Housing addition - Is this smart, how do I start/estimate

[AtomicCEO]

This may be rambling. The specific questions I'm asking are numbered and bolded if anyone is knowledgeable in an applicable field. Thanks in advance.

 

So the wife and I are outgrowing our house. Specifically, we need:

- Larger family room

- 3rd bedroom

 

We've been looking around our neighborhood, which we like a lot, for a slightly bigger place. It would probably be about 20-40K more than the house we currently have (purchased for 187K).

 

But, selling and buying another place means we have to deal with:

- Selling our house in a down market

- Closing costs

- Realtor fees ($15K?)

- Higher mortgage interest rate (currently we have a good one)

- Moving

 

So, we're thinking that the Muck play here is to price out an addition for our current house. We have an expansive yard which would not suffer for adding a room onto the back, and we could put a master suite on top of it which would be 6 steps away from the other 2 bedrooms.

 

We could take advantage of low interest rates to get an equity loan to do it and increase the value of our home, which will now be an adequate size for our family for the next 18 years, when presumably, the market will be better.

 

1. Is this foolish logic? Is construction more expensive than an upgrade? Financially, does this seem smart?

 

2. How much would a project like this cost? I'm estimating a 30x20 room on the bottom floor off the back of the house, and a master suite on top with a bathroom and lots of storage. In the process, we will probably have to replace the roof.

 

3. What's the first step? Talk to an architect? How much does that cost?

 

4. How do I find a contractor who will do good work?

[AtomicCEO]

Oh, and before anyone mentions it, this addition would not put us as the nicest house in the neighborhood. There are plenty of 3 and 4 bedroom houses on my street. Some of the houses like mine have already added family rooms, or at least large enclosed patios onto the back.

[AtomicCEO]

I'm estimating a 30x20 room on the bottom floor off the back of the house

 

Also, that estimate may be high. I just want enough room for a couple couches around the entertainment center, and a drum set. Plus a bunch of closets.

[Egret]

It was about two years ago when we were at this point. We needed a place where our son could play without making our whole house look like Toys R Us. We had the realtor over who sold us the house. She advised us that the market was shaping up to be bad and that it was not a good to sell/buy. She knew that we loved the house and probably more importantly the neighborhood.

 

She told us to finish off our basement. Of course, coincidently her husband finished off basements. We had already looked at a few local contractors. We looked at a couple examples of his work, and his quote was way below the others. She wasn't blowing smoke when she said that he'd give us a good deal. Of course he also took his time finishing it, but we didn't really care at the price we paid.

 

We love the basement. It has more than enough space for toys, computer & desk, couches, and my tv & games. I don't know how much value it adds to the home. I don't really care about that, we get a ton of enjoyment from it.

[Chavez]

Atomic keeps the kidnapped schoolgirls in the basement.

[montster]

Atomic keeps the kidnapped schoolgirls in the basement.

 

it puts the lotion on its skin.

[AtomicCEO]

My house does not have a basement. Nor does it have an attic. Hence the frequent mentioning of "storage" being included in the design.

[Egret]

My house does not have a basement. Nor does it have an attic. Hence the frequent mentioning of "storage" being included in the design.

We only finished off about 1/2 of our basement. The rest of it is storage, furnace, water heater, etc. Taking storage into account is a good idea. You can also build shelving into the plans for the room. Here's part of our room with some storage bins in the back. You can tell your wife that having a flat screen in the room also saves a ton of room.

 

My aunt added a hugh family room to her house when many moons ago. I'm not sure on pricing, but it became the new center of the house. Every house they've lived in since has had a hugh living room area. You'll need to talk with your architect/ builder about how to incorporate storage into a separate room.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Egret

[rocknrobn26]

1. Is this foolish logic? Is construction more expensive than an upgrade? Financially, does this seem smart? NO/?/YES depending.......

 

2. How much would a project like this cost? I'm estimating a 30x20 room on the bottom floor off the back of the house, and a master suite on top with a bathroom and lots of storage. In the process, we will probably have to replace the roof. $150-$200/sf. $4-$5/sf roof (tear-off), but understand those #'s can vary +/- 30% or more.

 

3. What's the first step? Talk to an architect? How much does that cost? A good builder can do the whole thing and probably ballpark an overall cost prior to "nailing down" specifics, but if you can make your own preliminary drawings (there are a quite a few cheap, but adequate drawing progs out there other than AutoCad), preferably on a copy of your plat, you could run it by the city inspector to see what problems may alter your wishes.

 

4. How do I find a contractor who will do good work? That's the tough one, but here again, a city inspector can at least give you some names of who is licensed in your town.

 

 

We wanted to do the same thing 18 years ago. Add a BR and FR 400 sf total, but my lot was too small and after bringing the prelim plans to the city inspector and having him chop it all up, I gave up and bought another house. Some other considerations:

 

1) Will your current furnace/AC be adequate for the extra square footage?

2) No additional Bath room? Cost wouldn't be that much more and extra baths raise value w/ payback fast.

3) Will you need to upgrade the electrical? Many towns require you to bring your whole house up to code w/ a major renovation remodel, so if you don't have 200 amp service add that to your cost.

