dabuffbills Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3108321 EW YORK -- C.C. Sabathia won the AL Cy Young Award on Tuesday, beating out several worthy contenders by a comfortable margin and becoming the first Cleveland pitcher in 35 years to earn the honor. The Indians ace received 19 of 28 first-place votes and finished with 119 points in balloting by the Baseball Writers' Association of America. Boston's Josh Beckett was second with eight first-place votes and 86 points, while John Lackey of the Los Angeles Angels got the other first-place vote and came in third. The Indians' Fausto Carmona was fourth. Sabathia went 19-7 with a 3.21 ERA and 209 strikeouts, pitching a major league-high 241 innings. Beckett (20-7) became the only big league pitcher to win 20 games since 2005, compiling a 3.27 ERA in 200 2-3 innings. Lackey led the AL in ERA at 3.01, going 19-9 and tossing 224 innings. Voting took place before the postseason, when Sabathia struggled while Beckett pitched the Red Sox to a World Series championship with a string of dominant outings. The only other Cleveland pitcher to win the award was Hall of Famer Gaylord Perry in 1972. The 6-foot-7, 290-pound left-hander is the first black pitcher to win a Cy Young Award since Dwight Gooden of the New York Mets in 1985 -- and the first in the AL since Oakland's Vida Blue in 1971. While the top four candidates had similar statistics, Sabathia's stamina apparently set him apart. After being sidelined by injuries the previous two seasons, Sabathia stayed healthy all year and made 34 starts to Beckett's 30. That helped account for their wide gap in innings pitched. The 27-year-old Sabathia also walked only 37 batters, giving him a remarkable strikeout-to-walk ratio that took pressure off his defense all season. Beckett had 194 strikeouts and 40 walks. If voting had included their results in October, the outcome might have been different. Beckett beat Sabathia twice in the AL Championship Series and went 4-0 with a 1.20 ERA in four postseason starts, striking out 35 and walking two. Sabathia was 1-2 with an 8.80 ERA in three playoff outings. Sabathia is entering the final season of his contract with the Indians, who are preparing to offer the lefty a long-term deal this winter. Cleveland general manager Mark Shapiro would like to have his ace locked up before spring training starts in February. "My hope and expectation would be that it's not an issue when we get to spring training," Shapiro said recently. "I don't believe in black and whites. But it is something we'd like to address, one way or another, prior to getting to spring training." Sabathia, picked by Cleveland in the first round of the 1998 draft, has made it clear he'd like to stay with the Indians -- for the right price. "There has not been anyone any stronger about wanting to stay here, at any juncture," Shapiro said. "After our worst days and after our best days, he's been extremely consistent, extremely strong about wanting to remain a part of this team and part of this community." Beckett gets $100,000 for finishing second, and his 2010 base salary increases $100,000 to $12.1 million. Lackey earns $75,000 for coming in third, and his 2009 base salary goes up $500,000 to $10 million. Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Should have been Beckett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabuffbills Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 Should have been Beckett. yup, Beckett was the best pitcher throughout the season and dominated the Indians, as well as everyone else in the playoffs, while Sabathia got lit up by the Red Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 yup, Beckett was the best pitcher throughout the season and dominated the Indians, as well as everyone else in the playoffs, while Sabathia got lit up by the Red Sox As we all know, voting takes place before the playoffs. So playoff performance is irrelevant to the Cy Young discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 As we all know, voting takes place before the playoffs. So playoff performance is irrelevant to the Cy Young discussion. Agreed...but I still think it should have been Beckett I understand the differences in the numbers, but in watching games pitched by both pitchers, IMO Beckett was just more dominant. Sabathia pitched well and consistently, but I never saw him make hitters look foolish the way Beckett would on a regular basis. JMO....not saying that there is anything wrong with Sabathia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Agreed...but I still think it should have been Beckett I understand the differences in the numbers, but in watching games pitched by both pitchers, IMO Beckett was just more dominant. Sabathia pitched well and consistently, but I never saw him make hitters look foolish the way Beckett would on a regular basis. JMO....not saying that there is anything wrong with Sabathia... Not alot of difference between their results this year, they both had great years. One thing that stuck out at me was their record vs good and bad teams. If you look at the AL this year, there were 4 teams that finished at least 10 games under .500. Baltimore, Tampa, Chicago, and Kansas City. Sabathia was 5-2 (.714) vs Baltimore, Tampa, KC, and CWS, 14-5 (.737) vs the rest of the league. Beckett was 8-1 (.889) vs Baltimore, KC, Tampa, and CWS, 12-6 (.667) vs the rest of the league. Sabathia was just as good against the top teams as against the meatballs. Another amazing stat, Sabathia was 4-0 head to head vs Johan Santana this summer. Before this season, no TEAM had ever beaten Santana more than once in a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Should have been Beckett. Despite your obvious