Goopster24 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Goop, where did you read/hear that other coaches have said this? Do you mean they said that stealing signals was common practice or videotaping signals was common practice? I know that sign/signal stealing is common in every sport but haven't read/heard anything about other NFL teams using a video camera I will post this link for the third time because it looks like no one has even looked at it: Link And don't point to "Legal spying." It is ALL the same. It all hurts the integrity of the game in this sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilwiggum Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 The PATS cheated, they were caught, they were punished. What more do people want? I think the only thing I have learned out of this entire process is that the PATS went from being a model organization a few years ago, to becoming the NY Yankees of the NFL. That is frigging depressing as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I know that sign/signal stealing is common in every sport but haven't read/heard anything about other NFL teams using a video camera This is the grey area for me... Are we, as football fans and supposed ethical people, really going to argue that "stealing signs" is OK, as long as you abide by the accepted ways of stealing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 So are you saying you truly don't believe any other teams steal signals, or more specifically "hurt the integrity of the game"? Because I think that is naive thinking, but that is just my view I guess. No, I believe that other teams try to do so VISUALLY, but they apparently don't try to the extent that they've been caught TWICE in less than a year. If you believe that the Pats are just like any other team, I'd say that you're dead wrong. The Belichick-era Patriots have a long history of bending the rules... -We saw their CBs and LBs rough up the Colts WRs and TEs in the '03 AFC Championship game, knowing that the refs would be less likely to call penalties in the playoffs. The penalties were so egregious that the league had to institute the "point of emphasis" to mandate that the refs enforce the freaking rules, even if hurts the home team in the playoffs. -Belichick constantly abuses the league's injury report. I believe that Brady has been listed as "questionable" or "probable" for the last two or three years with a shoulder injury. Again, the NFL had to change the way that coaches use the injury report because of Belichick's abuse of the system. -They employ legendary cheap-shot artist Rodney Harrison, who I saw try to rip Marvin Harrison's head off on a tackle last year. This is the same Rodney Harrison who recently pleaded guilty to purchasing and using HGH earlier this year. So not only is Harrison purposely trying to injure key players on the opponent's team on the field, he's using a banned performance-enhancing substance off of it. Now combine this with the TWO instances of illegal filming and tell me with a straight face that the Pats are no different than any other NFL team. They're not. Not to take away from what they've accomplished, but there's no question that they've bent the rules at times to get where they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Not to take away from what they've accomplished, but there's no question that they've bent the rules at times to get where they are. A certain snow-removal incident also comes to mind..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 (edited) Now combine this with the TWO instances of illegal filming and tell me with a straight face that the Pats are no different than any other NFL team. They're not. Not to take away from what they've accomplished, but there's no question that they've bent the rules at times to get where they are. I said, and have continued to say that what they did in this instance IS NOT different from what other teams do. And I will stand by that. The other instances that you mentioned? Yeah, the Patriots love to bend the rules and I don't doubt that. To think that people stealing signs one way is WORSE than another is stupid. If you are going to argue that stealing signs is bad, then be consistent. Edited September 14, 2007 by Goopster24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ced1001 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 No, I believe that other teams try to do so VISUALLY, but they apparently don't try to the extent that they've been caught TWICE in less than a year. If you believe that the Pats are just like any other team, I'd say that you're dead wrong. The Belichick-era Patriots have a long history of bending the rules... -We saw their CBs and LBs rough up the Colts WRs and TEs in the '03 AFC Championship game, knowing that the refs would be less likely to call penalties in the playoffs. The penalties were so egregious that the league had to institute the "point of emphasis" to mandate that the refs enforce the freaking rules, even if hurts the home team in the playoffs. -Belichick constantly abuses the league's injury report. I believe that Brady has been listed as "questionable" or "probable" for the last two or three years with a shoulder injury. Again, the NFL had to change the way that coaches use the injury report because of Belichick's abuse of the system. -They employ legendary cheap-shot artist Rodney Harrison, who I saw try to rip Marvin Harrison's head off on a tackle last year. This is the same Rodney Harrison who recently pleaded guilty to purchasing and using HGH earlier this year. So not only is Harrison purposely trying to injure key players on the opponent's team on the field, he's using a banned performance-enhancing substance off of it. Now combine this with the TWO instances of illegal filming and tell me with a straight face that the Pats are no different than any other NFL team. They're not. Not to take away from what they've accomplished, but there's no question that they've bent the rules at times to get where they are. The items which you point to on your list are simply ridiculous. - We saw the Pats CB rough up the WRs... rediculous. This is called strategy. Your boys are soft. The Pats knew they wouldn't call penalites in the playoffs. Is that their fault, or excellent strategy. Could the Colts have done it too? - Controlling the injury report. Just because the Pats choose to be smart about the information they disseminate doesn't mean this is wrong. - HGH - see the cheater which tarnishes your superbowl team, Dominic Rhodes. - Now combined this with the fact that Bill Polian sits on the competition committee and votes to change rules to benefit his own team and i think we're pretty even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 The items which you point to on your list are simply ridiculous. - We saw the Pats CB rough up the WRs... rediculous. This is called strategy. Your boys are soft. The Pats knew they wouldn't call penalites in the playoffs. Is that their fault, or excellent strategy. Could the Colts have done it too? - Controlling the injury report. Just because the Pats choose to be smart about the information they disseminate doesn't mean this is wrong. - HGH - see the cheater which tarnishes your superbowl team, Dominic Rhodes. - Now combined this with the fact that Bill Polian sits on the competition committee and votes to change rules to benefit his own team and i think we're pretty even. I will agree with everything you said except the injury report. If we are talking about "rules", it is illegal to withhold information, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilwiggum Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 No, I believe that other teams try to do so VISUALLY, but they apparently don't try to the extent that they've been caught TWICE in less than a year. If you believe that the Pats are just like any other team, I'd say that you're dead wrong. The Belichick-era Patriots have a long history of bending the rules... -We saw their CBs and LBs rough up the Colts WRs and TEs in the '03 AFC Championship game, knowing that the refs would be less likely to call penalties in the playoffs. The penalties were so egregious that the league had to institute the "point of emphasis" to mandate that the refs enforce the freaking rules, even if hurts the home team in the playoffs. -Belichick constantly abuses the league's injury report. I believe that Brady has been listed as "questionable" or "probable" for the last two or three years with a shoulder injury. Again, the NFL had to change the way that coaches use the injury report because of Belichick's abuse of the system. -They employ legendary cheap-shot artist Rodney Harrison, who I saw try to rip Marvin Harrison's head off on a tackle last year. This is the same Rodney Harrison who recently pleaded guilty to purchasing and using HGH earlier this year. So not only is Harrison purposely trying to injure key players on the opponent's team on the field, he's using a banned performance-enhancing substance off of it. Now combine this with the TWO instances of illegal filming and tell me with a straight face that the Pats are no different than any other NFL team. They're not. Not to take away from what they've accomplished, but there's no question that they've bent the rules at times to get where they are. Actually the Injury Report was adjusted because Mike Shanahan was abusing the report and subsequently fined for abusing it. You cannot blame the Patriots for the refs not calling "penalties" in the playoffs. The refs are the ones you should be mad at. Was Harrisson fined for his hit on Marvin? The NFL isn't shy about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I said, and have continued to say that what they did in this instance IS NOT different from what other teams do. And I will stand by that. The other instances that you mentioned? Yeah, the Patriots love to bend the rules and I don't doubt that. OK, so you're seeing a trend now? Well, that's a start. The items which you point to on your list are simply ridiculous. - We saw the Pats CB rough up the WRs... rediculous. This is called strategy. Your boys are soft. The Pats knew they wouldn't call penalites in the playoffs. Is that their fault, or excellent strategy. Could the Colts have done it too? - Controlling the injury report. Just because the Pats choose to be smart about the information they disseminate doesn't mean this is wrong. Strategy indeed, but Belichick has most definitely pushed the envelope too far in both cases. The league's mandates that followed certainly support that. And Belichick isn't just secretive with the injury report - he flat-out lies