Pats lose 1st round pick

[ced1001]

Present your evidence.

 

I don't need to present evidence. The Dolphins came right out and bragged about it publicly.

 

The Pats didn't say anything other than "We got beat by the better team." Period.

[Vet]

Dolphins came out and said they stole Tom Brady's audible signals last year.....

 

Not against the rules.

 

The PATRIOTS are proven cheaters. The Dolphins, and the other 30 NFL teams, are not.

 

Nice try though.

[ced1001]

Not against the rules.

 

The PATRIOTS are proven cheaters. The Dolphins, and the other 30 NFL teams, are not.

 

Nice try though.

 

You're right. We crossed the line. We got caught. We've been penalized.

 

This is obviously why Tom Brady is 7-1 playing the Jets in the Meadowlands. Again, whatever makes you sleep at night.

[i_am_the_swammi]

While I don't condone what Bellichek did at all in terms of videtaping, and will now always be wondering if the Eagles 3-point loss in the Super Bowl 2 years ago was at all affected by these shenanigans...I think the whole "gamesmanship" of stealing signals is a part of the sport, and has bene for many years. Bellichek took it to a different, illegal level, and got caught. But what he was doing...that is, stealing signals, has been a part of football for decades.

 

Here is the take from the Philadelphia Daily News NFL Beat Writer, Rich Hoffman:

 

Belichick did not do anything that lots and lots of other coaches do - he just did it with a camera. He did not break some solemn code of integrity. What he did was violate a league rule that attempts to regulate the lack of integrity that has been a part of this sport forever.

 

There is a reason that defensive coaches have attempted to block the press-box view of their signaling in recent years, first with a couple of large guys positioned strategically in front of the signals, and now with the same two guys holding towels in the way. There is a reason why some teams employ two guys who signal in plays simultaneously - one with fake signals, one real.

 

It is because they all try to decipher the other team's signals, and they always have. It is not against the rules. It is not considered cheating...by anyone.

 

You are allowed, from the press box or the sideline, to have a guy stand there and watch the signals and write down, "First down . . . hat, belt, chest, fist pump,'' and then match that up with what the defense did and try to figure out what's coming. You just can't use a camera to help you. However the information is compiled, by hand or by video, it is hard to believe that this stuff could be deciphered quickly enough to be of much value during a game. It is easy to see how this might help the next time you played a team, though, if the team were stupid enough to use the same signals.

 

This has been going on forever. I have seen it happen here, with this very franchise; horrors. It was back at the Vet, back when the main press box -which had the sweetest view in the league, along with a leaky ceiling - was right next to the box occupied by the Eagles' coaches. Only a sheet of clear Plexiglas separated the two.

 

I don't remember who was the head coach at the time, but there was an assistant coach with binoculars, and he was looking awfully intently at something between plays and then writing stuff down. He was not bird-watching. It didn't take me long to figure out what he was doing, and it didn't even register at the time.

 

Stealing signs? Of course - except it isn't stealing, not really, not when you do it in front of 70,000 people. Bill Belichick might be arrogant and foolish, but he did not invent this.

[McBoog]

They got off very lightly!

 

The money is a JOKE. Neither the organization or BellICheat are going to really be hurt by this fine.

 

Sooooo, all they lose is a first round pick? BS (And the NFLPA has no say into this. They represent players/individuals, NOT percieved maybe possible, ethereal individuals that may or may not play in the future).

 

Bell-I-Cheat should have been SUSPENDED for the number of games that correspond to his fine as well as the fine. Merriman lost the money and was not allowed to play. So many of you have made the comparison, thought I'd play it the other way. And in his case, there was no team involvement, but the team is still penalized by losing a star player, that never played juiced on the field!

 

How do you penalize an NFL franchise with 1/4 mil? Bus fair! THAT TOO is a f'n joke! Forfeiting the game would have really stung.

 

So, in reality, they lose one future, unidentified player that may or may not have made it in the NFL for whatever reason (blow out a knee in off season WOs, car accident, bust pick, you name it).

 

Personally, the way they came down on Pac-man, Vick and Merriman, I was expecting A LOT more! Maybe there is something to this Blue Collar/White Collar thingy after all!

Edited September 14, 2007 by McBoog

[Bill Swerski]

You're right. We crossed the line. We got caught. We've been penalized.

 

And your reputation has been dragged through the mud. I hope it was worth it.

