Ursa Majoris Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 :pullsupchairandgrabscollardgreens: 1399692[/snapback] :comesbackfromfridgewithchocolateicecream,pullsupchairandsettlesin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 :joinswhomperandofferssomeblackeyedpeastogowithhiscollardgreens: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 No, I'm not saying the white people made them stay. Are you seriously saying that the only two choices are #1 they liked the way the Southern Man treated them, or #2 whitey forced them to stay? Seriously? 1399690[/snapback] Well you are saying things were so bad for them, if they were that bad they would of left, simple as that. they could have, they decided they liked it where they were. I don't know what else to say to you. you are looking for some complicated answer to something that is not at all complicated. Look at the mexicans, they are sneaking over the line just for better jobs, you don't think blacks would of done the same in the south to save themselves from toothless inbred hillbillies wanting to stick a pitchfork in them. I mean, just sit back a minute and think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 :welcomesursaandcracksabeer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 :welcomesursaandcracksabeer: 1399704[/snapback] :offersfreshbowlsoficecreamtowhomperandtbimm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 (edited) It's like listening to anti-war protesters or people who were against a war and have never visited Arlington National Cemetary and walked amongst the headstones or on the fields where the battles occurred. Those moments change you. It's too easy to sit back and read some sterilized history books and draw your own conclusions...no matter how incorrect they may be. And then come on to mock those who have. 1399695[/snapback] You are so right, and I WANT to bring in a even bigger example of what you are saying but this thread and site will be tossed immediately. so I am just going to close my mouth. EDIT: Well not the site, it may be safe. Edited April 2, 2006 by Doc Holliday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Well you are saying things were so bad for them, if they were that bad they would of left, simple as that. they could have, they decided they liked it where they were. I don't know what else to say to you. you are looking for some complicated answer to something that is not at all complicated. Look at the mexicans, they are sneaking over the line just for better jobs, you don't think blacks would of done the same in the south to save themselves from toothless inbred hillbillies wanting to stick a pitchfork in them. I mean, just sit back a minute and think about it. 1399703[/snapback] You are the one who threw out the idea that things were peachy keen for Southern blacks in the 19th century. You're the one that injected that issue into the conversation. You threw out this idea, I'm challenging you on it, and you're saying it's my burden to prove you wrong. That's not how it works. You are looking for a single simple answer to explain a very complex situation. Methinks you are the one who has to sit back and do some thinking. Try to put yourself in the shoes of a former slave in, say, 1870. Think about the various things I brought up about these people and consider if there could have been reasons why these people might have stayed put in undesirable circumstances rather than venture north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 :pullsupachairandcracksasmile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 :sofullafterursasicecreamIadjustmyselftocoverplumberscrack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 You are the one who threw out the idea that things were peachy keen for Southern blacks in the 19th century. You're the one that injected that issue into the conversation. You threw out this idea, I'm challenging you on it, and you're saying it's my burden to prove you wrong. That's not how it works. You are looking for a single simple answer to explain a very complex situation. Methinks you are the one who has to sit back and do some thinking. Try to put yourself in the shoes of a former slave in, say, 1870. Think about the various things I brought up about these people and consider if there could have been reasons why these people might have stayed put in undesirable circumstances rather than venture north. 1399727[/snapback] OK, you ARE a democrat. this post proves it. When did I say things were peachy keen. people say things like this when they are searching for help. I have told you what I think and you have twisted it around, you were supposed to zig and you zagged. I seen this coming.it is my own fault. you have turned the whole debate into something else which makes it useless, not to mention pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 (edited) OK, you ARE a democrat. this post proves it. When did I say things were peachy keen. people say things like this when they are searching for help. I have told you what I think and you have twisted it around, you were supposed to zig and you zagged. I seen this coming.it is my own fault. you have turned the whole debate into something else which makes it useless, not to mention pointless. 