BigTen Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Lions "D" allowed 5,158 total yards last year.....308 First Downs....2040 rushing yards at a 4.2 yards a rush....39 TD's....got only 31 sacks.... I didn't say the Lions sucked....although they almost do on defense...I said they are below average and until you can get a decent "D" and a "DECENT" not Pro Bowl....but "DECENT" "O" line.....people will continue to be tolerant of Joey was my point.....as for me...Lions suck and Joey willl "NEVER" be my Fantasy QB back up or otherwise!!!!!!!!!!!! 1394596[/snapback] Do you actually watch the Lions? It was their offense that cost us game most of the time. Look at points scored. Defense time and time again made stops but the "O" could not do dick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 JOEY HARRINGTONYear Team G Cmp Att Pct Yds Yds/Att TD Int 2002 DET 14 215 429 50.1 2294 5.3 12 16 2003 DET 16 309 554 55.8 2880 5.2 17 22 2004 DET 16 274 489 56.0 3047 6.2 19 12 2005 DET 12 188 330 57.0 2021 6.1 12 12 Cade McNown Year Team G Att Comp Yards Lg TD Int 1999 Bears 15 235 127 1465 80 8 10 2000 Bears 10 280 154 1646 68 8 9 Akili Smith Year Team G Att Comp Yards Lg TD Int 1999 Bengals 7 153 80 805 39 2 2000 Bengals 12 267 118 1253 46 3 2001 Bengals 2 8 5 37 14 0 2002 Bengals 1 33 12 117 24 0 Rick Mirer Year His Team G Att Comp Yds Lg TD Int 1993 Seattle 16 486 274 2833 53 12 17 1994 Seattle 13 381 195 2151 51 11 7 1995 Seattle 15 391 209 2564 59 13 20 1996 Seattle 11 265 136 1546 60 5 12 This might be difficult to read since everything didn't seam to line up correctly but the basic idea is that Harrington produced better stats than ALL of the other QB's you compared him too. The only player even remotely close is Rick Mirer who still didn't produce the numbers Harrington did. I think these stats speak for themselves... 1394076[/snapback] I see, so comparing crap to crap fungus makes it seem like crap is better? So Joey is the best of the crap, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Does Tim Couch fit into this discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizards Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Do you actually watch the Lions? It was their offense that cost us game most of the time. Look at points scored. Defense time and time again made stops but the "O" could not do dick! 1394615[/snapback] MY POINT is fans are tolerant of Joey because the Lions "D" is a spectacular blend of raw finesse and talent that is only matched by a few elite NFL "D"'s..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Do you actually watch the Lions? It was their offense that cost us game most of the time. Look at points scored. Defense time and time again made stops but the "O" could not do dick! 1394615[/snapback] Dude, our defense sucked last year. Although it WAS better than our O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I see, so comparing crap to crap fungus makes it seem like crap is better? So Joey is the best of the crap, right? 1394618[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 (edited) Dude, our defense sucked last year. Although it WAS better than our O. 1394625[/snapback] I know Doc, but saying that Joey played poorly because of that is wrong. Joey never took chances and always paniced and dumped the ball off for 2-3 yards (yes some of it was thge bad play calling). How many times last year did our defense make a stop and then our offense go three and out? That was our offensive motto last year. I would think it is fair to say that the defense played poorly because they wer on the field so darn much. Make an INT and then the O goes three and out, fumble recovery three and out.... Edited March 30, 2006 by BigTen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I was going to defend Harrington by comparing him to the actual stats of Michael Vick, as once you wipe away the crappy shoes from spammers hype, Vick is remarkably mediocre and the facts surprise people. However, amazingly, Vick is actually a higher rated passer than Joey!!! Granted, a career rating of 75 (Vick) is nothing special (Roethlisberger's is 98), but it is better than Harrington (68). Plus, Joey's turnovers are worse than Vick's (that's tough to do) and the Lions haven't won as much as the Falcons have -- even though the Falcons are only one game over .500 during the Vick era. Soooo -- I'll cut Vick some slack today and leave Joey hanging out to dry ... 