Sgt. Ryan Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 What?Did you just compare Len Bias to this? I can not believe I have to argue this but the Celtics made the pick. We are not talking about a do over we are talking about if Len Bias were never chosen. you said " 1st Round picks are not applied for. They are guaranteed job opportunities. Nothing is guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping King Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 The union does not like 5-6 year deals. They would prefer 4 year deals. More contract renewels and more bonuses paid out through the life of the player. A 5-6 year deal is in the favor of Managment. They may not like the number of years but the value of the difference in salary is quite significant. Anthony Gonzalez 32nd pick 5 years 10.3 million with 5.4 million guaranteed Paul Posluszny 34th pick 4 years 4.75 million with 2.55 million guaranteed Sorry I could not find Alan Branch's contract to get you the next pick but you can see there is a large difference in just two picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I had hoped Goodell would not have messed with the 1st round pick. I think he may cause himself problems from the NFLPA now. If Gene Washington does not head the appeal he should be removed as the head of the NFLPA. This is not a homer opnion on the Pats but more so on the players of the NFL. If you dock the Pats a 1st round pick you have now made the 2008 NFL Draft a major problem. The 1st round would now be 31 picks long and one player would be losing out on a 4-6 year deal with a lot of guaranteed money. Not to mention the slotting of salaries would now be knocked out of the loop. Look how long it took Russell to sign because they could not agree on the slotted money. Now take 1/32 of the round out and you could have a ton of problems getting people signed. The 3rd round pick would not cause much problem as you have compensatory picks added every year to the 3rd round making more than 32 players in that round. Nice try to deflect attention away from the fact that the Patriots are cheaters and any success "achieved" during the entire Bellichick era now has to be looked at with suspicion, but this is a poorly thought out argument. Many NFL drafts do not have 32 players picked in the first round. If a team participates in the supplemental draft, they lose the corresponding pick in the following year's draft. Eight times, teams have forfeited their first round pick the following year in order to get a player in the supplemental draft. So, there have been eight drafts where at least one team did not have a first round pick. It in no way affected salaries, signings, or anything of that nature. Like I said, nice try though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 My personal opinion, the team should not have been penalized with a 1st round pick. Belicheat should have been suspended for 4 games. This is the way discipline is handled for players for abusing alcohol or drugs. Should be the same penalty for the coach abusing the rules. I think the league took it easy on the Pats. Had Belicheat been suspended, and not been allowed any communication what so ever, the team suffers more than losing 1 of 2 1st round picks. The cash involved in walking around money for the team and Belicheat. That is if he didnt spend it all on that married woman he was nailing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboysDiehard Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Belichick fined $500,000, OUCH !! How's he gonna afford his Sunday game day attire ?? Just spewed beer all over my pc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Nice try to deflect attention away from the fact that the Patriots are cheaters and any success "achieved" during the entire Bellichick era now has to be looked at with suspicion, but this is a poorly thought out argument. Many NFL drafts do not have 32 players picked in the first round. If a team participates in the supplemental draft, they lose the corresponding pick in the following year's draft. Eight times, teams have forfeited their first round pick the following year in order to get a player in the supplemental draft. So, there have been eight drafts where at least one team did not have a first round pick. It in no way affected salaries, signings, or anything of that nature. Like I said, nice try though. my point exactly. Supplemental picks are not slotted nearly the same money as those taken in the original draft. There is no guarantee a 1st round pick will even make the team. Im not sure the last time one was cut, but I do recall a 3rd rounder wasted on Maurice Clarett, and that was before he went ape sh1t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhoops Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I think this is fitting and I am glad the punishment came swiftly so as not to drag out speculation and further tarnish the current football season. I had enough of that drawn out stuff with Vick. Regardless if other teams do it, they got caught and need to be made an example of. I agree, glad it's been decided before the weekend game....now we can try to put this behind us. The team/league can learn from the mistakes that were made and hopefully the current and future Pats organization and reclaim their tarnished rep. Must say that I'm really looking forward to Sundays Game....I should be a great one McBoog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I think The Patriots need to have that win taken away from them. Give them a loss and The Jets a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitbull739 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 They are the Patriots. Screw 'em. Cheaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I think The Patriots need to have that win taken away from them. Give them a loss and The Jets a win. What in the hell did the Jets do to deserve a win? Absolutely nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 My personal opinion, the team should not have been penalized with a 1st round pick. Belicheat should have been suspended for 4 games. This is the way discipline is handled for players for abusing alcohol or drugs. Should be the same penalty for the coach abusing the rules. I think the league took it easy on the Pats. Had Belicheat been suspended, and not been allowed any communication what so ever, the team suffers more than losing 1 of 2 1st round picks. The cash involved in walking around money for the team and Belicheat. That is if he didnt spend it all on that married woman he was nailing. Hmmm. The NFL is just like the real world. White collar crime? Buy your way out. Blue collar crime. Do your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Losing a 1st round pick is a very big deal and harsh penalty so let's not down play that. Sure any palyer drafted doesn't guarantee success but it also eliminates one less potential gem the Pats could have acquired in next years draft. The draft pick and financial fine the the team and Belicheck received is a stiff penalty. Anything more would be too over the top IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping King Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 (edited) my point exactly. Supplemental picks are not slotted nearly the same money as those taken in the original draft. There is no guarantee a 1st round pick will even make the team. Im not sure the last time one was cut, but I do recall a 3rd rounder wasted on Maurice Clarett, and that was before he went ape sh1t. No team has used a 1st round pick in the supplemental draft since 