[Goopster24]

This thread is laughable and some of the comments are too. The Patriots are cheaters, thanks guys, we know. And stop saying other teams haven't been proven yet. You are ignorant if you think teams don't cross the line.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Goopster24

[Vet]

You're right. We crossed the line. We got caught. We've been penalized.

 

This is obviously why Tom Brady is 7-1 playing the Jets in the Meadowlands. Again, whatever makes you sleep at night.

 

 

This has nothing to do with the Jets. Like I've said, there are at least 20 NFL teams out there that could beat the Jets fair and square. I happen to think the Patriots are one of those teams.

 

However, apparently Bill Bellichick disagrees with me. He obviously felt he needed to cheat. So be it.

 

The Jets are not a playoff team this year, an additional loss will only help improve their draft position. Bellichick did the Jets a favor.

 

But, the fact remains that the New England Patriots are cheaters. They cheat. It has been proven, and admitted by the head coach. (After he got caught, obviously.)

 

How many games have been swayed by the New England Patiots cheating? How many point spreads? How many over-unders?

 

Would Tony Dungy have three rings and be considered one of the greatest coaches of all time if Bill Bellichick and the Patriots weren't cheating?

[Vet]

This thread is laughable and some of the comments are too. The Patriots are cheaters, thanks guys, we know. And stop saying other teams haven't been proven yet. You are ignorant if you think otherwise.

 

Present your evidence.

[Goopster24]

This has nothing to do with the Jets. Like I've said, there are at least 20 NFL teams out there that could beat the Jets fair and square. I happen to think the Patriots are one of those teams.

 

However, apparently Bill Bellichick disagrees with me. He obviously felt he needed to cheat. So be it.

 

The Jets are not a playoff team this year, an additional loss will only help improve their draft position. Bellichick did the Jets a favor.

 

But, the fact remains that the New England Patriots are cheaters. They cheat. It has been proven, and admitted by the head coach. (After he got caught, obviously.)

 

How many games have been swayed by the New England Patiots cheating? How many point spreads? How many over-unders?

 

Would Tony Dungy have three rings and be considered one of the greatest coaches of all time if Bill Bellichick and the Patriots weren't cheating?

 

It's all speculation and it isn't worth it. We will never know, just like we will never know how many home runs Barry Bonds should have really it.

[Goopster24]

Present your evidence.

 

Are you a bot?

 

Link

[Vet]

It's all speculation and it isn't worth it. We will never know, just like we will never know how many home runs Barry Bonds should have really it.

 

Barry Bonds has never been caught cheating.

 

Bill Bellichick and the New England Patriots have.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Vet

[Goopster24]

And I know someone is going to point out it says "Legal spying." Ok, thanks. I know. But how is that different?

[Goopster24]

Barry Bonds has never been caught cheating.

 

Bill Bellichick and the Nre England Patriots have.

 

Barry Bonds has admitted to taking steroids in leaked Grand Jury testimony.

 

I am sorry, what are you trying to say again? Because I haven't understood it the 1033812932819 times you have said it. Jesus Christ...

[Sgt. Ryan]

That demonstrates an IQ low enough to make Sarge look like Einstein by comparison, or an arrogance that makes Sarge look like a blushing timid wall flower, or perhaps both simultaneously.

 

[Vet]

Are you a bot?

 

Link

 

Not sure what a "bot" is.

 

Are you somehow suggesting that Bill Bellichick and the New England Patriots are not cheaters?

[Sleeping King]

Not sure what a "bot" is.

 

Are you somehow suggesting that Bill Bellichick and the New England Patriots are not cheaters?

 

A "bot" posts something over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.....etc.

[Goopster24]

Not sure what a "bot" is.

 

Are you somehow suggesting that Bill Bellichick and the New England Patriots are not cheaters?

 

A robot, someone who says the same thing over and over and over and over again.

 

And when did I ever say BB didn't "cheat"? I apologize in advance if I did because that is NOT what I think. I know the facts, I am not stupid, so stop repeating yourself please.

 

Are you also forgetting that Goodell has said that he believes the Patriots received no competitive advantage from what they did? Not saying I believe that, not sure if I do or not, but still, it's coming from the commish's mouth. He said he didn't believe a forfeit was necessary because of that.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Goopster24

[Bill Swerski]

This thread is laughable and some of the comments are too. The Patriots are cheaters, thanks guys, we know. And stop saying other teams haven't been proven yet. You are ignorant if you think teams don't cross the line.