1399737[/snapback] Why are you trying to mind heck me over the internets? Since when does f o c k translate into "heck." Edited April 2, 2006 by Squeegiebo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 It's like listening to anti-war protesters or people who were against a war and have never visited Arlington National Cemetary and walked amongst the headstones or on the fields where the battles occurred. Those moments change you. 1399695[/snapback] Sidenote - when I went to DC two years ago, I made a point to visit Arlington cemetary which is absolutely worth seeing in my opinion. But the whole time I was there I was a bit perturbed because I had just been informed that Arlington cemetary was actually Robert E. Lee's home that the federal government stole and started burying dead soldiers on just to thumb their nose at Lee. I guess Lee should have had his homestead a bit farther south. Sidenote #2 - Robert E. Lee was first asked to be the commander of the union armies by Abraham Lincoln but he could not fight his southern brethren and turned him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Why are you trying to mind heck me over the internets? 1399742[/snapback] OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 It's like listening to anti-war protesters or people who were against a war and have never visited Arlington National Cemetary and walked amongst the headstones or on the fields where the battles occurred. Those moments change you. 1399695[/snapback] So seeing how many people have died in wars makes one pro-war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 (edited) OK, you ARE a democrat. this post proves it. When did I say things were peachy keen. people say things like this when they are searching for help. I have told you what I think and you have twisted it around, you were supposed to zig and you zagged. I seen this coming.it is my own fault. you have turned the whole debate into something else which makes it useless, not to mention pointless. 1399737[/snapback] I don't see what political affiliation has to do with anything. You seem to have decided that post-war blacks had two choices: 1. Stay because they loved Whitey who loved them right back. 2. Go You argue that since so many stayed, 1. above must be true. How about other options - they stayed because they were newly free and their families were there (worth remembering that slavery had been going on for several generations and large families were the result), they stayed because of the free land thing, they stayed because it was their home, or they stayed because of a combination thereof. Edited April 2, 2006 by Ursa Majoris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Sidenote - when I went to DC two years ago, I made a point to visit Arlington cemetary which is absolutely worth seeing in my opinion. But the whole time I was there I was a bit perturbed because I had just been informed that Arlington cemetary was actually Robert E. Lee's home that the federal government stole and started burying dead soldiers on just to thumb their nose at Lee. I guess Lee should have had his homestead a bit farther south. Sidenote #2 - Robert E. Lee was first asked to be the commander of the union armies by Abraham Lincoln but he could not fight his southern brethren and turned him down. 1399747[/snapback] A friend of mine owns a old plantation house in West Franklin Tennessee. it is more of a museum. it is 1 of the few mansions that the north took over and did not burn down as they used it as a headquarters. not only does it have the civil war theme going on but there is indian mounds all around his house. he has a museum like plaq outside it saying "meeting of the waters". it is where the little Harpeth river and the big harpeth river come together (Spain may know this area). but the historical relevance of it all is awesome. they have a graveyard on it without names of soldiers who died in the war. the guy who owns it has like 500 acres around his house and has kept it as close as he could from the day he bought it. I don't like the fact that americans had to die in a war against each other, that being said I cannot help but be interested in the whole deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I don't like the fact that americans had to die in a war against each other, that being said I cannot help but be interested in the whole deal. 1399768[/snapback] Virtually all great countries have had a civil war. It's like a rite of passage or cleansing of the air, almost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I don't see what political affiliation has to do with anything. You seem to have decided that post-war blacks had two choices: 1. Stay because they loved Whitey who loved them right back. 2. Go You argue that since so many stayed, 1. above must be true. How about other options - they stayed because they were newly free and their families were there (worth remembering that slavery had been going on for several generations and large families were the result), they stayed because of the free land thing, they stayed because it was their home, or they stayed because of a combination thereof. 1399767[/snapback] Once again, you are presented a arguement for me and changing it around to make me look bad. and actually, whether you are a democrat or republican does not matter if you answer questions directly. democrats just seem to not do that. I actually only guessed at you being a Democrat, and if you are 1 you sure don't seem proud enough of it to say 1 way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Once again, you are presented a arguement for me and changing it around to make me look bad. and actually, whether you are a democrat or republican does not matter if you answer questions directly. democrats just seem to not do that. I actually only guessed at you being a Democrat, and if you are 1 you sure don't seem proud enough of it to say 1 way or the other. 