darin3 Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Heard this was being discussed, but now it's official. Detroit gives up on their #2 of a few years ago, Donnie Darko Milicic and Carlos Arroyo for Kelvin Cato and a 1st rounder in 2007 or 2008 from Orlando. I'm 'cuz this tells me the Peestons just said "oops" with their Darko pick, but :doah: 'cuz this gives them a solid post presence alongside the Wallaces to deal with Shaq come playoff time. Cato's a nice player. He won't score 20 a game, but he'll get you 8 boards and a couple of blocks and will play solid interior D. What's lost in this deal, though, I think... is Carlos Arroyo. He was a SOLID leader of the Pistons' second unit. Heck, I think the kid averaged like 15 assists per 48 minutes' worth of floor time. Mark my words, they are going to miss him, ESPECIALLY if Billups goes down or gets in foul trouble in a big game. Decent trade for the Magic. If Milicic somehow comes around, he could be a nice face-the-basket option to go along with Dwight Howard, Deshaun Stevenson and Jameer Nelson. What say you, Peeston fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 You know what I find somewhat thought provoking. If the Pistons had drafted Carmelo Anthony (and he was the ONLY other option at the time. Sure Dwayne Wade has become a megastar, but at draft time it was going to be Darko or Melo), I wonder if the Pistons would be as good a team as they are today. Undoubtedly, Milicic has been a monumental flop. But, if Melo is on the team, does Tayshaun develop into the player he has become. Not a superstar but a very nice fit on a really unselfish team. Until this year, Melo was looked at as a problem child with a chit load of potential. Would the Pistons have won the title two years ago with him instead of Prince (don't forget the amazing block Tayshaun had against Reggie to win game 6 of the championship series two years ago)? Or would they have tried to feed Melo's ego and help him realize his amazing talent at the expense of becoming a great team. No way to really know, but I wonder what would have happened. In that regard, maybe Darko was the most 'important' flop in NBA history. Oh and Arroyo has never fit in here. Way more form than substance. Good riddance to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 . In that regard, maybe Darko was the most 'important' flop in NBA history. Oh and Arroyo has never fit in here. Way more form than substance. Good riddance to him. 1326678[/snapback] I agree on Arroyo, he may be the worst defender in the league. I am glad to see Hunter is healthy. I am not going to say Darko can't help a team because I think he will eventually be a starter. he never got a chance to prove himself with us having so many good big men around, and he is still very young. Imagine being a 20 year old kid and having to practice with Big Ben and Sheed and McDyess, they would ruin your confidence. I am happy with the trade though, we were not going to be able to keep him around anyways, no need to in the immediate future. so getting a pick and dumping Arroyo at the same time is bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I agree with everyone about the Arroyo analysis, just didn't fit in, too out of control at times and not much of a defender at all. I believe Joe D. has one more move in mind, a back up 1 / 2 guard with Lindsey logging about 8-10 minutes a game also. Darko was a clown, never had the drive to get better, thought he should be given the starter slot and would then show his talent. What a waste. He'll end up being a Pervis Ellison type, 13 pts a game, 8 boards and probably two blocks a game. And that's if his health holds up. Cato: Solid backup for one year and then we dump his salary and resign Ben and Chauncey. What do you guys think of Ben lately, seems to have slipped a tiny bit from the past few years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegFuJohnson Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 That was the perfect pick for the Pistons. As was said, Wade and Bosh weren't options. Brown doesn't like rookies, he didn't even play LeBron in Athens, he wouldn't have played Carmelo in Detroit. The won the title, then back to the finals, now one of the best teams again, and now they get a different first round pick later on instead. It was a perfect choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 That was the perfect pick for the Pistons. As was said, Wade and Bosh weren't options. Brown doesn't like rookies, he didn't even play LeBron in Athens, he wouldn't have played Carmelo in Detroit. The won the title, then back to the finals, now one of the best teams again, and now they get a different first round pick later on instead. It was a perfect choice. 1327055[/snapback] Brown is an interesting coach, weird now that he's playing Fry and Robinson so much in NY now. Maybe he learned something in Detroit? Nah. But hell he still won a championship. But how much is that attributable to him? Guess we'll find out more later this year. Personally I thought Wade was an option. Darin you remember the NCAA Tourney from a few years back, Wade was awesome as he was in the regular season. A man among boys. Carmello won it all though and I'll agree that he was probably the logical choice at 2. Would some of you agree that some GM's may have selected Wade at 2, seeing his future talent as greater then Mello? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egret Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 This move is looking ahead to signing Chauncey and Big Ben. Darko isn't moving ahead of Ben or 'sheed. They can't continue to pay him to ride the pine. The Pistons will be able to get a good player in this draft who won't need to provide immediate results. I think Darko was a luxury pick. Dumars saw the ability to draft a 7 footer with range who was only 17. I don't think 'melo would've fit in with the team during the championship season. I agree with Puddy that having 'melo on the team would've impacted Prince's development. Prince is from Compton. Maybe he did some Compton style negotiating with Dumars to keep 'melo off the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I agree on Arroyo, he may be the worst defender in the league. I am glad to see Hunter is healthy. I am not going to say Darko can't help a team because I think he will eventually be a starter. he never got a chance to prove himself with us having so many good big men around, and he is still very young. Imagine being a 20 year old kid and having to practice with Big Ben and Sheed and McDyess, they would ruin your confidence. I am happy with the trade though, we were not going to be able to keep him around anyways, no need to in the immediate future. so getting a pick and dumping Arroyo at the same time is bonus. 