Best Athlete By Number

[Sgt. Ryan]

#8 - ripken is deserving, in my book. guy was more than just the streak, he's one of the best SS to ever play the game.

 

In Ripkins prime, he never did what many SS are doing in this era.

 

You take away that streak and Ripken is behind Eddie Murray as the face of that franchise.

[Azazello1313]

In Ripkins prime, he never did what many SS are doing in this era.

 

why don't you compare him to SS of HIS era? who do you think is responsible for changing the position from what it was then to what it is now?

[Randall]

88 is a very popular number but they got that one right with Alan Page.

 

League MVP as a defensive player.

 

 

And very accomplished after retiring too.

[Sgt. Ryan]

why don't you compare him to SS of HIS era? who do you think is responsible for changing the position from what it was then to what it is now?

 

This is like Boxing, where eras and competition makes a guy great. Roy Jones Jr beating up a bunch of tin cans, until the division became respectable, and then he was embarassed by those will similar talent, is a perrfect example. And look at todays baseball, Piazza and Pudge are 2 of the best offensive catchers of all time. 1b - Pujols is one of the best ever, 2B, Soriano before moving to the OF, and now Utley are putting up better numbers than any before them. SS, the same way. So this is across the board. Athletes are better today, and Ripken was a rare bird in his time, but looking at things knowing what we know now about the sport, Ripken was over hyped, and still is because of that streak.

Edited July 5, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[budlitebrad]

They picked Jack Youngblood over Ocho Cinco?

 

Robbery!

Edited July 5, 2007 by budlitebrad

[Azazello1313]

This is like Boxing, where eras and competition makes a guy great. Roy Jones Jr beating up a bunch of tin cans, until the division became respectable, and then he was embarassed by those will similar talent, is a perrfect example. And look at todays baseball, Piazza and Pudge are 2 of the best offensive catchers of all time. 1b - Pujols is one of the best ever, 2B, Soriano before moving to the OF, and now Utley are putting up better numbers than any before them. SS, the same way. So this is across the board. Athletes are better today, and Ripken was a rare bird in his time, but looking at things knowing what we know now about the sport, Ripken was over hyped, and still is because of that streak.

 

there were plenty of great SS in ripken's era (ozzie smith, barry larkin, allen trammel, robin yount), they just weren't, with the exception of yount, RBI-type hitters like ripken. and ripken was the best of that bunch.

 

who's supposedly so much better than him now? jeter hits for a better average. that little roid-rager tejada hits for more power. a-rod moved to 3rd a whole lot earlier in his career than ripken did. i don't think there's a SS playing today (that still plays SS) who you can say is a better baseball player than ripken. obviously, he got a lot of extra attention for the streak (it's a pretty f'n remarkable streak, let's not forget), and a lot of that extra attention came at a time when his skills were diminshed by age. maybe THAT's why pseudo-fans like yourself THINK he is overrated as a SS.

Edited July 5, 2007 by Azazello1313

[tbimm]

He did change the position - first power-hitting SS ever, IIRC.

Seems to me that an old guy named Ernie Banks hit a bunch of homeruns as a SS. In fact his best HR seasons came as a SS!

Edited July 5, 2007 by tbimm

[Sgt. Ryan]

there were plenty of great SS in ripken's era (ozzie smith, barry larkin, allen trammel, robin yount), they just weren't, with the exception of yount, RBI-type hitters like ripken. and ripken was the best of that bunch.

 

who's supposedly so much better than him now? jeter hits for a better average. that little roid-rager tejada hits for more power. a-rod moved to 3rd a whole lot earlier in his career than ripken did. i don't think there's a SS playing today (that still plays SS) who you can say is a better baseball player than ripken. obviously, he got a lot of extra attention for the streak (it's a pretty f'n remarkable streak, let's not forget), and a lot of that extra attention came at a time when his skills were diminshed by age. maybe THAT's why pseudo-fans like yourself THINK he is overrated as a SS.

 

Ripken was never a top 5 overall player in his era. Arod certainly was, and Reyes is now. Jimmy Rollins is a more complete SS than Ripken ever was, And Id take Jeter hand down over Ripken any day. There are 4, and Nomar was much better as well, but injuries robbed him. BTW, Arod moved to 3rd to accomodate Jeter at SS, not because of diminished skills like when Ripken moved. Arod could easily be the best fieding SS today. And if he didnt play in NY, he would still be there, so I dont think its fair to knock Arod, because he no longer plays SS. he did for the majority of his career thus far, and should still be, if Jeter wasnt so egotistical, and just moved to 2B, like he should have.