1399773[/snapback] Why are you avoiding the question here? Are you saying blacks had only those two options, or are you not saying that? Either quit speculating about irrelevant crap trying to avoid the issue and answer the question, or just admit that you are wrong. Very easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Virtually all great countries have had a civil war. It's like a rite of passage or cleansing of the air, almost. 1399770[/snapback] Agreed, we are lucky that ours did not split us up.it has many other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Agreed, we are lucky that ours did not split us up.it has many other countries. 1399775[/snapback] The truly great ones manage to stay in one piece, mostly. All five permanent members on the Security Council have had a civil war or major revolutionary bloodbath and all five survived intact (though China did lose Taiwan, I suppose). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 OK, you ARE a democrat. this post proves it. When did I say things were peachy keen. people say things like this when they are searching for help. I have told you what I think and you have twisted it around, you were supposed to zig and you zagged. I seen this coming.it is my own fault. you have turned the whole debate into something else which makes it useless, not to mention pointless. 1399737[/snapback] Dude, seriously. I'm not quick to rag on a fellow Lions fan, nor am I one to agree with Squeegiebo often (she's a socialist, I'm a libertarian). However, I have to say that she's right insofar as you not making whatever point you're trying to make very clearly. Your initial post seemed tangential to the conversation, and your extremely defensive responses to questions about it seemed to come from nowhere. Also, given the wide distribution of political views in The Tailgate, summarily dismissing all opinions from Democrats with silly Limbaugh-esque slogans isn't going to help anyone take your views seriously. My guess is that because you've lived in both the North and the South that you have some unique perspective on the situation, or at least some aspect of the situation. I'd encourage you to share that perspective without the aggresiveness and name-calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Why are you avoiding the question here? Are you saying blacks had only those two options, or are you not saying that? Either quit speculating about irrelevant crap trying to avoid the issue and answer the question, or just admit that you are wrong. Very easy. 1399774[/snapback] OK, I will say it again. If things were SO bad for blacks in the south, do you think so many would have stayed in the south like they have? As I pointed out before, Mexicans cross the line for jobs, I am quite sure blacks would of done the same for health reasons if they really felt threatened(which I know some did). And of course there is many many variables of why things happened the way they did.I mean, we can break this thing down a million ways if you want to. but overall, the blacks were already at home in the south so they stayed here. My main point and the 1 you refuse to understand is that the north made a bigger deal out of stopping slavery than they really actually cared to do , they did it for a number of reasons. 1 was because slavery was immorral (this was not their main reason though, and I am not even sure it was a reason the way Lincoln actually felt), another was it helped build their military, another is they hoped to start the blacks fighting the confederates from the inside out. and I am sure there is many other reasons. My whole introduction to this post was about Lincoln. he did not care any more about blacks than the confederates. he wanted to either ship them back to africa or to put them in some spot so they did not intrude on Whities life. <----------this is why I entered this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Dude, seriously. I'm not quick to rag on a fellow Lions fan, nor am I one to agree with Squeegiebo often (she's a socialist, I'm a libertarian). However, I have to say that she's right insofar as you not making whatever point you're trying to make very clearly. Your initial post seemed tangential to the conversation, and your extremely defensive responses to questions about it seemed to come from nowhere. Also, given the wide distribution of political views in The Tailgate, summarily dismissing all opinions from Democrats with silly Limbaugh-esque slogans isn't going to help anyone take your views seriously. My guess is that because you've lived in both the North and the South that you have some unique perspective on the situation, or at least some aspect of the situation. I'd encourage you to share that perspective without the aggresiveness and name-calling. 1399784[/snapback] Well " heck" , lets hear your view of things . You come to save the day...lets here what you have to say ON the subject. I mean it is obvious what your real reason is, but I won't say it because you will say I am name calling. What's your view on this ? of all that talking you failed to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSab Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 (edited) I want Doc to come up to North Philly and try this little song and dance out with some fo the Brothers. Edited April 3, 2006 by NSab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts