Mike Vick "Coach Killer"

[broncosn05]

Wonderful stats ... for a RB

 

If you're really watching the game you'd think more than just that about what he's done running the ball today.

[Grits and Shins]

If you're really watching the game you'd think more than just that about what he's done running the ball today.

 

 

I'm watching the game ... and I never argued that Vick does not run well .... clearly he does. That doesn't change the fact that he stinks as a QB. When Atlanta is in 3rd and long they need a guy that can pass ... you can't rely on the running of Vick.

[Grits and Shins]

3rd and long and Vick takes the sack instead of throwing the ball away ....

[broncosn05]

It's amazing how much better we are than the Saints and yet we're losing.

[Grits and Shins]

So after watching the whole game today.

 

Vick ran the ball very well but for the most part could not hit the side of a barn passing the ball. He got a ball in the general vicinity of Roddy White in the end zone but White couldn't hold on, it was a bad throw and would have required an excellent play by White to make the catch. He bounced the ball into WRs on critical 3rd downs too. There were several drops by WRs including one by Roddy White that would have scored and another one on the sideline that would have converted a 3rd down. New Orleans put a defense on the field that allowed Vick to run quite a bit but tightened up in the red zone where they could concentrate on containing Vick and Dunn. Atlanta was in the red zone three times against the worst red zone defense in the league and could only manage 1 TD (and 2 FGs). Vick was also sacked several times when he should have thrown the ball away ... but he is always looking to run and rarely throws the ball away.

 

Now the defense did a pretty good job giving up 2 big plays ... one to Henderson and the hail mary to Cooper. But they held NO to 14 points for quite awhile and the offense could not put points on the board. Even after giving up the 3rd TD Atlanta's defense was doing it's part. But Atlanta's offense could not generate any points to put any pressure on New Orleans. Finally the defense got tired.

 

9/24 and 84 yards passing. No TDs and no INTs.

 

Vick sucked today as a QB but looked awesome as a RB.

 

Atlanta's offense was one-dimensional today only having the ability to run the ball and one-dimensional offenses very rarely win games. Had Vick been able to sustain some drives by passing and put some points on the board they were in a position to win today's game.

[Big Score 1]

The defense is doing it's job.

 

With the exception of the TD to Henderson and the hail mary they have done pretty well.

 

I am the only one who doesn't understand this?

 

The D is doing it's job, except for allowing those two particular TD's?

 

What was the D doing on the other 17 points allowed? Playing exceptional?

[HowboutthemCowboys]

So after watching the whole game today.

 

Vick ran the ball very well but for the most part could not hit the side of a barn passing the ball. He got a ball in the general vicinity of Roddy White in the end zone but White couldn't hold on, it was a bad throw and would have required an excellent play by White to make the catch. He bounced the ball into WRs on critical 3rd downs too. There were several drops by WRs including one by Roddy White that would have scored and another one on the sideline that would have converted a 3rd down. New Orleans put a defense on the field that allowed Vick to run quite a bit but tightened up in the red zone where they could concentrate on containing Vick and Dunn. Atlanta was in the red zone three times against the worst red zone defense in the league and could only manage 1 TD (and 2 FGs). Vick was also sacked several times when he should have thrown the ball away ... but he is always looking to run and rarely throws the ball away.

 

Now the defense did a pretty good job giving up 2 big plays ... one to Henderson and the hail mary to Cooper. But they held NO to 14 points for quite awhile and the offense could not put points on the board. Even after giving up the 3rd TD Atlanta's defense was doing it's part. But Atlanta's offense could not generate any points to put any pressure on New Orleans. Finally the defense got tired.

 

9/24 and 84 yards passing. No TDs and no INTs.

 

Vick sucked today as a QB but looked awesome as a RB.

 

Atlanta's offense was one-dimensional today only having the ability to run the ball and one-dimensional offenses very rarely win games. Had Vick been able to sustain some drives by passing and put some points on the board they were in a position to win today's game.

 

are you Matt Schaub?

[Grits and Shins]

I am the only one who doesn't understand this?

 

The D is doing it's job, except for allowing those two particular TD's?