 

Your "well, other teams do it too because other people said so" line is weak. The Pats have gotten caught TWICE over just the past 9 months doing this. They were the reason that Goodell had to send out a memo last year warning about this garbage. If "other teams are cheating as well", then they're not doing it on a level even close to what that Pats have done. Unless, of course, you want to argue that Belichick has been sloppy in his efforts to disguise his actions, which would be completely out of character for him.

[Vet]

A robot, someone who says the same thing over and over and over and over again.

 

And when did I ever say BB didn't "cheat"? Are you also forgetting that Goodell has said that he believes the Patriots received no competitive advantage from what they did? Not saying I believe that, not sure if I do or not, but still, it's coming from the commish's mouth. He said he didn't believe a forfeit was necessary because of that.

 

He said a forfeit of this game (last Sunday vs. the Jets) was not in order. I couldn't agree with him more completely. I think the Patriots could have won this game fair and square. However, they obviously disagreed with me. They decided to cheat. Based on similar complaints lodged by other NFL teams, I believe this is not the frst time the Patriots have cheated.

[Perchoutofwater]

Are you also forgetting that Goodell has said that he believes the Patriots received no competitive advantage from what they did? Not saying I believe that, not sure if I do or not, but still, it's coming from the commish's mouth. He said he didn't believe a forfeit was necessary because of that.

 

Look at where Goodell is coming from. If he did come out and say a competitive advantage was gained, then it would really tarnish the league and bring into question at least the GB game last year where the same guy was kicked out for doing the same thing, and probably all of the Pats games under BB. It would tarnish the league. Goodell is trying his best to do damage control, while at the same time punishing the Pats and BB. Think about it, Goodell says no competitive advantage was gained, but look at how many of us, myself included are starting to question the Pats accomplishments, that would be magnified 10 times if Goodell came out and said there was a competitive advantage gained. Goodell is trying to do what is best for the league, and trying to keep this from going any farther.

[Goopster24]

Your "well, other teams do it too because other people said so" line is weak. The Pats have gotten caught TWICE over just the past 9 months doing this. They were the reason that Goodell had to send out a memo last year warning about this garbage. If "other teams are cheating as well", then they're not doing it on a level even close to what that Pats have done. Unless, of course, you want to argue that Belichick has been sloppy in his efforts to disguise his actions, which would be completely out of character for him.

 

How is that weak? I feel like there are two different arguments going on here.

 

First of all, other players have said they are speculating that the Patriots stole signals against them, in the same manner they were PROVED to be doing against the Jets. Is that weak for them to say that or for me to believe them? It is SPECULATION and that is how I view it.

 

Is it weak for me to believe that other teams do this when coaches have said this is common practice in the league? How is that weak of me?

 

So are you saying you truly don't believe any other teams steal signals, or more specifically "hurt the integrity of the game"? Because I think that is naive thinking, but that is just my view I guess.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Goopster24

[Goopster24]

Look at where Goodell is coming from. If he did come out and say a competitive advantage was gained, then it would really tarnish the league and bring into question at least the GB game last year where the same guy was kicked out for doing the same thing, and probably all of the Pats games under BB. It would tarnish the league. Goodell is trying his best to do damage control, while at the same time punishing the Pats and BB. Think about it, Goodell says no competitive advantage was gained, but look at how many of us, myself included are starting to question the Pats accomplishments, that would be magnified 10 times if Goodell came out and said there was a competitive advantage gained. Goodell is trying to do what is best for the league, and trying to keep this from going any farther.

 

I see what you are saying but I feel Goodell should have come out and say that if he believed it. People are already questioning it, it doesn't matter.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Goopster24

[The Wolf]

How is that weak? I feel like there are two different arguments going on here.

 

First of all, other players have said they are speculating that the Patriots stole signals against them, in the same manner they were PROVED to be doing against the Jets. Is that weak for them to say that or for me to believe them? It is SPECULATION and that is how I view it.

 

Is it weak for me to believe that other teams do this when coaches have said this is common practice in the league? How is that weak of me?

 

So are you saying you truly don't believe any other teams steal signals, or more specifically "hurt the integrity of the game"? Because I think that is naive thinking.

 

Goop, where did you read/hear that other coaches have said this? Do you mean they said that stealing signals was common practice or videotaping signals was common practice?

 

I know that sign/signal stealing is common in every sport but haven't read/heard anything about other NFL teams using a video camera

[Goopster24]

And another thing to think about: People are obviously speculating that the Patriots have done this for a long time. And those same people are speculating that other teams don't do this or not on the same level. What does that say about the NFL looking out for these things? If the Patriots were doing this for a while, then obviously it was pretty easy for them to do it.