Pope Flick Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 anybody found a page number with a list of the players in the PDF? I don't think it's there. So much the better. Each player is named, and then each name is backed up with at least several pages of evidence that backs up their inclusion. There's no due process at work here, but the "where there's smoke there's fire' thing sure sounds solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig devilz Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 thanks. after doing a Search, for Jason Varitek, the Search of the PDF was 0 results. phew.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 thanks.after doing a Search, for Jason Varitek, the Search of the PDF was 0 results. phew.... This is the list, apparently: Lenny Dykstra David Segui Larry Bigbie Brian Roberts Jack Cust Tim Laker Josias Manzanillo Todd Hundley Mark Carreon Hal Morris Matt Franco Rondell White Roger Clemens Andy Pettitte Chuck Knoblauch Jason Grimsley Gregg Zaun David Justice F.P. Santangelo Glenallen Hill Mo Vaughn Denny Neagle Ron Villone Ryan Franklin Chris Donnels Todd Williams Phil Hiatt Todd Pratt Kevin Young Mike Lansing Cody McKay Kent Mercker Adam Piatt Miguel Tejada Jason Christiansen Mike Stanton Stephen Randolph Jerry Hairston Paul Lo Duca Adam Riggs Bart Miadich Fernando Vina Kevin Brown Eric Gagne Mike Bell Matt Herges Gary Bennett, Jr. Jim Parque Brendan Donnelly Chad Allen Jeff Williams Howie Clark Nook Logan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I just skimmed the whole document. Kinda meh... Dave Justice and Paul Lo Duca are the most surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) So maybe 10 or 11 of them are interesting - most I've never heard of.... Edit: and those like Bonds that had a different (private) source somehow look like they're innocent for not showing up here. Good for them.... Edited December 13, 2007 by Coffeeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Edit: and those like Bonds that had a different (private) source somehow look like they're innocent for not showing up here. Good for them.... Half the friggin document's about Bonds, Balco et.al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyalboyd Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Of course in theory what you are saying is true but if you think public scorn is going to be the same for Guillermo Mota as it is for the man that broke the most sacred record in baseball you are sadly mistaken..Again . I see where you are going with this but you are not thinking in reality.. Why is that. Isn't cheating cheating. If its not whats the fuss about the steriods. Everyone needs to be treated the same period if you did Mr. Bonds that way. Just another case of a waste of time and money if something isn't done the same across the board. Otherwise tell the kids that do steriods don't worry about it. Your special you want suffer as bad as the rest if your caught. So go ahead and do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) why would someone write out a CHECK for ILLEGAL STEROIDS(Drugs)? Edited December 13, 2007 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 ICDHO, this report means nothing. We all know illegal steroids have been a huge part of the game. This stuff goes way back in different forms. Heck, they were using greenies back in the old days. Ho Hum, business as usual for MLB. Don't care either way at this point. Athletes have been doing this in all sports for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCharger Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 why would someone write out a CHECK for ILLEGAL STEROIDS(Drugs)? My drug dealer takes VISA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyalboyd Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 ICDHO, this report means nothing. We all know illegal steroids have been a huge part of the game. This stuff goes way back in different forms. Heck, they were using greenies back in the old days. Ho Hum, business as usual for MLB. Don't care either way at this point. Athletes have been doing this in all sports for a long time. I totally agree with you. The only thing that I hate is that they act like Mr. Bonds was the only one in the world doing it. Trying to make an example out of him. I just want to see now what they will do. Plus what this does to baseball this season. Because in reality some people may not return to the stands to watch games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 My drug dealer takes VISA. Does he swipe your card down a crack whore's ass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I totally agree with you. The only thing that I hate is that they act like Mr. Bonds was the only one in the world doing it. Trying to make an example out of him. I just want to see now what they will do. Plus what this does to baseball this season. Because in reality some people may not return to the stands to watch games. Bonds just broke the most sacred record in baseball ...ofcourse he was the poster boy for this ...a record like that attracts too much attention and is too important to be tainted ..so Bonds has to be the biggest example (made ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) Why is that. Isn't cheating cheating. If its not whats the fuss about the steriods. Everyone needs to be treated the same period if you did Mr. Bonds that way. Just another case of a waste of time and money if something isn't done the same across the board. Otherwise tell the kids that do steriods don't worry about it. Your special you want suffer as bad as the rest if your caught. So go ahead and do it. There has been no official * put next to Bonds record so we are speaking now of public opinion..People are going to pay more attention to Bonds then these no names because of his single season HR record and all time record..I dont know what kind of * you expect to put next to Josias Manzanillo. Do you want to take away a double he hit in Pawtucket ? I agree that cheating is cheating but why waste your breath and say that