 

What was the D doing on the other 17 points allowed? Playing exceptional?

 

 

Those were certainly break downs in the defense and those happen to quite a few defenses in the league each week. The point is that they were holding New Orleans mostly in check. Had Atlanta been able to answer with some TDs it would have been a different game.

 

After the 1st quarter it was 14-3

 

With just a couple seconds left in the half it was 14-6 ... the defense was doing it's job ... then it gave up the hail mary with no time left in the half. That was a major break down. But even at 21-6 all is not lost if the offense would just put some points on the board.

 

The defense holds in the 3rd quarter and Dunn scores a TD making it a 21-13 ball game. Now if the offense can do it's job ATL is in position to win.

 

In the 4th quarter the Atlanta offense manages ZERO points and the defense is tired.

[Furd]

I watched just about the entire game today. (This seems to be important)

 

Vick drops back to pass. He doesn't have/can't find an open receiver, so he runs. And runs well.

 

Other than that, I didn't see Vick do anything well. Certainly, he did not display the skills that one would expect from an NFL QB.

[Grits and Shins]

Vick then demonstrates class by flipping off the fans ... twice.

[Big Score 1]

I watched just about the entire game today. (This seems to be important)

 

Vick drops back to pass. He doesn't have/can't find an open receiver, so he runs. And runs well.

 

If that was all you saw, then obviously you DID NOT watch just about the entire game yesterday.

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

If that was all you saw, then obviously you DID NOT watch just about the entire game yesterday.

 

So now you have to REALLY watch the entire game, not just watch the entire game?

 

I still can't get over you saying you watch every play of every game every sunday, and this must mean REALLY WATCH, on TV and computer!!

[Furd]

If that was all you saw, then obviously you DID NOT watch just about the entire game yesterday.

 

 

 

Well then, maybe I don't understand football. You explain to me what Vick did well in that game.

[Big Score 1]

Well then, maybe I don't understand football. You explain to me what Vick did well in that game.

 

This is what I quoted from you;

I watched just about the entire game today. (This seems to be important)

 

Vick drops back to pass. He doesn't have/can't find an open receiver, so he runs. And runs well.

 

Check the game review highlights being played incessantly & listen to some of the analysis of the game, then get back to me if you need any further help in understanding.

[Big Score 1]

So now you have to REALLY watch the entire game, not just watch the entire game?

 

I still can't get over you saying you watch every play of every game every sunday, and this must mean REALLY WATCH, on TV and computer!!

 

Check his post that I quoted TVH. Then you'll understand...or then again, maybe you won't

[junebugz]

It's amazing how much better we are than the Saints and yet we're losing.

 

[Furd]

This is what I quoted from you;

 

Check the game review highlights being played incessantly & listen to some of the analysis of the game, then get back to me if you need any further help in understanding.

 

 

 

You apparently have reading comprehension problems. I'll try typing slowly to see if that helps.

 

When Vick drops back to pass and then runs (I saw no QB draws) I assume that it means that: 1) there are no open receivers on the play; or 2) there are open receivers on the play, but Vick cannot find them. I realize that you don't want to accept the latter.

 

I suppose that there may be a third option - that Vick really isn't looking for a WR and is just biding some time before he runs. This one seems unlikely.

 

I'll continue to maintain that all Vick does well is run the football. A QB should be able to hit a wide open receiver. But this is merely competence, as I would expect any QB to hit a wide open receiver. Joey Harrington would throw a couple of really nice passes a game when he was in Detroit. This didn't make him a good passer. Detroit WRs would drop passes, which didn't make Harrington a bad passer. Overall, Harrington was a bad passer while with Detroit.

 

Vick is not a good passer. I doubt that many objective persons would say that he is a good passer. I'm still waiting to hear what Vick does well, other than run the football.

 

I guess that you just have lower expectations than others.

[Grits and Shins]

You apparently have reading comprehension problems. I'll try typing slowly to see if that helps.

 

When Vick drops back to pass and then runs (I saw no QB draws) I assume that it means that: 1) there are no open receivers on the play; or 2) there are open receivers on the play, but Vick cannot find them. I realize that you don't want to accept the latter.

