Gas is $4 a gallon...and we are getting robbed even more...

[KSUChiefsTarheelFan]

Gas stations using "bait and switch" to get more money from you at the pump.

[i_am_the_swammi]

It was a tactic used many moons ago...pay cash, pay less. They shouldn't try to hide it in unethical ways, but I have no problem with owners charging me more if the cc companies are charging them more. Consumers should get back into the habbit of paying with cash...it will save them money for the goods they purchase.

 

What has always baflfed me is when I go to pay with my debit card, the clerk always stupidly asks me if I want "debit or credit"? Why not use the power of suggestive selling, and ask "Is debit OK?".

 

Credit costs the retailer 2-3% of their revenue....debit card usage is no charge to the retailer.

 

Amazing that some businesses are so slow in training their people the right way.

[Puddy]

It was a tactic used many moons ago...pay cash, pay less. They shouldn't try to hide it in unethical ways, but I have no problem with owners charging me more if the cc companies are charging them more. Consumers should get back into the habbit of paying with cash...it will save them money for the goods they purchase.

 

What has always baflfed me is when I go to pay with my debit card, the clerk always stupidly asks me if I want "debit or credit"? Why not use the power of suggestive selling, and ask "Is debit OK?".

 

Credit costs the retailer 2-3% of their revenue....debit card usage is no charge to the retailer.

 

Amazing that some businesses are so slow in training their people the right way.

I don't think that is the case.

 

Plus I too think it's BS to charge a different amount. Maybe I don't want to carry $100 cash on me when I go to get gas. What happened to pay at the pump? Now there's a penalty to do so. So if that new mother wants to pay the lowest possible price she must get the baby out of the car seat, lug the kid into the gas station. If that's the case then make the pumps accept cash like a vending machine. I HATE going into the station.

[H8tank]

debit card usage is no charge to the retailer.

 

Well there is a BOLD FACED LIE.

[dmarc117]

the one the kills me is the pay x amount cheaper with a car wash. then that car wash is 4 blocks away!!!!

[keggerz]

Well there is a BOLD FACED LIE.

h8 is wise

[Big John]

ItCredit costs the retailer 2-3% of their revenue....debit card usage is no charge to the retailer.

 

Amazing that some businesses are so slow in training their people the right way.

Actually are a lot lower charge to the retailer, but not free - if the customer uses the PIN pad to enter the security code so it is treated like a ATM transaction. If the consumer signs the slip, it is the higher credit-card fee. (This is why many stores installed the PIN pads and the banks encourage te customers to sign the debit-card purchases)

[Big John]

I thought the credit card companies forbid this practice?

And some states too. They somehow circumvented the law by saying it is a "cash discount" price and a credit card incures the "regular" price. Several gas companies used the 2-price option until it became unpopular a decade ago. But some are apparently reviving the 2-price system, though in many areas. they would have to legally display both prices beforehand at the pump.

[Big John]

If that's the case then make the pumps accept cash like a vending machine. I HATE going into the station.

Last year by Seattle, there was a station that had cash-accepting machines by the pumps, where you selected the pump then put the cash in the machine.

[MrTed46]

I always pay with my CC so I can get the benefit (reward pts and such).

[Puddy]

I always pay with my CC so I can get the benefit (reward pts and such).

Well if your benefit is less than 2% back, you may want to switch to cash.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Puddy

[gbpfan1231]

I don't think that is the case.

 

Plus I too think it's BS to charge a different amount. Maybe I don't want to carry $100 cash on me when I go to get gas. What happened to pay at the pump? Now there's a penalty to do so. So if that new mother wants to pay the lowest possible price she must get the baby out of the car seat, lug the kid into the gas station. If that's the case then make the pumps accept cash like a vending machine. I HATE going into the station.

The gas station I believe makes a ton more profit on sellings other things besides the gas. They want you IN the store so you will hopefully purchase a fountain soda where they make gobs and gobs of margin.

Edited July 9, 2008 by gbpfan1231

[MrTed46]

Well if your benefit is less than 2% back, you may want to switch to cash.

 

 

Yeah, I am assuming cash = plastic is the same price. I hate when stations charge different prices

[Puddy]

It's simply a bad PR move by gas stations. I agree that it makes sense on the surface. However, it's better IMO to bake it into your pricing and charge everyone the same amount. If history shows that half the sales are CC sales then bake in a 1% premium. Cash payers get screwed, CC payers catch a small break.

 

 

You don't see this at any other retail channel that I'm aware of.

[Savage Beatings]

It's simply a bad PR move by gas stations. I agree that it makes sense on the surface. However, it's better IMO to bake it into your pricing and charge everyone the same amount. If history shows that half the sales are CC sales then bake in a 1% premium. Cash payers get screwed, CC payers catch a small break.

 

 

You don't see this at any other retail channel that I'm aware of.