1394093[/snapback] You could compare their rushing yards too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryTheRock Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I still think Joey will end up having the last laugh when it's all said and done. I think he can and will be a very good QB in the NFL. 1394010[/snapback] This sounds like a few Charger fans when Ryan Leaf left town. I couldn't resist that but it really isn't fair to compare them as Leaf was a total bonehead. You have to give Harrington credit for not crying too hard in public. You'll see debate all the time about David Carr as well. Does he get more slack because they were an expansion team? They should be about over that. David Carr PASSING Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Rate 2002 Houston Texans 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 62.8 2003 Houston Texans 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 69.5 2004 Houston Texans 16 16 466 285 61.2 3531 7.58 69 16 14 83.5 2005 Houston Texans 16 16 423 256 60.5 2488 5.88 53 14 11 77.2 TOTAL 60 59 1628 941 57.8 10624 6.53 81 48 53 73. Joey Harrington PASSING Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Rate 2002 Detroit Lions 14 12 429 215 50.1 2294 5.35 64 12 16 59.9 2003 Detroit Lions 16 16 554 309 55.8 2880 5.20 72 17 22 63.9 2004 Detroit Lions 16 16 489 274 56.0 3047 6.23 62 19 12 77.5 2005 Detroit Lions 12 11 330 188 57.0 2021 6.12 86 12 12 72.0 TOTAL 58 55 1802 986 54.7 10242 5.68 86 60 62 68.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I know Doc, but saying that Joey played poorly because of that is wrong. Joey never took chances and always paniced and dumped the ball off for 2-3 yards (yes some of it was thge bad play calling). How many times last year did our defense make a stop and then our offense go three and out? That was our offensive motto last year. I would think it is fair to say that the defense played poorly because they wer on the field so darn much. Make an INT and then the O goes three and out, fumble recovery three and out.... 1394652[/snapback] I would say both parts hurt each other. The offense could not get consistant drives going and it definately hur the defense. if you cannot run the ball you can not control the clock which means your defense is on the field more thus more tired, as you basically said. On defense we would have looked even worse had teams been forced to pass more against us instead of being in run out the clock mode against us because we are always losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I would say both parts hurt each other. The offense could not get consistant drives going and it definately hur the defense. if you cannot run the ball you can not control the clock which means your defense is on the field more thus more tired, as you basically said. On defense we would have looked even worse had teams been forced to pass more against us instead of being in run out the clock mode against us because we are always losing. 1394669[/snapback] Fair statement. Also, do not get me wrong, the offensive woes are not all to blame on Joey. He is not the reason the Lions sucked (man if I had the time) but he was a big part of it IMHO. Either way, he is gone and we both will get a new start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 This sounds like a few Charger fans when Ryan Leaf left town. I couldn't resist that but it really isn't fair to compare them as Leaf was a total bonehead. You have to give Harrington credit for not crying too hard in public. You'll see debate all the time about David Carr as well. Does he get more slack because they were an expansion team? They should be about over that. David Carr PASSING Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Rate 2002 Houston Texans 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 62.8 2003 Houston Texans 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 69.5 2004 Houston Texans 16 16 466 285 61.2 3531 7.58 69 16 14 83.5 2005 Houston Texans 16 16 423 256 60.5 2488 5.88 53 14 11 77.2 TOTAL 60 59 1628 941 57.8 10624 6.53 81 48 53 73. Joey Harrington PASSING Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Rate 2002 Detroit Lions 14 12 429 215 50.1 2294 5.35 64 12 16 59.9 2003 Detroit Lions 16 16 554 309 55.8 2880 5.20 72 17 22 63.9 2004 Detroit Lions 16 16 489 274 56.0 3047 6.23 62 19 12 77.5 2005 Detroit Lions 12 11 330 188 57.0 2021 6.12 86 12 12 72.0 TOTAL 58 55 1802 986 54.7 10242 5.68 86 60 62 68.1 1394668[/snapback] Harrington was in a much better situation that Carr has been in. IMO Carrs stats are awesome considering the line he has played behind, and the fact they he was thrown right out into it and never lost his confidence says alot about Carr to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Fair statement. Also, do not get me wrong, the offensive woes are not all to blame on Joey. He is not the reason the Lions sucked (man if I had the time) but he was a big part of it IMHO. Either way, he is gone and we both will get a new start. 