 

I suppose that there may be a third option - that Vick really isn't looking for a WR and is just biding some time before he runs. This one seems unlikely.

 

I'll continue to maintain that all Vick does well is run the football. A QB should be able to hit a wide open receiver. But this is merely competence, as I would expect any QB to hit a wide open receiver. Joey Harrington would throw a couple of really nice passes a game when he was in Detroit. This didn't make him a good passer. Detroit WRs would drop passes, which didn't make Harrington a bad passer. Overall, Harrington was a bad passer while with Detroit.

 

Vick is not a good passer. I doubt that many objective persons would say that he is a good passer. I'm still waiting to hear what Vick does well, other than run the football.

 

I guess that you just have lower expectations than others.

 

 

Lower expectations and rose colored glasses.

[junebugz]

Here is BigScore acknowledging that Vick is an average traditional QB ... which I would imagine means that he is an average passer not a good passer

 

[Big Score 1]

Here is BigScore acknowledging that Vick is an average traditional QB ... which I would imagine means that he is an average passer not a good passer

 

Absolutely 100% correct junebugz & I've never said or maintained anything else.

[kraftykraft]

I'm sorry, but 9 of 24 for 83 yards or whatever it was is not just because his receivers made a few key drops.

 

Vick is just not a running QB. He's a runner, who plays the QB position. And after 5 seasons I don't think that he is going to all of a sudden turn into a nimble version of Peyton Manning.

[Big Score 1]

You apparently have reading comprehension problems. I'll try typing slowly to see if that helps.

We aparrently have a communication problem here. Even though I have specifically bolded the part of your sentence that I'm quoting & referring to, you still seem to have a problem identifying it.

It was your blanket statement that when Vick drops back to pass, He doesn't have/can't find an open receiver. This of course DID NOT happen everytime Vick dropped back to pass in the game.

When Vick drops back to pass and then runs (I saw no QB draws) I assume that it means that: 1) there are no open receivers on the play; or 2) there are open receivers on the play, but Vick cannot find them. I realize that you don't want to accept the latter.

Of course there is a 3)

Maybe...just maybe...he can see an open receiver 10+ yards away for a 1st down & can see an open lane for 10+ yards for a 1st down.

Possibly Vick prefers to run it & get the sure 100% 1st down ~ vs ~ throwing it to his stone handed WR's where the chance for the 1st down drops to 50%?

 

How about you honestly answer this question hypothetical question.

 

You're the QB of your team & you're in a 3rd & 10 situation, your team is behind and you MUST convert this 1st down. The play has been called and as it develops, you see you have two clear cut choices.

 

You can throw to your WR's who have been dropping the ball all game long, so you figure you've got about a 50/50 chance of converting the 1st down with a pass.

~ or ~

You KNOW you can run run for the 1st down and convert that MUST have 1st down, with 100% certainty.

 

What do you do?

Vick is not a good passer. I doubt that many objective persons would say that he is a good passer. I'm still waiting to hear what Vick does well, other than run the football.

While I agree that Vick is not an elite passer, he is nowhere near as bad as you're wanting to make him out to be & I think from your many posts in various Vick threads it is because you lack objectivity. He is definitely a good enough passer to be an NFL QB.

As far as what Vick does well.

 

I honestly don't think there is a QB playing the game today, who has the ability to throw the deep ball as effortlessly as Vick, whether he's in the pocket and has the time to plant, square his shoulders & throw, or, is running for his life as the pocket is collapsing around him & throws it back across his body while off balance.

 

This also brings up Vick's unparalelled escapability from a collapsed pocket. Where any other QB would be sacked for a loss, Vick can escape & either throw it while on the run, or run it for a positive play.

If you watched Vick last year after he injured his knee in the Minn game where he was limited in his scrambling and stayed in the pocket more, you would've seen he made real progress in his fundamentals such as his footwork & reading defenses. Vick has continued that progress this year as well under the tutealage of Musgrave.

 

I don't think anyone who was watched Vick these last two years with an unbiased eye, would disagree with either of the above two points.

I guess that you just have lower expectations than others.