1326731[/snapback] See I differ with you a bit about the practicing part with Ben, Sheed, and Dyess. I thought it would make him better and tougher. Of course he could partially lose some confidence but I thought the upside would be greater then the downside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) We totally got screwed, but alas, I'm not very upset. Joe felt he needed to save the money and paying Ben and the rest is more important than having the human victory cigar around. Apparently Darko's first practice in Detroit he was manhandled by Ben and pulled himself to nurse his shoulder. He's toughened up some but he's still soft and his attitude/work ethic has been poor. Darko needs a change of scenery, maybe measuring kids "you must be this tall" to get on certain rides in Orlando would be better for him. Seriously, the kid was a round peg on a square peg team. When given the chance for extened playing time: in preseason, in the offseason, in those throwaway games at the end of last year, he looked good. He wasn't happy at all. Cato -maybe- provides help this year in the playoffs then he's likely gone. I hope he never hits the floor because a) he sucks and B ) that means that somebody got hurt. In case of emergency, I'd as soon have Darko. The best thing about him is that his salary vanishes at the end of the year and it free up some cash to pay Ben and Chauncey in a year or two. Darko was already not really contributing and his loss won't be noticed on the court any more than Cato's presence will be. Now Aroyo is more valuable, we can still use his as a #3 PG. He can play offensively well, but he's not really a two way player like Hunter is and I'm far more comfortable with Hunter as a backup. Still, this leaves the Pistons uncomfortably thin at point guard. we move Alex Aker to #3 and he's as much a project as Darko was, but less hyped since he comes from the bottom of the draft, not the top. Darko is going to get his shot and I'd wish him the best, but really what I want is for Orlando to stink it up the next few years so Detroit gets a high pick in '08. I mean they're bottom five or six now with Grant Hill and Steve Francis burning up all of Richard DeVos's scAmway money and Orlando's salary room. Sadly, Hill's contract was a year too short, they'l have a year to recover before the Pistons get their guranteed pick in '08. Piston's may get the pick in '07 if Orlando avoids the draft lottery- not likely their team's suckage runs deep. I'm officially on the Suck Orlando Suck! bandwagon through 2007-8. Edited February 18, 2006 by Voltaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Or would they have tried to feed Melo's ego and help him realize his amazing talent at the expense of becoming a great team. 1326678[/snapback] Lets not lose this ponderance -- I think Puddy has nailed it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Milicic is soft - a total floater. That's what really irked me about him - when he did get into the game, there was little effort. Arroyo was okay. But his offensive skills really aren't all that great, and he is definitely a defensive liability. That doesn't cut it on the Pistons. I was impressed with Cato in college when I saw him at the Palace during the NCAA tournment. I haven't really followed him in the NBA. Seems that he is a journeyman type. The pick will define this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 You know what I find somewhat thought provoking. If the Pistons had drafted Carmelo Anthony (and he was the ONLY other option at the time. Sure Dwayne Wade has become a megastar, but at draft time it was going to be Darko or Melo), I wonder if the Pistons would be as good a team as they are today. Undoubtedly, Milicic has been a monumental flop. But, if Melo is on the team, does Tayshaun develop into the player he has become. Not a superstar but a very nice fit on a really unselfish team. Until this year, Melo was looked at as a problem child with a chit load of potential. Would the Pistons have won the title two years ago with him instead of Prince (don't forget the amazing block Tayshaun had against Reggie to win game 6 of the championship series two years ago)? Or would they have tried to feed Melo's ego and help him realize his amazing talent at the expense of becoming a great team. No way to really know, but I wonder what would have happened. In that regard, maybe Darko was the most 'important' flop in NBA history. Oh and Arroyo has never fit in here. Way more form than substance. Good riddance to him. 1326678[/snapback] Whenever I watched the Pistons play, it seemed to me Arroyo was in their during garbage time. Anyway, a piece was written on either ESPN or CNNSI about Darko's trade...that Darko wasn't utilized because Brown hates rookies, etc. So maybe Darko will do much better when given the chance to play nightly in Orlando. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 I think you guys are vastly underestimating Arroyo and overrating Lindsey Hunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 "This trade is like a 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' for Darko," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "It's a fresh start. It'll be up to him. Darko's definitely got some talent. The thing he didn't show was the passion for the game, the want to dominate the game." Offered Pistons point guard Chauncey Billups, "I've been telling him, 'When they page you, you better answer.' . . . He has the skills, but sometimes he looked a little frustrated, a little disinterested, and that might have had to do more with Larry . . . his frustration. I chalk it up to that." Pistons forward Rasheed Wallace says Milicic might have the last laugh yet. "Everyone thinks he's a bust and makes jokes about him . . .," he said. "But the joke is going to be on them." Got this from the Sentinal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I think you guys are vastly underestimating Arroyo and overrating Lindsey Hunter. 