Pats lose 1st round pick

[Vet]

^

all that 'cheating' didn't seem to help in the second half of last years AFC championship game now did it?

 

er, uh wait....are you going to say the tape jammed in the camera??

 

LOL

 

It's possible to cheat and still lose. They were simply outmatched. Imagine how lopsided it would have been if they weren't cheating.

 

Then again, if the Patriots didn't cheat in San Diego the week before, it would have been the Chargers playing the Colts. That would have been a great game to see. As NFL fans, we were cheated out of seeing this match-up. It's a shame.

[LosGatosEnFuegos]

first, i'l say hello since this is my first post. just found you guys.

i wasnt surfing because of this ridiculous , media driven story. i was looking for solid FF advice

which i'm sure i'l find here....

 

i read this entire thread and Sleeping King makes the most sense

and is the most sensible...he puts into words my rational thoughts better than i ever could.

 

that said, i think this whole saga is a soon to be made for tv movie!

 

yup, there are rules. yup, they broke the rules. yup, they should be 'punished' (sounds like grade school).

 

but come on!...the real hypocrites in this are the 98% of the other teams that do the same damn thing in whatever form is ridiculously allowed under NFL rules. binoculars, cameras in the booth or any other structure with "walls and a roof"....what a joke!

 

one thing Belichick is not is DUMB. if you think he knowingly would break the rules and put his team in

any kind of jeopardy, you're either a Belichick/Patriot hater or this saga has pulled you out from

under your rock.

it's now 'Open Season' on the Patriots. so, all you haters out there, get it out of your system.

but remember, when you point a finger 3 more are pointing back at you.

 

it is what it is.

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: pig devilz

 

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· Squeeze me a little harder pig devilz

[pig devilz]

LOL...wait, let me go grab my violin!

 

man, the conclusions people jump to is amazing.

 

please show me HARD EVIDENCE of this apparant cheating in ALL the games, ever played, against the Colts

AND the playoff game against the Chargers last year?

 

come on, get real.

[MikesMarauders]

Funny thing about all this is they where not hiding the camera and Belichick (believe him or not) said it was the way he had understood the rule now if he has been doing this every game for years I believe there would of been more TEAMS complaining about this (I know GB did). All the NFL would have to do is look at tape of the games they have played because they film the field including the sidelines and see what this camera man is doing and see if this has been going on for years or not.

 

Also I was told that there is picture of this guy just holding the camera and having it pointed at the jets sideline and not hiding anything but I have not seen this so I dont know if it is true or not

[Pope Flick]

It's the other way around.

 

 

Which one do they lose? Do they lose their own of San Francisco's or whichever one is higher?

[MikesMarauders]

Which one do they lose? Do they lose their own of San Francisco's or whichever one is higher?

 

 

I would think it would be there own but this is a good question

[Goopster24]

Which one do they lose? Do they lose their own of San Francisco's or whichever one is higher?

 

It says they lose their own.

 

BB should have been suspended for a game or two, maybe more. To dock a first round pick is a little too much IMO.

 

Now the Patriots aren't "cheating", I hope they kick every team's ass and show that they can really play and they have the talent to. What a story that would be.

[Brentastic]

Big deal. Belichick should have been suspended.

 

This makes it clear to me that there are 2 sets of rules. One for Goodells buddies and one for everybody else.

 

Wade Wilson got suspend FIVE games for taking HGH for a medical condition. That had nothing to do with the integrity of the game.

 

Belichick spits in the face of the league after being warned, and he gets virtually no punishment? Draft picks? Big f'n deal. Over half of 1st round draft picks never amount to anything anyway, and the Pats have 2 first rounders next year anyway.

 

I'm calling BS on this one.

 

Goodell is a hypocrite.

Agree 100% - this was his chance, IMO, to show the league that he will be consistent and fair. This punishment proves he is neither.

[WaterMan]

That's why everyone hated playing against Vick. The play was called for a pass but he ran and got 50 yards.

[JaysGoingDown]

Some people are calling for the forfeit, but this seems pretty fair I think. A draft pick has a more lasting effect obviously.

 

 

YESSSSSSS.............I HATE the Patriots. THEY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED!!!!!! NO TEAM is above the law.

[Sleeping King]

It's possible to cheat and still lose. They were simply outmatched. Imagine how lopsided it would have been if they weren't cheating.

 

Then again, if the Patriots didn't cheat in San Diego the week before, it would have been the Chargers playing the Colts. That would have been a great game to see. As NFL fans, we were cheated out of seeing this match-up. It's a shame.

 

They probably would have gone 0-16 last year right? What would the score had been if they did not "cheat" the Jets last week. I'm guessing something like 63-7 Jets. I mean the Hobbs touchdown was the only "legit" TD they had.

 

The Chargers will probably enforce a run rule on the Pats Sunday night. Game will be called in the 2nd quarter at 237-0.

 

War Pennington!!!