 

 

That streak isnt that remarkable. Didnt he also step over the pickett line just for the streak. Its the only streak out there, that isnt performance based. Instead its just playing when you arer paid to play, every day. And its baseball, how damn hard is it to play this game every day. favres streak is 10 times the streak this is, based solely on the sport each plays.

Edited July 5, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Randall]

Arod could easily be the best fieding SS today. And if he didnt play in NY, he would still be there, so I dont think its fair to knock Arod, because he no longer plays SS. he did for the majority of his career thus far, and should still be, if Jeter wasnt so egotistical, and just moved to 2B, like he should have.

 

 

And ARod may hit 800 home runs.

[Azazello1313]

Ripken was never a top 5 overall player in his era. Arod certainly was, and Reyes is now. Jimmy Rollins is a more complete SS than Ripken ever was, And Id take Jeter hand down over Ripken any day. There are 4, and Nomar was much better as well, but injuries robbed him. BTW, Arod moved to 3rd to accomodate Jeter at SS, not because of diminished skills like when Ripken moved. Arod could easily be the best fieding SS today. And if he didnt play in NY, he would still be there, so I dont think its fair to knock Arod, because he no longer plays SS. he did for the majority of his career thus far, and should still be, if Jeter wasnt so egotistical, and just moved to 2B, like he should have.

That streak isnt that remarkable. Didnt he also step over the pickett line just for the streak. Its the only streak out there, that isnt performance based. Instead its just playing when you arer paid to play, every day. And its baseball, how damn hard is it to play this game every day. favres streak is 10 times the streak this is, based solely on the sport each plays.

the many layers of stupidity in this post are remarkable. ripken was never a top 5 overall player? right, that's why he won two AL MVPs.

 

reyes is a top 5 player in MLB right now? uhh, maybe in your fantasy league, because he steals a lot of bases. he's a nice little player with about 2 good years under his belt. comparing him to ripken based on that is absurd.

 

jimmy rollins a more complete SS than ripken ever was...

 

if baseball is so easy to play every day, why is no one else in the history of the league, except lou gehrig, anywhere close to his streak?

[Azazello1313]

And ARod may hit 800 home runs.

 

for the record, i'm not saying ripken does down as a greater player than a-rod. i don't think that one is even close. if you're calling a-rod a SS, really the only names you can rank up there with him are honus wagner and maybe ernie banks. but ripken is probably top-5 all time at SS, so i think it's a kinda silly to call him "overrated".

[keggerz]

And its baseball, how damn hard is it to play this game every day. favres streak is 10 times the streak this is, based solely on the sport each plays.

a 162 game schedule is grueling even if he isnt being chased by 300 LB Lineman.

and fwiw I am not trying to turn this into a what sport is harder to play thing just pointing out that its not as easy as you think to play ball for that long every day and be as good as he was during his career...he may not have the gaudy numbers like some of todays players are putting up etc...but he was a damn fine SS and a good role model too

[Big John]

more....

 

#35 Rickey Henderson

 

#36 Jerome Bettis

 

#43 Dennis Eckersley

 

#47 Jack Morris

 

#52 Mike Webster

 

#70 Jim Marshall

 

#72 "Too Tall" Jones

 

#75 Mean Joe Greene

 

#81 Art Monk

 

#84 needs to go to his brother Sterling

 

#87 Willie Davis

 

#88 Marvin Harrison.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Some Philly arguments:

 

#1: Bernie Parent won two stanley Cups, and is widely considered one of the Top 5 golatenders of all-time. Warren Moon?

#6: tough one to argue against with Bill Russell, but I can't think of the #6, and not think of Dr. J

#20: While Sanders is also tough to argue against, Mike Schmidt was the best third-baseman of all-time

[Menudo]

more....

 

#35 Rickey Henderson

 

#36 Jerome Bettis

#43 Dennis Eckersley

 

#47 Jack Morris

 

#52 Mike Webster

#70 Jim Marshall

 

#72 "Too Tall" Jones

 

#75 Mean Joe Greene

 

#81 Art Monk

 

#84 needs to go to his brother Sterling

 

#87 Willie Davis

 

#88 Marvin Harrison.

 

This guy knows what he is talking about.

[Azazello1313]

#84 needs to go to his brother Sterling

 

no way in heck, BJ.