1335469[/snapback] Really? Arroyo is a good passer. What else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 Really? Arroyo is a good passer. What else? 1337130[/snapback] Good passers are underrated as leaders of a good team's "second unit". Lindsey Hunter is not a true point guard. You Peeston fans better hope Billups stays hot and and healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Good passers are underrated as leaders of a good team's "second unit". Lindsey Hunter is not a true point guard. You Peeston fans better hope Billups stays hot and and healthy. 1337543[/snapback] Bottom line is Arroyo is overrated. He'll get good stats on a bad team but on a disiplined team he did not fit. Could / would we win a championship with Arroyo, yeah probably, but he was part of the deal. Look for one more move and if not, Tey and Lindsey will have to eat up about 8 minutes a game at the Point in the playoffs, if that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Furd says the pick will define the trade, I agree with that. The Pistons get cap relief and give up a 3rd string PG for a 5th string big. Darko for the pick. This is a great deal for Orlando IMO. Nominally OK for Detroit. Since we don't need Cato, I'm not sure that I like moving Arroyo who is more useful IMO. I have to that guess Joe was worried about freeing up cash this offseason and next to keep Ben and Chauncey in the fold. Now we maybe have to move Cato to get a point guard. Or maybe not- maybe they actually want him to be a fifth big man. I dunno. I dont see any use for him but if he stays positive and has an attitude similar to other been-around-the-block-vets like Dale Davis and Elden Campbell, that's cool. Darko shows no motivation... just a bad fit. I think he'll do well eventually but he's just stagnating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 Last 3 games for Carlos Arroyo: 27 minutes in each game; 13, 18 and 17 points; 4, 4 and 5 boards; 4, 4 and 3 dimes; shooting better than 60% from field and ~75% from line. Not saying the guy's setting the world on fire, and Orlando Coach Brian Hill's already said that he's not going to crack the starting lineup, but here's a solid 2nd string PG that I still contend the Peestons are going to miss. Oh, and since Arroyo left, Hunter is averaging 1.8 ppg, 1.1 rpg and 1.1 apg. Yeah, OK defensive stopping doesn't show up in box scores... but for y'all to say that you're fine with the 35-year old Hunter as your leader of your 2nd unit is a little delusional. Again, better hope Billups stays healthy and out of foul trouble in big games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 He'll get good stats on a bad team but on a disiplined team he did not fit. 1337560[/snapback] Darin, as stated above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Last 3 games for Carlos Arroyo: 27 minutes in each game; 13, 18 and 17 points; 4, 4 and 5 boards; 4, 4 and 3 dimes; shooting better than 60% from field and ~75% from line. Not saying the guy's setting the world on fire, and Orlando Coach Brian Hill's already said that he's not going to crack the starting lineup, but here's a solid 2nd string PG that I still contend the Peestons are going to miss. Oh, and since Arroyo left, Hunter is averaging 1.8 ppg, 1.1 rpg and 1.1 apg. Yeah, OK defensive stopping doesn't show up in box scores... but for y'all to say that you're fine with the 35-year old Hunter as your leader of your 2nd unit is a little delusional. Again, better hope Billups stays healthy and out of foul trouble in big games. 1345337[/snapback] I personally am very glad to have Hunter back. his on the ball pressure is what we needed from a backup PG. I would love to know what the Pistons +/- was while Arroyo was on the floor. I guarentee it was not good This all being said it is sorta looking like we paid Orlando back a little for giving us Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins. I think they really got over on this deal with the Pistons.that is funny considering I could be wrong but I believe my Pistons got Milicic with a pick we got from Orlando in the Grant Hill trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarge5121976 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Fire Joe D and hire Darin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I could be wrong but I believe my Pistons got Milicic with a pick we got from Orlando in the Grant Hill trade. 1345982[/snapback] Nah - we got him as payback for giving the then Vancouver Grizzlies Otis Thorpe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Sounds like we are going to sign Tony Delk for some depth at the position. Even if Arroyo does get decent stats, he flat out didn't fit into our system. Square peg, round hole syndrom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 Sounds like we are going to sign Tony Delk for some depth at the position.Even if Arroyo does get decent stats, he flat out didn't fit into our system. Square peg, round hole syndrom. 1346872[/snapback] maybe i just don't understand this "system" you keep referring to... but every time i saw arroyo on the floor, he performed admirably... all i remember about hunter is him sucking with the lakers... guess the tell-tale sign will be when/if billups gets injured or is in foul trouble in a big game... hunter HAS been a good on-the-ball defender in the past, we'll see if he still has it in him when it comes to the playoffs... detroit's certainly got the tools to make another run at it... miami's there, but the peestons should dispose of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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