[LooGie]

Not sure if this has been touched on, because all these cheater threads get hijacked and flamed, but i have a thought...

 

I think it's safe to say they'll make the playoffs, so, due to the trade, they'll end up with a high first, a second, and a third?

 

the best thing (as far as punishment) would be for them to not make the playoffs, get 2 first round busts, and no 2nd and 3rd round pick.

 

For the record, I dont think it's all that big a deal, but, it is against the rules, and I applaud Goodell for slapping them with those hefty fines (i think that's all that should've been done, really) but i think the loss of the draft picks, are just setup for appearance, as they're not really losing anything.

 

I dont care either way, because I've always hated BB, Brady is a Megan Fox bag hollywood whiner, and all that damn Bruschi press way back when. I'm still pissed about him coming back from his dislocated uterus in like week 14, doing nothing but waddle around the field in women's underwear, and SHARE COMEBACK PLAYER OF THE YEAR WITH S. SMITH. so damn stupid.

 

I truly TRULY hate the pats

 

 

edited for: to say again, i hate the pats. seriously.

Edited September 14, 2007 by LooGie

[The Wolf]

What in the hell did the Jets do to deserve a win? Absolutely nothing.

 

I gotta agree here...we really did not look good enough to make this argument.

[Bronco Billy]

Belichek should have been suspended for a few games for either abject stupidity, mammoth arrogance, or both.

 

Let me get this right: Mangini used to work for Belichek while Belichek was allegedly pulling these shananigans. Mangini moves on to an arch rival team, knows how Belichek willingly flaunts the rules this way to win games, yet Belichek choses to continue cheating in the same manner & expects Mangini to do nothing about it?

 

That demonstrates an IQ low enough to make Sarge look like Einstein by comparison, or an arrogance that makes Sarge look like a blushing timid wall flower, or perhaps both simultaneously. We won't even get into the "apology" he offered publicly yesterday that provides more evidence for the stupidity/arrogance argument. Either way Belichek deserves time off unpaid away from his team. $500,000 means nothing - hell, he'll just take it out of the wardrobe money that he's obviously been stashing away for years.

 

The draft pick(s) loss is a good start, but a multiple game suspension would have been justice. A forfeit of the game would have been entirely appropriate & certainly would have set a precedence that almost assuredly would have ensured no further transgressions by any coack of any team, but there was a fat chance of that happening.

[charty]

Not sure if this has been touched on, because all these cheater threads get hijacked and flamed, but i have a thought...

 

I think it's safe to say they'll make the playoffs, so, due to the trade, they'll end up with a high first, a second, and a third?

 

They also have another 3rd round choice, I think from Baltimore.

Clayton wrote that they got off easy because they had 2 first round, a second round, and 2 third rounders.

The point is they have 2 first rounders because they traded away a first rounder last year, so the first rounder they might lose if they make the playoffs is really theirs.

If it was Cleveland, would they have lost a 2nd because theirs would be a high 2nd? Should the punishment be based on expected results and if a team has extra picks based on good draft day trades over the last couple years?

Or should it just be a case of "this is an offense that deserves the loss of this teams first round pick"?

 

Edit to add:

Maybe the first round pick should go to Seattle seeing the Pats have been carrying that extra first round pick from the Branch deal.

Edited September 14, 2007 by charty

[bigrocks]

Reason No. 251 to hate the Patriots.

[Yukon Cornelius]

 

[Goopster24]

I don't see how people can justify and want the commish to have the Pats forfeit this game. That would set up a horrible precedent and if the wild card race was close near the end, it would only make more of an argument near the end of the season.

 

The draft pick thing will be discussed about for a long time too. I like how someone in this thread said that Tags would have just slapped a couple game suspension and the mess is technically over. Now this will linger with the media and NFL fans a like.

 

I can't wait to go to the Colts vs. Patriots game this year and wear my Moss jersey in the RCA Dome.

[Perchoutofwater]

Overall I think the ruling is pretty fair. At first I though Bill should have also been suspended for 5 games like Wade Wilson as well, because Bill's cheating had a lot more to do with what happened on the field than Wade's "cheating". I think most will agree the Wade Wilson suspension was a knee jerk reaction and horrible decision. That being said, the more I think about it, what good would it do to suspend Bill. He would just set up video conferencing form his house to discuss game planing with his coaches, and they could always drop by Bills house for a working dinner as long as his girlfriend wasn't there. He'd probably just use technology to get around any suspension that was levied on him.

 

One thing I will say is if Bill gets in the HOF before Peter Rose gets in the HOF, I will have lost all respect for the NFL.

[Yukon Cornelius]

One thing I will say is if Bill gets in the HOF before Peter Rose gets in the HOF, I will have lost all respect for the NFL.

 

not even the dame thing

[pig devilz]

there's a lot of theorizing in this thread and on this subject in general...

but has anyone other than the league office, seen what exactly is on the tape (disk)??