 

shannon (as a tight end) - 815 catches, 10,060 yards, 62 TDs, 8 pro bowls and 3 super bowl rings

sterling (as a WR)) - 595 catches, 8134 yards, 65 TDs, 5 pro bowls and 0 super bowls.

 

not even close.

[Sgt. Ryan]

the many layers of stupidity in this post are remarkable. ripken was never a top 5 overall player? right, that's why he won two AL MVPs.

 

reyes is a top 5 player in MLB right now? uhh, maybe in your fantasy league, because he steals a lot of bases. he's a nice little player with about 2 good years under his belt. comparing him to ripken based on that is absurd.

 

jimmy rollins a more complete SS than ripken ever was...

 

if baseball is so easy to play every day, why is no one else in the history of the league, except lou gehrig, anywhere close to his streak?

 

 

Actually the many layers of stupidity in your every post is remarkable. Its insane the higher than though persona you spew on this board. Ignorance is the only thing I think of when I read your posts, and it never ceases to amaze me how you still think yoru right about everything, when you couldnt be more wrong about almost everything.

 

Ripken was a nice SS in his day, but take away that streak, and he doesnt compare to todays SS. Juan Gonzales also won 2 AL MVPs, and he was never considered a top 5 player in the game, so that argument doesnt hold a lick of credability. See, sometimes the best players, play on the worst teams, and the MVP is generally voted for a player on one of the best teams. But Im sure you knew that, when you posted his 2 AL MVPS, are a lock for him being a top 5 player at his time. And what Reyes is doing, is more impressive than Ripken. Hell Ripken hit 30 HRs once in a 20 yr career. Hit under 20 HR in 9 of those 20 yrs. Ripken was nothing more tha a pioneer because he was 6'4 playing the position. He only won 2 gold gloves, so how good really was he in the field. Ripken has only 200 hits, twice in his 20 yr career, so longevity more than anything had to do with his 3000 hits, than his greatness. Without that streak, this guy goes down as the first tall SS to play at a somewhat high level.

 

Ripkens career stats

http://www.greenwichtime.com/bal-ripkencar...10589.htmlstory

 

 

Michael Young already has twice as many 200 hit seasons in his less than 8 yrs, than Ripken had in 20 yrs, and is a better fielding SS.

Jose Reyes is on pace to crush Ripken in Hits, doubles, triples, Runs, AVG, OPS, Steals, and fielding %. And is a MVP candidate.

Jeter is not only the most clutch SS ever, but his numbers run circles around Ripken in virtually every category but long balls and RBI.

Arod blows Ripken away in every offensive and defensive stat out there.

 

BTW, Id take Rollins today over Ripken anyday. Rollins is a better SS, has a stronger arm, has more speed, and is just coming into his own with the long ball. If he plays 20 yrs, expect similar numbers accorss the board but fileding %, steals, and arm strength, where Rollins destroys Ripken.

 

 

And you mentioned Tejada on roids, but do you have proof Ripken never did them. Seriously, you are so sure Tejada was juicing, but what proof do you have.

[keggerz]

Actually the many layers of stupidity in your every post is remarkable. Its insane the higher than though persona you spew on this board. Ignorance is the only thing I think of when I read your posts, and it never ceases to amaze me how you still think yoru right about everything, when you couldnt be more wrong about almost everything.

 

Ripken was a nice SS in his day, but take away that streak, and he doesnt compare to todays SS. Juan Gonzales also won 2 AL MVPs, and he was never considered a top 5 player in the game, so that argument doesnt hold a lick of credability. See, sometimes the best players, play on the worst teams, and the MVP is generally voted for a player on one of the best teams. But Im sure you knew that, when you posted his 2 AL MVPS, are a lock for him being a top 5 player at his time. And what Reyes is doing, is more impressive than Ripken. Hell Ripken hit 30 HRs once in a 20 yr career. Hit under 20 HR in 9 of those 20 yrs. Ripken was nothing more tha a pioneer because he was 6'4 playing the position. He only won 2 gold gloves, so how good really was he in the field. Ripken has only 200 hits, twice in his 20 yr career, so longevity more than anything had to do with his 3000 hits, than his greatness. Without that streak, this guy goes down as the first tall SS to play at a somewhat high level.

 

Ripkens career stats

http://www.greenwichtime.com/bal-ripkencar...10589.htmlstory

Michael Young already has twice as many 200 hit seasons in his less than 8 yrs, than Ripken had in 20 yrs, and is a better fielding SS.