homerism, I agree. But not by much. As we all know, voting takes place before the playoffs. So playoff performance is irrelevant to the Cy Young discussion. If it took place afterwards, there's no way in hell that CC would've won it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Despite your obvious homerism, I agree. But not by much.If it took place afterwards, there's no way in hell that CC would've won it. In this case, it's not homerism. As I said before, watching both pitchers on multiple occasions, when I saw Beckett pitch he just made hitters look bad. I am not taking anything away from Sabathia. Sabathia's numbers were slightly better except for wins. It's more about what I saw watching the games than the numbers. That's why I made the statement. And I think they were both better than Lackey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Despite your obvious homerism, I agree. But not by much.If it took place afterwards, there's no way in hell that CC would've won it. As a regular season award - I think CC deserved it - he had better numbers. I think the strikeouts, and extra 40 innings he threw over Beckett put him over the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping King Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Honestly it really doesn't matter much. I would have voted for Beckett but Sabathia had an excellent season too. That said no one is going to be confused about who was the best pitcher this season. Beckett proved that point in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Honestly it really doesn't matter much. I would have voted for Beckett but Sabathia had an excellent season too. That said no one is going to be confused about who was the best pitcher this season. Beckett proved that point in the playoffs. exactly...i mean sabathia threw 40 more innings in the regular season...which you could equate to five 8 inning starts....but that also most likely helped contribute to his flame out...and this is a criticism ive heard about eric wedge for quite some time...he rides his starters... its fine..ill take my world title...and everybody knows who the best pitcher in baseball is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 its fine..ill take my world title...and everybody knows who the best pitcher in baseball is Yep. Johann Santana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Yep. Johann Santana. lol...ok..if you say so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) lol...ok..if you say so What argument can you make that another pitcher is better. Fire away anytime Be prepared to address the last 4 seasons or as well as current age and prospects for the future EDIT: If by your comment you meant to talk about what pitcher had the best season in 2007, that's a different discussion than who is the best pitcher in the game Edited November 14, 2007 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Jake Peavy is head and shoulders better than Beckett as well. Homerism at its finest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Jake Peavy is head and shoulders better than Beckett as well. Homerism at its finest. Head and Shoulders?? How were they in late season pressure situations? Peavy got slapped around in the play-in game, and Beckett was lights out over and over again in high pressure games. Head and Shoulders is a little strong, even to the homer-ist of Padres homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) Head and Shoulders?? How were they in late season pressure situations? Peavy got slapped around in the play-in game, and Beckett was lights out over and over again in high pressure games. Head and Shoulders is a little strong, even to the homer-ist of Padres homers. Are you really comparing 1 outing to a full season of accomplishments. Last I checked they dont give season awards, for one game. The San Diego Padres ace was a unanimous winner of the NL Cy Young Award on Thursday after leading the league in wins, ERA and strikeouts -- pitching's version of a Triple Crown. Beckett was roughed around plenty, I owned him on my fantasy team. Id have dealt him for Peavy in a second. Its head and shoulder difference, and that is giving Beckett more credit than he deserves. Beckett G --------IP --------H------R-----HR-----BB-----SO----W----L----WHIP---BAA---ERA 30----- 200.2-----189----76----17-----40-----194--- 20---7-----1.14---.245----3.27 Peavy G--------- IP-------- H----- R----HR---- BB----- SO---- W---- L--- WHIP--- BAA--- ERA 34-------223.1----169-----67--- 13---- 68-----240-----19---- 6---1.06----.208---- 2.54 Peavy is more durable, making 4 more starts, giving up 20 less hits, 9 less run, in 23 more ings. Peavy gave up fewer HR's, had less loses, 46 more K's to average well over 1 K per ing pitched, better whip, lower opponents BA, and .75 a run lower ERA. Beckett had 1 more win, playing for a more explosive offense, and fewer walks. Those are the only stats he was better than Peavy. Beckett gave up 4 runs or more 7 times, almost 1/4 of his starts Peavy gave up 4 or more runs 4 times, one of which came in a play in game, after his reg season was over. This isnt even close, and if Peavy were in the AL, he would have been the unanimous Cy Young there too. Edited November 16, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 What argument can you make that another pitcher is better. Fire away anytime Be prepared to address the last 4 seasons or as well as current age and prospects for the future EDIT: If by your comment you meant to talk about what pitcher had the best season in 2007, that's a different discussion than who is the best pitcher in the game Absolutely. Hats off to Beckett for an outstanding year, but he doesn't even begin to compare to Santana in