(not including the Jets or Patriots)

 

possibly, there was nothing damning on the tape itself and the Comish

penalized Belichick and the Patriots for BLATENTLY breaking the rule of no cameras on the sideline.

especialy after the warning memo and a camera being on the sideline before.

 

in Goodell's statement (i havent seen the entire thing) he did not directly accuse Belichick of stealing signs

or cheating.... and Belichick did not apologize for doing such.

 

this quote stops short, imo, of accusing him of cheating espiecaly since Goodell said

the filming against the Jets did not effect the outcome of the game.

 

"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," commissioner Roger Goodell wrote in a letter to the Patriots.

 

hmmmm...

 

i'm a Patriots fan, but i'm glad Belichick was fined, i think he deserved it.

rules are rules and if broken you need to be held accountable. (no cameras onthe sidelines)

it preserves the integrity of the game.

[SuperCharger]

I disagree with the rule, but it's a rule none the less and the Pats were caught breaking it. I think the whole thing got way more attention then it deserved and was blown out of proportion. The penaly was a tad too stiff I believe, 500K is 12% of BB's salary this year. I personally would be hurting if I got fined for 12% of my annual salary (It's not exactly the same but it gives it more perspective.)

 

Never the less, Sunday Night should be a very emotional and hard fought game. I hope both teams bring it and give us a good show.

[Perchoutofwater]

there's a lot of theorizing in this thread and on this subject in general...

but has anyone other than the league office, seen what exactly is on the tape (disk)??

(not including the Jets or Patriots)

 

possibly, there was nothing damning on the tape itself and the Comish

penalized Belichick and the Patriots for BLATENTLY breaking the rule of no cameras on the sideline.

especialy after the warning memo and a camera being on the sideline before.

 

in Goodell's statement (i havent seen the entire thing) he did not directly accuse Belichick of stealing signs

or cheating.... and Belichick did not apologize for doing such.

 

this quote stops short, imo, of accusing him of cheating espiecaly since Goodell said

the filming against the Jets did not effect the outcome of the game.

 

"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," commissioner Roger Goodell wrote in a letter to the Patriots.

 

hmmmm...

 

i'm a Patriots fan, but i'm glad Belichick was fined, i think he deserved it.

rules are rules and if broken you need to be held accountable. (no cameras onthe sidelines)

it preserves the integrity of the game.

 

Are you really that dense? Do you really thing that Goodell would want to confirm that a coach of one of the most high profile teams in the league was actually cheating? It is Goodells job to protect the NFL. If he came right out and said what Bill did gave the Pats a competitive advantage, and it is already out there that he had done it at least one other time (so most rational people come to the conclusion that he has done it on several occasions) then it would tarnish the league. Goodell is doing damage control, trying to protect the league. It wouldn't surprise me if Goodell didn't specifically tell Bill not to admit to cheating so that this episode doesn't tarnish the game even more than it already has.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Perchoutofwater

[Sox]

The news articles seem to imply the penalties were stiff.

 

I thought Belichick got off light.He makes $4 million a year,so this year he only gets $3.5 million.I hope he has enough left to feed his family.He lost 1/8 of his salary for the year.In comparison Thurman lost all of his salary for two years,and maybe more.Henry loses at least half of his salary for this year.They both lost the money while serving a suspension;Belichick isn't going to be suspended.He will have a first round pick no matter what happens.

 

This amounts to a slap on the wrist.I think it shows Goodell is a shill for the owners.

[gilwiggum]

Let me start off by saying I am a PATS fan (let the booing begin). I think the punishment was fair for a few reasons. The first being it sets a precedent on how future cases should be handled. Second, the PATS should not be punished for having extra 1st and 3rd round picks. If Goodell were to say the PATS lose both 1st round picks, then in the future he'd have to do the same to another team which would not have this luxury. Goodell needed to apply a penalty that could effectively be applied over and over again despite a team's situation. Third, Belichick's fine is substantial. I am not sure how much he makes, but let's say it's $2 million a year. To have to pay 25% of that is real hefty. Imagine if your boss came in right now and said you were to lose 25% of your salary for being on message boards all day? You would think that was pretty significant right.

 

Couple of other points. For all of you who question the PATS superbowl wins, if you go back and watch the tapes, the PATS get crushed in the 2nd half of each game. Obviously defenive signals weren't helping. Also you cannot take away prior achievments for an issue that was caught now. For instance, the Colts don't forfeit their Superbowl because Dominic Rhodes was on steroids.

 

Does anyone else find it comical that everyone steals signals but just because the Patriots use video it's an uproar. Mike Shanahan says he has an idea of most teams defensive signals by the 2nd half. Nick Saban was caught doing it last year. John Madden said it was common practice, but hey everyone draws the line at videotape!

 

My friend had the following thought on knowing a team's signals and I agree:

 

"last time I played organized sports with signals, I was 14 or whatever. We switched signs throughout the year, and we only ever had about 5 practices. These guys practice 4 days a week plus the game. There's nothing stopping anyone from switching signs all the time"