4) The prices I quoted as I said are very variable and depending on how fancy you wanted to get w/ materials could move it upward. P{lus the rage widely by geographic location. The numbers I gave are about right for Chi, not sure about CO.

5) Just a couple of links that may help: (there are a ton on the internets)

http://www.contractors.com/h/info/resources.html

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/stories/Detailed/268.shtml

Edited April 20, 2008 by rocknrobn26

[Perchoutofwater]

It is hard to give you a guess on how expensive the addition will be, without knowing how you are going to finish it out. Also, the 2nd floor will be cheaper than the first floor per square foot. You are looking at 600 square foot living room (which is pretty big), is the master suite going to be the same size? Are you going to have a separate shower and tub? Like I said, without knowing how nicely you want it finished out, how many windows, what type of exterior veneer, what type of electrical and plumbing fixtures, etc.... it is impossible to give you an accurate estimate. More than likely you the cheapest you could get it done would be $60 per square foot. That lower floor is 600 square feet so that's $36,000, assuming you have the same footage on the master suite, that's another $36,000, so you are looking at best case scenario of $72,000. More than likely by the time your wife gets finished picking out wall covering, floor covering, and fixtures, your probably closer to $110,000. So if you can find a house in your neighborhood for 40k more that what your house is worth now, you'd be better off buying the existing house, and selling yours.

[Savage Beatings]

4. Go to Angie's List to find a contractor http://www.angieslist.com/AngiesList/

[rocknrobn26]

More than likely you the cheapest you could get it done would be $60 per square foot.

 

Wow!!! When I was pricing this out 18 years ago, the estimates I got and friends I talked to who had it done it was $75-$100/sf.

In this area:

Plumbers get $135/hour

Electricians get $125/hour (though I found a licensed retired guy who ONLY charges $100/hour

Handy Men want $50-$60/hour

Remodeling a bath keeping only the wall board (~6'x8') is ~$8K. ($166/sf) Granted, an addition has less tear out.

 

I guess it's what I said earlier.......prices vary by locale. Chi will be much more than Texas, but not sure about CO.

[Perchoutofwater]

Wow!!! When I was pricing this out 18 years ago, the estimates I got and friends I talked to who had it done it was $75-$100/sf.

In this area:

Plumbers get $135/hour

Electricians get $125/hour (though I found a licensed retired guy who ONLY charges $100/hour

Handy Men want $50-$60/hour

Remodeling a bath keeping only the wall board (~6'x8') is ~$8K. ($166/sf) Granted, an addition has less tear out.

 

I guess it's what I said earlier.......prices vary by locale. Chi will be much more than Texas, but not sure about CO.

 

According to RS Means most trades in Denver run from 85-95% of the national average. The national average for the trades you listed is as follows:

 

Plumber (foreman) $41.60 (nat. avg.) x .849 (Denver modifier) = $35.35 per hour

Electricians (foreman) $39.90 (nat. avg.) x .952 (Denver modifier) = $37.98 per hour

Carpenter $33.00 (nat. avg.) x .871 (Denver modifier) = $28.74 per hour

 

Now if you add payroll tax and insurances on top of that say 36% (which is about normal for a small company) assuming they are on the up and up you end up with $56.58 for a plumber, $54.27 for an electrician, and $39.09 for a carpenter. Add another 30% for company OH&P and you end up with the following:

Plumber $73.55 per hour

Electrician $70.55 per hour

Carpenter $50.82 per hour

 

When it is all said and done you can get a remodel in Denver for $60 a square foot if you do it on the cheap. Like I told ACEO it will probably cost closer to $91 per square foot ($110,000), if they want it to be nice, but it could go much higher if his wife goes crazy on finishes.

 

FYI the CHI modifiers for the three trades you listed are as follows:

Plumber 123.5%

Electrician 124.6%

Carpenter 137.7%

 

As you can see CHI is high, probably due to a stronger union presence.

 

The Dallas modifiers are much lower, and are as follows:

Plumber 67.5%

Electrician 66.5%

Carpenter 60.4%

 

Texas is much lower due to less of a union presence and more cheap labor coming in from south of the border, giving us a larger labor pool.

 

Interestingly enough the median salary for a Plumber III in Dallas is $51,035 while in Chicago it is $54,660. So the take home of the Dallas Plumber is 93% of the Chicago Plumber. Yet, the cost to the project of the Dallas plumber is only 54.6% of the Chicago plumber. I wonder where that additional 41.6% is going?

Edited April 21, 2008 by Perchoutofwater

[twiley]

I don't have time to layout the entire details but I just looked into adding an additional living room, breakfast nook, master bed/bath, & extended kitchen and the price was around 125K (not including new kitchen appliances). I almost think you're better off buying a bigger house for 40K more. I guess the housing market is different here because a house just sold 2 doors up for 145K more than the value of our house that I basically stole their addition plans.

Edited April 21, 2008 by twiley

[H8tank]

Have you considered downsizing the family instead?

[Azazello1313]

My house does not have a basement. Nor does it have an attic. Hence the frequent mentioning of "storage" being included in the design.

 

why don't you just build a few sheds?

[AtomicCEO]

Have you considered downsizing the family instead?

 

It's a little late for that.

 

why don't you just build a few sheds?