 

yeah but I understand the incentive of wanting to get the customers into the store, so that they hopefully pick up a drink or a snack, etc. You don't really have that dynamic with most other businesses. I can totally see offering a cash discount just to get people to step inside. But being sneaky about it will get your ass in a sling these days.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Well there is a BOLD FACED LIE.

 

well, it wasn't a lie meant to deceive....i did indeed think the consumer paid for debit transactions (some banks charge customers .50 per trnasaction)...but you are right, there is a cost also absorbed by the retailer.

 

Credit vs Debit

 

From the article (an offline transaction is a credit transaction, and online transaction is a debit)

 

Who Cares?

 

So far, you may be unimpressed. Who cares how each transaction is processed? You might not, but banks and retailers do. When you do an offline transaction and simply sign a charge slip, the retailer has to pay a small percentage of your total purchase – perhaps 2%. This fee goes to the bank that issued your debit (or credit) card as an interchange fee.

 

What about online transactions? Retailers can get those done for a lot less. They might only pay 10 cents or so per transaction.

 

The whole article paints a very clear picture than retailers, in order to save money on trnasaction costs, should try to encourage consumers to opt for debit, rather than credit.

Edited July 9, 2008 by i_am_the_swammi

[detlef]

I don't think that is the case.

 

Plus I too think it's BS to charge a different amount. Maybe I don't want to carry $100 cash on me when I go to get gas. What happened to pay at the pump? Now there's a penalty to do so. So if that new mother wants to pay the lowest possible price she must get the baby out of the car seat, lug the kid into the gas station. If that's the case then make the pumps accept cash like a vending machine. I HATE going into the station.

Did you think it was BS when they charged full service or self service prices? What, exactly, do you expect? Using a CC at the pump is a convenience. One that costs the gas station over 2% off the top. Why is it so wrong of him to ask you to help shoulder the load. That mother isn't being forced to leave her baby behind, rather, the gas station isn't volunteering to pay for the fact that her choice to have a child makes it hard to go in and pay cash.

 

It's sort of funny, whenever merchants try to mitigate the costs associated with having someone scoop 2% of their total revenue off the top (which could amount to about 20% of their profit), everyone gets all pissy. Not at the dudes in Wilmington Delaware who are actually levying a tax on nearly all commerce in this country, but the poor schmuck running the business.

 

When I opened my first restaurant, I was in my late 20s and had two partners. We opened that thing on nothing and lived on scraps. Amex wanted us to accept their cards but were going to charge 3.5%. I told my partners. Considering that the industry standard for profit margins in restaurants is 10%, that means Amex is taking a bigger cut of everything we sell that gets charged on their card than any of us who spend 80+ hours per week working in this place. So we said, screw it. Mastercard and Visa were less than 2%. I'm sure at least a few people got pissy at the nerve of us not taking Amex. The same people, I'd imagine, that would get pissy about making it cheaper for people who are willing to pay cash.

 

10..9..8..7...

Edited July 9, 2008 by detlef

[i_am_the_swammi]

You don't see this at any other retail channel that I'm aware of.

You may not be aware of it, but the retailer is.

 

Try this: next time you are shopping for a big ticket item, as them if they can take 3% off the purchase price if you were to pay by cash. Ask to speak with the store manager. I have done this on numerous pruchases (TV, Ceramic Tile installation, driveway reseal, laptop), and each time, the retailer gave me the discount.

 

They know their margins, and their "net" is their "net"....if they can pass the savings onto the consumer and generate a positive shopping experience on your part, they will certianly afford you the discount in lieu of handing the "transaction fee" over the the cc companies.

[AtomicCEO]

Did you think it was BS when they charged full service or self service prices? What, exactly, do you expect? Using a CC at the pump is a convenience. One that costs the gas station over 2% off the top. Why is it so wrong of him to ask you to help shoulder the load.

 

So I have the same opinion about this that I have about charging for ATM fees.

 

How about if all of the gas station customers decided not to use their CCs at the pump and instead went into the store and paid cash? You'd need to hire more tellers to accomodate the volume. That employee time has a cost too. The gas station benefits because they don't have to do sh:t to get a sale. Also, if they didn't take credit cards, I'd go to a different station and they'd get my business.

[Puddy]

Did you think it was BS when they charged full service or self service prices? What, exactly, do you expect? Using a CC at the pump is a convenience. One that costs the gas station over 2% off the top. Why is it so wrong of him to ask you to help shoulder the load. That mother isn't being forced to leave her baby behind, rather, the gas station isn't volunteering to pay for the fact that her choice to have a child makes it hard to go in and pay cash.

 

It's sort of funny, whenever merchants try to mitigate the costs associated with having someone scoop 2% of their total revenue off the top (which could amount to about 20% of their profit), everyone gets all pissy. Not at the dudes in Wilmington Delaware who are actually levying a tax on nearly all commerce in this country, but the poor schmuck running the business.