about Brady's shoulder. - HGH - see the cheater which tarnishes your superbowl team, Dominic Rhodes. Would you care to provide a link in support of that baseless accusation? - Now combined this with the fact that Bill Polian sits on the competition committee and votes to change rules to benefit his own team and i think we're pretty even. Um, no, Polian didn't change any of the rules, moran. He simply asked that the existing ones be enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ced1001 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Oh yeah... You don't need to tape defensive signals, because, when the Colts play in the RCA dome, they just pipe in the crown noise to make it impossible for the visiting offense to hear a snap count or audible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Oh yeah... You don't need to tape defensive signals, because, when the Colts play in the RCA dome, they just pipe in the crown noise to make it impossible for the visiting offense to hear a snap count or audible. Another baseless accusation. Good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Oh yeah... You don't need to tape defensive signals, because, when the Colts play in the RCA dome, they just pipe in the crown noise to make it impossible for the visiting offense to hear a snap count or audible. C'mon man! You got it wrong! They increased the temperature in the RCA Dome for the 2nd half because more than half the Patriot defenders had the flu and were sick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ced1001 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 OK, so you're seeing a trend now? Well, that's a start.Strategy indeed, but Belichick has most definitely pushed the envelope too far in both cases. The league's mandates that followed certainly support that. And Belichick isn't just secretive with the injury report - he flat-out lies about Brady's shoulder. Would you care to provide a link in support of that baseless accusation? Um, no, Polian didn't change any of the rules, moran. He simply asked that the existing ones be enforced. The four game suspension he is currently serving. And, Tom Brady has been on the injury report as probable with a sore shoulder every week since he first injured his rotator cuff four years ago. Has he been listed as questionable or doubtful? No Probable. And he plays. BC probable means he'll most likely play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ced1001 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Another baseless accusation. Good one! Baseless enough that they were warned by the league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesMarauders Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 And Belichick isn't just secretive with the injury report - he flat-out lies about Brady's shoulder. WOW so I guess they faked the surgery that Brady had on it during the offseason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 (edited) The four game suspension he is currently serving. Which is because of HGH? I'd like to see your link to that, because it would be against the CBA for it to be released to you. Rhodes violated the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy. That's the same policy that got Ricky suspended for testing positive for THC. Again, you're full of crap. And, Tom Brady has been on the injury report as probable with a sore shoulder every week since he first injured his rotator cuff four years ago. Has he been listed as questionable or doubtful? No Probable. And he plays. BC probable means he'll most likely play. So, his shoulder hasn't healed in four years? Um, OK. Edited September 14, 2007 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Baseless enough that they were warned by the league? Did the league send out a memo to all 32 teams about it? Did the league fine Tony Dungy $500k and take away draft picks? Did anybody have any concrete evidence at all (like, say, a guy with an unauthorized video camera)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMF Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 This is so much more entertaining than class... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMF Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 This is so much more entertaining than class... I agree! This is making the work day fly by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilwiggum Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Did the league send out a memo to all 32 teams about it? Did the league fine Tony Dungy $500k and take away draft picks? Did anybody have any concrete evidence at all (like, say, a guy with an unauthorized video camera)? This may be besides the point. The Camera was authorized, what he was filming wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 This may be besides the point. The Camera was authorized, what he was filming wasn't. Whammy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 This may be besides the point. The Camera was authorized, what he was filming wasn't. Perhaps I got that confused with the illegal taping at the Packers game last year. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Swerski, I think Seahawks is calling for your head in the other thread! Go at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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