1992. So I do not think anyone knows what they would be slotted at now with a salary cap. The fact is that slot is at least filled when the player is drafted in the supplemental draft. Jared Gaither was a 5th round supplemental pick of the Ravens and he received 3 year contract with a $118,000 signing bonus Troy Smith the 5th round pick of the Ravens received a 3 year contract with a $105,000 signing bonus So at least in this instance the contract value of the supplemental pick held its own vs. the actual draft. Edited September 14, 2007 by Sleeping King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I think The Patriots need to have that win taken away from them. Give them a loss and The Jets a win. As a Jets fan, I wouldn't want the league to hand the Jets a win. And several Jets players have echoed those sentiments. It would be cheap. Not as cheap as having to resort to cheating, but cheap. Makes you think though. Bellichick obviously didn't think he could beat the lowly Jets in a fair game, so he resorted to cheating. If they have to cheat to beat the Jets, they were probably cheating when they beat the Chargers last year and when they "won" those Superbowls. I have to believe that Bellichick's record with the Browns (30-34) is more representative of his true coaching ability. Just think, if Bellichick had started cheating when he was in Cleveland, it would be the Browns with three titles right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 As a Jets fan, I wouldn't want the league to hand the Jets a win. And several Jets players have echoed those sentiments. It would be cheap. Not as cheap as having to resort to cheating, but cheap. Makes you think though. Bellichick obviously didn't think he could beat the lowly Jets in a fair game, so he resorted to cheating. If they have to cheat to beat the Jets, they were probably cheating when they beat the Chargers last year and when they "won" those Superbowls. I have to believe that Bellichick's record with the Browns (30-34) is more representative of his true coaching ability. Just think, if Bellichick had started cheating when he was in Cleveland, it would be the Browns with three titles right now. Belichicks reputation is definitely tarnished. That is the problem with getting caught doing this kind of crap. Now he has opened the Pandora's box of doubt over his entire run with the Pats. That is the biggest casualty here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 What's a first round pick to the Patriots really? They are going to have one of the best records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I don't really think it is that big of a deal, what the Patriots did. I'm sure others do stuff as well, to try to get an advantage, but, the fact is, they got caught breaking a rule. I really like the way that Goodell is coming down hard when rules are broken. I basically agree, especially since they've been caught doing this TWICE (that we know of) and ignored the warning after the first incident. I would've taken a 2nd- and 4th-round picks instead, but otherwise I more or less agree with the punishment. Also like the way that Goodell hit Belichick's personal bank account, rather than heaping a more severe punishment on the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbie Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 If Belicheat were black, he never would have been fined....Oh, wait, that was last night's clusterf**k. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 If they make the playoffs, they lose a 2nd and 3rd instead of a first. It's the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 It's the other way around. Right. The Colts would probably have a couple more rings at this point if the Patriots hadn't been cheating in those playoff games. This should end any Brady vs. Manning debate too. I wonder what Brady's career numbers would look like if he actually had to read defenses instead of having the defensive play call radioed to him from the sideline. Probably not nearly as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig devilz Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 first, i'l say hello since this is my first post. just found you guys. i wasnt surfing because of this ridiculous , media driven story. i was looking for solid FF advice which i'm sure i'l find here.... i read this entire thread and Sleeping King makes the most sense and is the most sensible...he puts into words my rational thoughts better than i ever could. that said, i think this whole saga is a soon to be made for tv movie! yup, there are rules. yup, they broke the rules. yup, they should be 'punished' (sounds like grade school). but come on!...the real hypocrites in this are the 98% of the other teams that do the same damn thing in whatever form is ridiculously allowed under NFL rules. binoculars, cameras in the booth or any other structure with "walls and a roof"....what a joke! one thing Belichick is not is DUMB. if you think he knowingly would break the rules and put his team in any kind of jeopardy, you're either a Belichick/Patriot hater or this saga has pulled you out from under your rock. it's now 'Open Season' on the Patriots. so, all you haters out there, get it out of your system. but remember, when you point a finger 3 more are pointing back at you. it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 The Colts would probably have a couple more rings at this point if the Patriots hadn't been cheating in those playoff games. This should end any Brady vs. Manning debate too. I wonder what Brady's career numbers would look like if he actually had to read defenses instead of having the defensive play call radioed to him from the sideline. Probably not nearly as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig devilz Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 ^ all that 'cheating' didn't seem to help in the second half of last years AFC championship game now did it? er, uh wait....are you going to say the tape jammed in the camera?? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 ^all that 'cheating' didn't seem to help in the second half of last years AFC championship game now did it? er, uh wait....are you going to say the tape jammed in the camera?? LOL No, Jim Irsay pumped in artificial noise through the PA system again and it disrupted Brady's communication with Belichick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosGatosEnFuegos Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 One thing I do find a bit of irony in is that Mike Shanahan said this "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter." So it is acceptable if you have binoculars and you watch the defensive hand calls and write them on a piece of paper. You are vilified if you essentially use the same set of binoculars but you happen to have a record button on them instead of writing it on a piece of paper. Yes. Yes! A hundred times yes. An antiquated method of calling plays may be spied upon with antiquated methods of espionage. But if you get a videocamera out for hand signals, it becomes unfair. This is the case in any sport that heavily involves signals. The Red Sox got in trouble for potentially having a camera in center field for spying on signals recently, and EVERYONE knows that everyone in baseball is trying to steal as many signs as possible. It's not the act of stealing signs, it's employing unacceptable methods of stealing. That is the whole f*cking point here. How is this being missed again and again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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