Jose Reyes is on pace to crush Ripken in Hits, doubles, triples, Runs, AVG, OPS, Steals, and fielding %. And is a MVP candidate.

Jeter is not only the most clutch SS ever, but his numbers run circles around Ripken in virtually every category but long balls and RBI.

Arod blows Ripken away in every offensive and defensive stat out there.

 

BTW, Id take Rollins today over Ripken anyday. Rollins is a better SS, has a stronger arm, has more speed, and is just coming into his own with the long ball. If he plays 20 yrs, expect similar numbers accorss the board but fileding %, steals, and arm strength, where Rollins destroys Ripken.

And you mentioned Tejada on roids, but do you have proof Ripken never did them. Seriously, you are so sure Tejada was juicing, but what proof do you have.

i have an idea, GO PICK

[DMD]

#32 should be Walt Garrison. What a farce.

[Bill Swerski]

Seems to me that an old guy named Ernie Banks hit a bunch of homeruns as a SS. In fact his best HR seasons came as a SS!

 

Geez, I didn't even remember that old Ernie played SS.

 

Then again, I don't pay much attention to the Cubs.

 

And ARod may hit 800 home runs.

 

Highly doubtful, unless he juices up like Barry or is very, VERY lucky in avoiding age-induced injuries like Hammerin' Hank was.

 

And LOL at Sarge for arguing that Ripken wasn't a top player back in the 80's and early '90s. Two MVPs, Gold Glove-caliber defense at the toughest position on the field, 431 career HRs, and 8 Silver Slugger awards (the latter two unheard of for a SS at the time). Yeah, not a top player at all.

 

Jimmy Rollins...

Edited July 6, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[Sgt. Ryan]

Geez, I didn't even remember that old Ernie played SS.

 

Then again, I don't pay much attention to the Cubs.

Highly doubtful, unless he juices up like Barry or is very, VERY lucky in avoiding age-induced injuries like Hammerin' Hank was.

 

And LOL at Sarge for arguing that Ripken wasn't a top player back in the 80's and early '90s. Two MVPs, Gold Glove-caliber defense at the toughest position on the field, 431 career HRs, and 8 Silver Slugger awards (the latter two unheard of for a SS at the time). Yeah, not a top player at all.

 

Jimmy Rollins...

 

 

Im not arguing he wasnt a good player back then, just that he has been surpassed by more than 1 SS, and is remembered for that streak. without it, he is just another player whose stats dont measure up with todays stars. Ripken most certainly was a good player, but MVPs, dont mean your a top 5 player in the league. Was Morneau really a top 5 player last yr, or how bout Juan Gone the yrs he wont it. 2 gold gloves is nothing, if he was a better defensive SS, he would have plenty more in 20 yrs. Good player, without question. Top 5 of his generation, or best SS prior to this era, hardly the case. Ernie Banks was better, and he came before Ripken.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Azazello1313]

Juan Gonzales also won 2 AL MVPs, and he was never considered a top 5 player in the game

 

the hell he wasn't. his last couple years in texas he was easily one of the two or three most feared hitters in baseball.

 

And what Reyes is doing, is more impressive than Ripken. Hell Ripken hit 30 HRs once in a 20 yr career.

 

and reyes has never hit 20.

 

He only won 2 gold gloves

 

only two, huh? and how many have reyes, rollins, young and all these other current pretty good SSs you keep mentioning won, combined? zero.

 

Michael Young already has twice as many 200 hit seasons in his less than 8 yrs, than Ripken had in 20 yrs, and is a better fielding SS.

 

better fielding SS? based on what? all his gold gloves (0)?

 

Jose Reyes is on pace to crush Ripken in Hits, doubles, triples, Runs, AVG, OPS, Steals, and fielding %. And is a MVP candidate.

 

right, and jay cutler is "on pace" to shatter marino's TD record. the guy has had one good season, one REALLY good season, and he's on pace this year for another really good season. get back to me in 20 years and maybe we can compare ripken and jose f'n reyes.

 

oh and ripken WON 2 MVPs, on top of being a "candidate" many others. but you already knew that.

 

BTW, Id take Rollins today over Ripken anyday.

 

that's because you're an idiot who doesn't know schit about baseball except how your crappy fantasy team is doing.