terms of consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Absolutely. Hats off to Beckett for an outstanding year, but he doesn't even begin to compare to Santana in terms of consistency. lolol...at some guy named sgt ryan basing his opinion on who hed rather have had in a fantasy league last year...peavy is nice...to say hes head and shoulders above beckett completely follows your protocol for making assinine comments...especially in regards to people who play their respective sports in the new england area i agree with caveman nick and swerski...on the consistency point...however...basically if you have to pick one guy in the league to put on the hill to win you one game...you are picking beckett...that is pretty clear....and to me that is how you decide the best pitcher in the game right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Beckett is #1 for one game in the playoffs no doubt. BUT Santana is the best pitcher in baseball period. Peavy is in the mix- but as nice as yer numbers are Private Ryan- you just can't compare AL vs NL - apples and oranges. Peavy would be looking at an ERA a full run higher in the AL with less K's - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Beckett is #1 for one game in the playoffs no doubt. BUT Santana is the best pitcher in baseball period. Peavy is in the mix- but as nice as yer numbers are Private Ryan- you just can't compare AL vs NL - apples and oranges. Peavy would be looking at an ERA a full run higher in the AL with less K's - I agree that you obviously can't compare AL & NL pitching stats. But just for fun, I went through Peavy's box scores to try to find out how many times he struck out the pitcher. Now you can't tell for sure (from just the box score), because sometimes the opposing pitcher may have struck out against a Padre reliever. But in Peavy's 33 starts, the opposing pitchers struck out 28 times. Peavy had 240 K so, dividing by 9 spots in the order, each spot should have struck out 26.7 times. Peavy actually made 34 starts but one was in an AL park so the pitchers did not bat. Interesting things I noticed while checking this (many of these things I already knew to some extent). Relief pitchers almost never bat. Pinch hitters strike out alot also, should not be surprising as they are not good enough batters to be starting (in most cases). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Beckett is #1 for one game in the playoffs no doubt. BUT Santana is the best pitcher in baseball period. Peavy is in the mix- but as nice as yer numbers are Private Ryan- you just can't compare AL vs NL - apples and oranges. Peavy would be looking at an ERA a full run higher in the AL with less K's - I agree 100%, Santanna is the best pitcher in baseball, and Liarano may be 2nd best. Id put Peavy ahead of Beckett was my point. And those are not my numbers, those are Peavy and Becketts numbers. I just posted them. Completely disagree on the ERA a full run higher in the AL with less K's. There are plenty of poor hitting teams in the AL as well, to mop up Ks. Beckett got hot at the right time, no doubt, and I love this guy. Hoped Texas had gave what FLA wanted to get him, instead of trying to squeeze the the Marlins and not get him. But Im not ready to call him the games best SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 lolol...at some guy named sgt ryan basing his opinion on who hed rather have had in a fantasy league last year...peavy is nice...to say hes head and shoulders above beckett completely follows your protocol for making assinine comments...especially in regards to people who play their respective sports in the new england area i agree with caveman nick and swerski...on the consistency point...however...basically if you have to pick one guy in the league to put on the hill to win you one game...you are picking beckett...that is pretty clear....and to me that is how you decide the best pitcher in the game right now What is it with you, Seriously. Does everything revolve around NE with you. Geez, this is a conversation about who deserved the Cy Young, and then turned into who is the best pitcher. Someone brings stats, logic, and proof you are wrong, then its a bias NE thing with you. Lets be honest about one thing, I could care less about NE. Just because I punk the Homers ignorance, who quite frankly football wise are as fair weather fans as there are in the country, doesnt mean I have a vendetta against Boston. I was on this site well before the start of this decade, and there wasnt a one of you talking pats football back then. Now, it Nick, you, SK, Pigs feat, Ugly Tuna and many more spewing crap all over this site. Take a trip back memory lane, dallas sucked but their fans were here in full force. BTW, The best thing about Boston, is Boston Legal , tuesday nights on ABC. I love that show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) i agree with caveman nick and swerski...on the consistency point...however...basically if you have to pick one guy in the league to put on the hill to win you one game...you are picking beckett...that is pretty clear....and to me that is how you decide the best pitcher in the game right now For one game, I might agree. But that's not how baseball works. Consistency/durability is enormous when it comes to pitchers. Using one of my own homer faves, I'd much rather give a four-year deal to Mark Buehrle than a more-dominant-but-injury-prone guy like Jason Schmidt. Edited November 16, 2007 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Now, it Nick, you, SK, Pigs feat, Ugly Tuna and many more spewing crap all over this site. Oh, the irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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