I don't think it's that I have lower expectations than you do, but more that I see Vick without any preconcieved notions. I can see that he does not have the best "Touch" on his passes at times, but I can also recognize that compared to two years ago, there have been major improvenment in that part of his game. I recognize that he is now legitimately reading D's, while others do not.

 

That's my take anyway, now flame away boys

[Big Score 1]

I'm sorry, but 9 of 24 for 83 yards or whatever it was is not just because his receivers made a few key drops.

Sorry to disagree kraftykraft, but yes, it is.

 

The Falcons WR's don't drop those 5 very catchable balls & suddenly that 9 of 24 for 83 yards, becomes 13 of 24 for 167 yards & 2 TD's & that's an inescapable fact......to go along with his 166 yards rushing!

 

Also, as far as I know, 10 yards in the NFL = a 1st down, whether it's 10 yards through the air, or on the ground.

[Grits and Shins]

Maybe...just maybe...he can see an open receiver 10+ yards away for a 1st down & can see an open lane for 10+ yards for a 1st down.

Possibly Vick prefers to run it & get the sure 100% 1st down ~ vs ~ throwing it to his stone handed WR's where the chance for the 1st down drops to 50%?

 

 

There it is. It is all the WRs fault.

 

Here's a news flash ... the team can not thrive when it is one-dimensional. How easy do you imagine it is to come from behind when you can't pass the ball?

 

 

How about you honestly answer this question hypothetical question.

 

You're the QB of your team & you're in a 3rd & 10 situation, your team is behind and you MUST convert this 1st down. The play has been called and as it develops, you see you have two clear cut choices.

 

You can throw to your WR's who have been dropping the ball all game long, so you figure you've got about a 50/50 chance of converting the 1st down with a pass.

~ or ~

You KNOW you can run run for the 1st down and convert that MUST have 1st down, with 100% certainty.

 

What do you do?

 

 

That is the problem. Until Vick learns to convert 3rd and long by passing AND running he will always be one-dimensional and on the whole ineffective. Don't you think the other team knows that Vick can't throw the ball and he's likely to try to scramble for it?

 

While I agree that Vick is not an elite passer, he is nowhere near as bad as you're wanting to make him out to be & I think from your many posts in various Vick threads it is because you lack objectivity. He is definitely a good enough passer to be an NFL QB.

As far as what Vick does well.

 

I honestly don't think there is a QB playing the game today, who has the ability to throw the deep ball as effortlessly as Vick, whether he's in the pocket and has the time to plant, square his shoulders & throw, or, is running for his life as the pocket is collapsing around him & throws it back across his body while off balance.

 

This also brings up Vick's unparalelled escapability from a collapsed pocket. Where any other QB would be sacked for a loss, Vick can escape & either throw it while on the run, or run it for a positive play.

If you watched Vick last year after he injured his knee in the Minn game where he was limited in his scrambling and stayed in the pocket more, you would've seen he made real progress in his fundamentals such as his footwork & reading defenses. Vick has continued that progress this year as well under the tutealage of Musgrave.

 

I don't think anyone who was watched Vick these last two years with an unbiased eye, would disagree with either of the above two points.

 

I don't think it's that I have lower expectations than you do, but more that I see Vick without any preconcieved notions. I can see that he does not have the best "Touch" on his passes at times, but I can also recognize that compared to two years ago, there have been major improvenment in that part of his game. I recognize that he is now legitimately reading D's, while others do not.

 

That's my take anyway, now flame away boys

 

 

I laugh every time you accuse us of not being objective while you have on your rose colored glasses exclaiming to the world the wonderful virtues of Vick and how it is everybody else's fault that he sucks as a QB. "Good enough passer to be an NFL QB" ... ... now that is a funny one. If Vick's passing ability was good enough to be an NFL passer then Ryan Leaf would still be playing. Please tell me what good it does to be able to throw a nice long pretty ball that misses his WRs?

 

His escapability from a collapsing pocket is certainly excellent ... however, he does get sacked too.

 

Vick has only ONE thing going for him ... he is fast and runs well. he can't read defense and he can't throw well.

[alexgaddis]

Don't worry BS, when Vick goes to another team you won't have to defend him anymore and you'll feel much better...