[Azazello1313]

One of the all-time great shortstops, Cal Ripken, Jr.'s other achievements are somewhat overshadowed by his consecutive games played record. Baseball's tallest full-time shortstop (6'4"), he combined power and defense in a way rivaled by few of his predecessors. A hometown hero who has played his entire career for the Baltimore Orioles, he started 17 consecutive All-Star games (the last three as a third baseman), hit more home runs than any shortstop in history and owns highest single-season fielding percentage for a shortstop.

 

Born and raised in nearby Havre de Grace, MD, Ripken was originally drafted as a pitcher, but made it to the big leagues for good as a third baseman in 1982. Moved to short by manager Earl Weaver on July 1, he finished the campaign as AL Rookie of the Year, hitting .264 with 28 HR and 93 RBI. He also began a streak of consecutive innings played that hit 8,243 over 904 games before ending September 14, 1987, and a consecutive games played streak which would last almost eleven more years.

 

In 1983 Ripken emphatically defied the sophomore jinx. Batting .318 with 27 HR and 102 RBI while leading the AL in hits (211), doubles (47), and runs scored (121), he became the first player to win Rookie of the Year and Most Valuable Player in consecutive seasons. Completing a storybook year, he recorded the final putout in the 1983 World Series, a liner off the bat of Garry Maddox, as the Orioles defeated the Phillies in five games for their first World Championship since 1970.

 

The following season Ripken set the A.L. single season records for assists by a shortstop with 583. On May 6th, 1984 he hit for the cycle in Texas, becoming the first Oriole to do so since Brooks Robinson in 1960, and finished the season with 28 home runs and a .304 batting average.

 

Ripken had his doubters, many of whom found it hard to reconcile the images of a great-fielding shortstop and a heavy hitter. Steadily improving his defensive game, Ripken led the league in assists in 1983, 1984, 1986, and 1987; putouts in 1985; and double plays in 1983 and 1985. But Ripken also led all major league shortstops in home runs, RBI, runs scored, and slugging percentage each year from 1983 to 1986. He was the American League's top All-Star vote getter in 1985 and 1986. In 1987 Junior was managed by his father, longtime Orioles third base coach Cal Sr., and joined in the Baltimore infield by younger brother Billy at second base.

 

Over the years, every time Ripken's hitting performance declined, The Streak was cited as a drain on his strength and stamina. His father ended his consecutive innings streak in 1987, sitting him at the ends of several games whose outcomes were foregone conclusions. Ripken stemmed the decline and temporarily silenced the critics with his 1991 MVP season. He finished first in the AL in total bases with 368 (an AL record for a shortstop, since broken by Alex Rodriguez), second with a .566 slugging percentage, second in doubles with 46, and second in hits with 210. That year he became the first AL shortstop ever to reach 30 HR (34, third in AL) and 100 RBI (114, 4th in AL) with a .300 batting average (.323, sixth in the AL) and the first right-handed AL batter since Al Rosen in 1953 to hit 30 home runs while striking out less than 50 times.

 

The year was highlighted by a stellar performance at the All-Star game. After awing the assembled All-Stars and fans with 12 home runs in 22 swings during the home run derby, Ripken proved his groove was no fluke the next day. Belting a three run homer off former teammate Dennis Martinez, Ripken won game MVP honors. The season would end on a bittersweet note, however, as Ripken bounced into a 5-4-3 double play to end the last game at Memorial Stadium on October 6, 1991.

 

Inexplicably, one season after setting career highs in homers, RBIs and extra-base hits, Ripken set career lows in those categories in 1992 with a discouraging .251, 14 HR, 72 RBI season. His fielding, however, only got better as the years went by. He set the AL shortstop season record for fielding percentage with a .996 mark in 1990, committing just three errors in 161 games, and setting another record with 95 consecutive errorless games (April 14-July 27) and 431 consecutive errorless chances. Incredibly, Ripken would not win the Gold Glove that season; the award went to Ozzie Guillen and his 17 errors. Ripken would, however, win the award in 1991 and 1992.

 

but hey, sgt shortbus says jimmy rollins is better

[Randall]

Highly doubtful, unless he juices up like Barry or is very, VERY lucky in avoiding age-induced injuries like Hammerin' Hank was.

 

 

He doesn't need drugs but does need to stay healthy. Doubtful but possible. Griffey couldn't do but you never know.

[MikesVikes]

#32 should be Walt Garrison. What a farce.

 

Every time I hear his name all I can think of is "just a little pinch between my teeth and gums."

 

Btw, 44 could only be one and only Chuck Foreman.

 

Good call on #70 for Jim Marshall. There will never be another one like him, ever.