everyone here is going to be looked at evenly. Stealing is stealing but if I take a candy bar I am not going to be dealt with the same as if I take a Cadillac. Time will tell how these guys are dealt with ..Access to the hall of fame ..Revoking records..Who knows. but Bonds is the poster boy for Roids and this list wont change that..McGuire is a close 2nd Edited December 13, 2007 by whomper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 There has been no official * put next to Bonds record so we are speaking now of public opinion..People are going to pay more attention to Bonds then these no names because of his single season HR record and all time record..I dont know what kind of * you expect to put next to Josias Manzanillo. Do you want to take away a double he hit in Pawtucket ? I agree that cheating is cheating but why waste your breath and say that everyone here is going to be looked at evenly. Stealing is stealing but if I take a candy bar I am not going to be dealt with the same as if I take a Cadillac. Time will tell how these guys are dealt with ..Access to the hall of fame ..Revoking records..Who knows. but Bonds is the poster boy for Roids and this list wont change that..McGuire is a close 2nd well, the big loser here is clemens IMO. his statistical achievements are just as jaw-dropping as bonds', and should now be every bit as tainted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 well, the big loser here is clemens IMO. his statistical achievements are just as jaw-dropping as bonds', and should now be every bit as tainted. I agree and its sort of my point..Clemens is up there with Bonds as far as accomplishments and I think that is the scale these guys are going to be judged on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) well, the big loser here is clemens IMO. his statistical achievements are just as jaw-dropping as bonds', and should now be every bit as tainted. You seem surprised that he's on the list. Must not be a Cowherd radio fan - he's been saying this for a long time. So now what - does this answer all the questions about who's records should contain an *, or not? I'd say no, since it couldn't possibly have captured all the potential guilty parties. So either let 'em all into the HOF, or keep everyone out since the late 1980's, just to be safe. Good luck with that... Edited December 13, 2007 by Coffeeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 well, the big loser here is clemens IMO. his statistical achievements are just as jaw-dropping as bonds', and should now be every bit as tainted. In simply skimming the section on him, I think you're right. Basically, the timeline has him coming out of Boston clea, then taking them once he was in Toronto. He went from back to back 10 win seasons, to back to back 20 wins and CY's. This really taints his hall of fame claim, and makes the accomplishments of one Greg Maddux all the more impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 You seem surprised that he's on the list. Must not be a Cowherd radio fan - he's been saying this for a long time. not surprised clemens took steroids, but a little surprised at how strong and thorough the case against him appears to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 This is the list, apparently: Lenny Dykstra David Segui Larry Bigbie Brian Roberts Jack Cust Tim Laker Josias Manzanillo Todd Hundley Mark Carreon Hal Morris Matt Franco Rondell White Roger Clemens Andy Pettitte Chuck Knoblauch Jason Grimsley Gregg Zaun David Justice F.P. Santangelo Glenallen Hill Mo Vaughn Denny Neagle Ron Villone Ryan Franklin Chris Donnels Todd Williams Phil Hiatt Todd Pratt Kevin Young Mike Lansing Cody McKay Kent Mercker Adam Piatt Miguel Tejada Jason Christiansen Mike Stanton Stephen Randolph Jerry Hairston Paul Lo Duca Adam Riggs Bart Miadich Fernando Vina Kevin Brown Eric Gagne Mike Bell Matt Herges Gary Bennett, Jr. Jim Parque Brendan Donnelly Chad Allen Jeff Williams Howie Clark Nook Logan How accurate could this list be if McGuire Sosa Bonds and Giambi arent on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 How accurate could this list be if McGuire Sosa Bonds and Giambi arent on it Half the report is about Bonds and the links to Balco, there's a substantial section on McGwire and the finding of andro in his locker.This was a summary list compiled from the latter half of the report that broke down why they were listed. Sosa doesn't appear because there's no available evidence to tie him to anything: no links to BALCO, no failed tests, no reporters finding andro in his locker. Pretty simple. Does it mean he didn't do them? Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 How accurate could this list be if McGuire Sosa Bonds and Giambi arent on it apparently there was a list with them on it and this is supposed to be the "real" one... I smell payoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Live Streaming Q&A with Selig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 So, why does Congress get involved in stuff like this? Seems like a waste of taxpayer money to me. Shouldn't this be strictly a MLB issue? If the League doesn't want to allow steroids or HGH, so be it... but I don't want my Congressman or Senator to get invovled at any point in a sports related ruling. Am I wrong about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) So, why does Congress get involved in stuff like this? Seems like a waste of taxpayer money to me. Shouldn't this be strictly a MLB issue? If the League doesn't want to allow steroids or HGH, so be it... but I don't want my Congressman or Senator to get invovled at any point in a sports related ruling. Am I wrong about that? i think it might have something to do with the illegal steroid distribution and such....meaning MLB is just a part of the bigger picture edit: what i mean to say is that they are going after MLB by acting like they are really concerned with drug trafficking Edited December 13, 2007 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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