading draft spots: You went from 1.01 to 1.05 2.12 to 2.08 3.01 to 2.12 4.12 to 3.01 5.01 to 3.05 6.12 to 6.08 7.01 to 7.05 8.12 to 8.08 9.01 to 9.05 10.12 to 10.08 11.01 to 11.05 12.12 to 12.08 13.01 to 13.05 14.12 to 14.08 15.01 to 15.05 16.12 to 16.08 He went from 1.05 to 1.01 2.08 to 4.08 3.05 to 4.12 4.08 to 5.01 5.05 to 5.05 6.08 to 6.12 7.05 to 7.01 8.08 to 8.12 9.05 to 9.01 10.08 to 10.12 11.05 to 11.01 12.08 to 12.12 13.05 to 13.01 14.08 to 14.12 15.05 to 15.01 16.08 to 16.12 I never said there was collusion ... just that he is an idiot ... even after swapping draft spots first. There is no grounds for vetoing the trade ... but like I said the commissioner is held to a higher standard and I'm not sure your league survives a trade like this even if it is on the up-and-up 916015[/snapback] Yeah if he agrees then he is an idiot, 2nd and 3rd rounders are VERY important, especially in a 12 man league. If you maybe only do the 1st then your his 3rd for your 5th (both keeping 2nds) it might seem a bit more fair. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynch Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I would reccomend that you talk to the owners in your league. All of them and that includes the owners that are upset. Lay it out for them, tell them how you got to that trade agreement. Let them know that he agreed to the trade just to get Manning. You have to be proactive and let the people in your league know that just because you took another owner in a trade you weren't cheating it was just good negotiating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Here is my reply to the owners about this trade. Sorry it;s so long. A trade by definition is something people do to try and improve their current position. They give up something for something in return in hopes they do improve but, this does not guarantee anything. If a team wants a certain player and they are willing to sacrifice to get that certain player who they think is the best, then that team should be allowed to do so. This trade improves my current position from the 1st overall pick. Chris, who had Manning last year and I would assume wants him again this year is willing to sacrifice to get him. Yesterday, Brad and I had a conversation on the phone about this trade. We did agree that if Chris does do well with this deal then it’s the greatest fantasy football move in history. On the flip side he could fail miserably. Either way it’s a gamble on both our parts. There are too many “what ifs” here to talk about. This is also the first time we have had a trade that involves draft picks and positions. As I told Brad on the phone, Chris and I worked this deal over for several days until we came to an agreement. I also offered my 1st pick to the rest of the league and had no takers. Chris came to me wanting to get the 1st overall pick. This is new ground for us in fantasy football so; please keep in mind “new ground”. Chris, ( I’m only assuming he wants Manning) said he has a master plan that he would not tell me about and was willing to give up the 2nd and 3rd round pick to carry out this plan. I went to football guys and used their draft value calculator and got these numbers www.footballguys.com/pickvalue.htm . I got 3544 value points in exchange for giving up 3091. Yes, I get 5 picks in the first three rounds. I have improved my position and I wouldn’t expect anything different from any other fantasy player. I would expect them to do the same thing I’m doing. Most guys are not willing to give up things to try and improve, or they are scared to trade, or they just cry and moan when someone comes up with a trade they don’t have the balls to try and pull off. Either way, I like to trade. I offered an opportunity to everyone for the 1st overall pick right from the start. Chris is willing to sacrifice to get what he wants. Call him stupid, dumb, the biggest fantasy mistake in history but, don’t say it’s unfair or illegal without providing some basis for this claim. I agree Chris is giving up a lot but the return in the end could be a super bowl victory we don’t know. It’s like the stock market or poker, it’s all just a gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynch Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 The other owners might not like this message. But, you laid it out there for them. If they are real fantasy players they should understand that in the end it was up to the two of you to decide to make that trade. It doesn't look like collusion, just a bad trade. Hopefully the other owner involved in the trade steps up and says that he wanted this trade and also worked to get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 I had to lay it out that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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