1394672[/snapback] Could not agree with you more my brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Harrington was in a much better situation that Carr has been in. IMO Carrs stats are awesome considering the line he has played behind, and the fact they he was thrown right out into it and never lost his confidence says alot about Carr to me. 1394673[/snapback] Not to mention he was the most sacked QB the past 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryTheRock Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Harrington was in a much better situation that Carr has been in. IMO Carrs stats are awesome considering the line he has played behind, and the fact they he was thrown right out into it and never lost his confidence says alot about Carr to me. 1394673[/snapback] I like Carr and I think this "could be the year." I think the coaching change will be good for him. Not only was Harrington put into a better situation, they tried to help him more with weapons each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I liked Brian Griese way more than Jake, but sadly Plummer actually "statistically" shows more promise. :doah: 1394495[/snapback] Your crazy. Griese was a total system guy in Denver. He called the play and if it broke down at all, then he was done. The Denver QB needs to be something of an athlete as well to be successful. Now having said that, I think Plummer is one bad year away from getting killed by the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Row Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I don't think he was a first rounder , but I don't know of ANY giant fans that were sad to see Dave Brown hit the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 McNown was not only a horrible QB, but a complete jacka$$ of a human being. I don't know of any Bears fans who supported him. He's a small step up from Ryan Leaf. 1393980[/snapback] Bill speaks truth here. McNown could probably have succeeded in the NFL but his character was woefully lacking. Once he had pocketed the signing bonus, he was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Do you actually watch the Lions? It was their offense that cost us game most of the time. Look at points scored. Defense time and time again made stops but the "O" could not do dick! 1394615[/snapback] Just take a look back over the last 3 yrs during our 5 win seasons and see how many of the games were won by the defense scoring points. I can remember a few of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I see, so comparing crap to crap fungus makes it seem like crap is better? So Joey is the best of the crap, right? 1394618[/snapback] It's better than being the worst crappy QB. Harrington will make a great backup QB for either Dallas or the Bengals. Although, if it were not for Harrington deciding he no longer wanted to play in Detroit he could start for the Lions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Your crazy. Griese was a total system guy in Denver. He called the play and if it broke down at all, then he was done. The Denver QB needs to be something of an athlete as well to be successful. Now having said that, I think Plummer is one bad year away from getting killed by the fans. 1394726[/snapback] I gotta agree with you on this one. Plummer DOES have better stats than Griese, but definitely is not an overall better QB. I'm suprised to not hear more Denver fans complaining about Plummer more often, did you see how horrible he played against the Steelers during the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I gotta agree with you on this one. Plummer DOES have better stats than Griese, but definitely is not an overall better QB. I'm suprised to not hear more Denver fans complaining about Plummer more often, did you see how horrible he played against the Steelers during the playoffs? 1395276[/snapback] man, you guys just have no idea what you're talking about. i don't think you'll find a true-blue broncos fan in the world (someone who has watched all their games over the years and understands football) who agrees with these sentiments. plummer, mediocre as he is, is a million times better than griese. mostly because he doesn't wilt under the spotlight. skillwise, plummer is only marginally better. as far as being a leader, gaining his teammates' respect, shrugging off adversity, playing well in the 4th quarter of close games....in these areas jake blows griese out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 It's better than being the worst crappy QB. Harrington will make a great backup QB for either Dallas or the Bengals. Although, if it were not for Harrington deciding he no longer wanted to play in Detroit he could start for the Lions! 1395264[/snapback] Sad, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyalboyd Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I still say Denver gave up on Bubby Brister and Brian Griese too early. 1394469[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Sad, isn't it? 1395346[/snapback] For rooting for Harrington For actually thinking the Lions would eventually get better all four painful years I rooted for Harrington Maybe next year, right Harrington? Who am I kidding?! He'll make for a great backup to Carson Palmer or Drew Bledsoe though! ...or whichever team he goes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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