 

When I opened my first restaurant, I was in my late 20s and had two partners. We opened that thing on nothing and lived on scraps. Amex wanted us to accept their cards but were going to charge 3.5%. I told my partners. Considering that the industry standard for profit margins in restaurants is 10%, that means Amex is taking a bigger cut of everything we sell that gets charged on their card than any of us who spend 80+ hours per week working in this place. So we said, screw it. Mastercard and Visa were less than 2%. I'm sure at least a few people got pissy at the nerve of us not taking Amex. The same people, I'd imagine, that would get pissy about making it cheaper for people who are willing to pay cash.

 

10..9..8..7...

 

Did you not read the entire thread? I am well aware of the increased cost to the business owner. Do you have a separate menu if I want to pay cash? No. You are smart enough to factor the CC cost just like any cost of running your business and make sure you price your food accordingly.

 

When your cost of borrowing goes up because the Fed increases the bank rate do you add a surcharge for interest to every bill? No. You consider interest expense when setting your price.

 

It's foolish for the gas stations to pick this one part of their business to isolate and charge separately for. If they just considered it as another of their many costs and based their pricing on that, nobody would be up in arms about it. Stupid PR move.

[detlef]

So I have the same opinion about this that I have about charging for ATM fees.

 

How about if all of the gas station customers decided not to use their CCs at the pump and instead went into the store and paid cash? You'd need to hire more tellers to accomodate the volume. That employee time has a cost too. The gas station benefits because they don't have to do sh:t to get a sale. Also, if they didn't take credit cards, I'd go to a different station and they'd get my business.

Are you referring to the charge for using an ATM that isn't your bank's? Well, who are you pissed at? The bank that isn't yours that initiates the charge or the bank that is yours for not agreeing to pay that bank on your behalf?

 

As for your theory on what would happen if everyone paid cash, I doubt the cost of hiring another attendant would amount to 2+% of total revenue. That's a pretty big slice.

Edited July 9, 2008 by detlef

[detlef]

Did you not read the entire thread? I am well aware of the increased cost to the business owner. Do you have a separate menu if I want to pay cash? No. You are smart enough to factor the CC cost just like any cost of running your business and make sure you price your food accordingly.

 

When your cost of borrowing goes up because the Fed increases the bank rate do you add a surcharge for interest to every bill? No. You consider interest expense when setting your price.

 

It's foolish for the gas stations to pick this one part of their business to isolate and charge separately for. If they just considered it as another of their many costs and based their pricing on that, nobody would be up in arms about it. Stupid PR move.

Well, unfortunately for me, I sell a more optional product than gas and part of that product is tied very closely to the quality of the experience. Gas is not that way. If you need it, you need it.

 

See, I'm over a barrel because I'm in the only retail situation out there with weird taboo issues with the transfer of money. In most others, you walk to a counter, they tell you how much and you just pay them right then and there. In mine, some people get bent if the waiter has the nerve to even quickly look in the bill folder to make sure you left a signed copy of your CC slip.

 

Of course, it's all a matter of perspective isn't it. You see it as getting charged more for using your CC. I see it as getting a break for paying cash.

[KSUChiefsTarheelFan]

I think that's cuz most people think the waiter is looking at the tip amount.

and in most cases they are

[detlef]

I think that's cuz most people think the waiter is looking at the tip amount.

I understand that's the case but it doesn't change the fact that the entire transaction is set up in this very unique manner that puts both the merchant and waiter at risk of not getting paid at all just so the customer doesn't have to deal with the indignity of being confronted with the check.

 

You can go to a pretty fancy retail operation and when it comes time to pay, you walk up to the counter and dude tells you right to your face. "That'll be $1275". Then you reach into your wallet, and pay the man right then and there. A restaurant? You can run up a $15 tab and dude very politely and discreetly slips a bill hidden in a black leather book and says, "Please take your time." Then, after you give him your credit card and it gets run, he needs to leave it on your table until you are gone and out of sight? Once again, risking the fact that you're going to forget to sign or take both copies? You do realize that the waiter is out the tip if you do that.

 

The only reason I even bring this up is to illustrate why it would be absolute suicide for any restaurant to mess with the paying system. Well, at least a somewhat fancy place. I really do want to clarify that I'm not ranting or complaining about this, simply pointing out that my industry has about the most random and screwy manner in which money changes hands from consumer to merchant so there's simply no reason at all to compare it to any other in terms of what you can and can't do.

Edited July 9, 2008 by detlef

[AtomicCEO]

As for your theory on what would happen if everyone paid cash, I doubt the cost of hiring another attendant would amount to 2+% of total revenue. That's a pretty big slice.

 

Then don't take credit cards at all. Lots of businesses don't. Not businesses that I go to... but they exist.

 

Man, people are right about you. You complain about everything.