Footballjoe Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Now that I got your attention. Everyday it seems that a question is posted about taking Peyton Manning in the first round, and sometimes very early first round. I would like to make a motion that we post why this is usually a HUGE mistake and everytime someones asks "should I take Peyton at 1:3 that we refer them to the post and make them answer their own question. or I guess I could just ignore the post. Anyone want to second my motion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBJPO01 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 SOunds good to me as long as it's not 6 pts for passing TD's. Petyon should not be touched b4 #10 overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 SOunds good to me as long as it's not 6 pts for passing TD's. Petyon should not be touched b4 #10 overall. Even with 6 pt passing TDs he shouldnt be touched that early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asskickas Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Even with 6 pt passing TDs he shouldnt be touched that early. Aren't most leagues 6pts per passing td and rushing td? I still say even with 7 pts per passing td he should take a backseat to the stud runners. Many rookie FF players think he is a lock to break the record and pass for 40+ tds every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Aren't most leagues 6pts per passing td and rushing td? I still say even with 7 pts per passing td he should take a backseat to the stud runners. Many rookie FF players think he is a lock to break the record and pass for 40+ tds every year. Many, if not most leagues, go to a 4 or even 3 point per pass TD scoring system. Most common reason is because they figure a top passer can throw for 30+ TDs while a top runner or receiver will often only get 12-15, so this in a sense "balances" the scoring. A complete misnomer, but that is a different discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBJPO01 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 (edited) Aren't most leagues 6pts per passing td and rushing td? I still say even with 7 pts per passing td he should take a backseat to the stud runners. Many rookie FF players think he is a lock to break the record and pass for 40+ tds every year. To my knowledge, most leagues give 4 pts for passing Td's. THus making Manning a bit higher in drafts awarding 6 for passing Td's. As I said, still should be about 9 Rb's taken before him regardless. Edited August 1, 2006 by KUBJPO01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 The voices in my head tell me to take Peyton 1.1. And they probably know more than youse guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 (edited) To my knowledge, most leagues give 4 pts for passing Td's. THus making Manning a bit higher in drafts awarding 6 for passing Td's. As I said, still should be about 9 Rb's taken before him regardless. unless you are starting 2 QBs, it doesn't really matter if the TDs are 4 or 6. the scarcity of players and relative value of QBs is still in place, still favoring RBs and top WRs. let someone else bite on manning and grab your QB in the 4th or 5th round. Edited August 1, 2006 by tonorator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghengis_chan Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 (edited) Many, if not most leagues, go to a 4 or even 3 point per pass TD scoring system. Most common reason is because they figure a top passer can throw for 30+ TDs while a top runner or receiver will often only get 12-15, so this in a sense "balances" the scoring. A complete misnomer, but that is a different discussion. Ditto...Nuff Said.... Edited August 1, 2006 by ghengis_chan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 People seem to have a tough time grasping this concept so I'll try to simplify it. Here's the argument we hear all the time: with Edge gone, Manning will have to pass a lot more and will probably repeat his performance from 2004 if not better it. And furthermore, in a league that awards 6 points per passing TD, Manning is the most valuable player you can draft!!! Even if you believe the first assertion (it may or may not be true, he could end up more like '05 -- gasp!), the fact remains that there is a much steeper drop off in fantasy points from the top 3 RBs down thru the next 10. Not true of QBs -- the drop is much more gradual. There is a wealth of quality starting QBs to be had in the middle rounds. Meaning that if you pass on a RB in the first round in favor of Manning, you will be outscored most weeks at the RB position, because most other teams drafted a top 10 RB. But Manning will make up those points, right? Not necessarily! Carson Palmer outscored him last year and is supposedly going to start week 1 and be 100%. Eli is another year older and has a wealth of weapons to throw to. Bledsoe now has T.O. CPepp is in a new offense with much better coaching and supporting cast and also seems to be healing well. Brady is a consistently solid QB. Delhomme has last year's top WR as well as a legit #2 option. Any of these guys, not to mention Bulger, Plummer, Warner, etc etc etc could outscore Manning in a given week. It happened plenty of times last year. So if you have Manning and your #1 RB is someone of the caliber of Westbrook, McGahee etc, you really don't have an advantage over a guy with Palmer, Eli, Brady, etc and a legit #1 RB. All other positions being equal of course (but let's not overlook the fact that you'll have to take 2 RBs in a row after Manning unless you want your backfield to be the laughingstock of your league -- so forget about a stud WR or TE). Using the logic above, you can see that taking Manning in the first round gets more and more foolish the earlier you pick. Some may argue you can get away with Manning and a RB if you pick, say 1.11 and 2.2, but again I think that's stupid because you miss out on a stud WR. The dropoff in points from the top WRs is less steep than for RBs, but the fact remains that there are only a handful of studs who score double digit TDs every year. Skip one of them, and you'll spend the rest of the draft chasing sleepers, and the rest of the season combing the waiver wire to keep up with the guys who drafted Smith, Holt, Chad, TO, etc. That's about as clear as I can make it folks! Feel free to cut & paste this info, print it out and bring to your draft, etc. You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 i'll add that a solid running game complements the passing game. if you can run the ball consistently, you give the offense more options, you get more first downs. good runners can get the short yardage needed to keep drives alive. if you have more first downs, you are on the field longer. if you are on the field longer, you get more chances to throw the ball. by taking edge off the team, i would argue that the overall offense is worse, providing less chances for manning to throw the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 THus making Manning a bit higher in drafts awarding 6 for passing Td's. This is just wrong. He may score more, but his value increase is so minimal it really would not affect his draft position unless you have him going for 50+ TDs and the #2 QB getting say 20 TDs. unless you are starting 2 QBs, it doesn't really matter if the TDs are 4 or 6. the scarcity of players and relative value of QBs is still in place, still favoring RBs and top WRs. let someone else bite on manning and grab your QB in the 4th or 5th round. What he said explains it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG DOMINATOR Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Taking any QB in any year in the first round is very foolish to say the least. This year you can get Warner in the eighth, Delhome in the 7th, and a host of others in the 6th. The first 3 rounds belong to studs when having to start 2 in your lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBJPO01 Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 This is just wrong. He may score more, but his value increase is so minimal it really would not affect his draft position unless you have him going for 50+ TDs and the #2 QB getting say 20 TDs. What he said explains it all. If you would read my original quote, I clearly stated that there is NO reason to take him until 10 overall after at least 9 RB's are off board. I don't disagre with the logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 If you would read my original quote, I clearly stated that there is NO reason to take him until 10 overall after at least 9 RB's are off board. I don't disagre with the logic. 10 overall is still too early ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBJPO01 Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 (edited) 10 overall is still too early ... It most likely is. I'm in no way prescribing taking Manning in the 1st however, I wouldn't fault someone for doing it when they have a pick coming back to them early in the 2nd round, hence my argument for not taking him before at least #10. It's basically a difference in opinion and there's no right or wrong since we all know a lot of fantasy football is a crapshoot. Not looking to argue w/ anyone, was just putting in my 2 cents. Edited August 2, 2006 by KUBJPO01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 It most likely is. I'm in no way prescribing taking Manning in the 1st however, I wouldn't fault someone for doing it when they have a pick coming back to them early in the 2nd round, hence my argument for not taking him before at least #10. It's basically a difference in opinion and there's no right or wrong since we all know a lot of fantasy football is a crapshoot. Not looking to argue w/ anyone, was just putting in my 2 cents. no argument here! this is all for fun. your option is to adopt the strategy of forgetting about manning altogether and focus on those position players in the first 3 rounds. that is the strategy i take. if he falls to the 4th (which will never happen because someone will bite), then i take him, but otherwise, i'm not worrying about him and will be delighted when someone burns that spot so early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 The voices in my head tell me to take Peyton 1.1. And they probably know more than youse guys. Those same voices told me that Peyton is pissed off too. The voices reminded me that Peyton no longer has to appease a running back for fear that he will run off to another team if he doesn't--'cause Edge already left. It's time for Peyton to throw the ball until he can throw no more, and then, continue to throw the ball to victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Those same voices told me that Peyton is pissed off too. The voices reminded me that Peyton no longer has to appease a running back for fear that he will run off to another team if he doesn't--'cause Edge already left. It's time for Peyton to throw the ball until he can throw no more, and then, continue to throw the ball to victory. The problem is not whether the Colts run or pass to victory. They clearly showed last year that they are a team to be feared. We'll until the playoffs. Don't expect the Colts to do nothing but throw the ball. They will mix it up and but up a lot of points but Peyton is not worth a number 1 pick IMO. In fact Peyton was outscored by Palmer last year, so why would he not be the #1? QB's are not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Bump for Mr. OG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponce Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Now that I got your attention. Everyday it seems that a question is posted about taking Peyton Manning in the first round, and sometimes very early first round. I would like to make a motion that we post why this is usually a HUGE mistake and everytime someones asks "should I take Peyton at 1:3 that we refer them to the post and make them answer their own question. or I guess I could just ignore the post. Anyone want to second my motion? Preach on!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywood_69 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 you know whats funny about this topic is? in the preseason of 2004, SI'S peter king wrote an article titled the same way "why peyton should be picked #1" he gave his reasons and they were the same reasons that make him the best qb, we all know this, right? but what we didn't know as we were all passing on him is in fact he did throw for 49 tds that year and have an ungodly awesome fantasy campaign!!! i was kicking myself in the ballzc, because i read the article and laughed! but the owner in my league that year did not win, he didnt make the playoffs!! he was 3rd in fantasy scoring but .500 doesnt cut it. he did beat the living tar out of my team though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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