Tapping the strategic oil reserve = dumb idea, Obama

[billay]

I have said before that we should view ANWR as a strategic oil reserve that can be drilled in the event of an emergency.

But how can it be used in an emergency if it takes 7 to 10 years to get the oil to market?

[TimC]

[Capn] Why don't you guys just leave Obama alone!! [/Grunge]

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

[Capn] Why don't you guys just leave Obama alone!! [/Grunge]

 

I said it was a dumb idea too Tim. Try to keep up.

[TimC]

I said it was a dumb idea too Tim. Try to keep up.

 

I'm gonna have to rob a bank to keep up when he's elected.

[WaterMan]

I'm gonna have to rob a bank to keep up when he's elected.

 

With banks failing under Bush, there won't be any to rob.

[Azazello1313]

I have said before that we should view ANWR as a strategic oil reserve that can be drilled in the event of an emergency.

 

if we want to have it for an emergency we'd better start drilling there now.

 

I'm not informed enough to know whether we need more oil in the reserve. if we do, go for it. it's really a separate issue though from increasing domestic production. increasing domestic production is something that makes sense whether it goes to the reserve, or to market, or wherever. one more gallon produced here, for whatever purpose, is one less gallon bought from abroad.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

if we want to have it for an emergency we'd better start drilling there now.

 

I'm not informed enough to know whether we need more oil in the reserve. if we do, go for it. it's really a separate issue though from increasing domestic production. increasing domestic production is something that makes sense whether it goes to the reserve, or to market, or wherever. one more gallon produced here, for whatever purpose, is one less gallon bought from abroad.

 

Except if it's produced here, what guarantee do we have that it will be sold here? I thought I heard something a while back that a concern with ANWR was that additional oil produced there would just be sold overseas...

[yo mama]

If anything, any additional domestic drilling should first and foremost add to our strategic reserves...

I'm pretty sure those are virtually full: around 97% capacity. We suspended filling them completely up because we were buying historically expensive oil to do so. Plus, some felt that the added demand in connection with reserve buying was fueling global price increases. But I generally agree with your sentiment that any additional domestic drilling should inure to the benefit of only the USA. Giving it away to private oil companies, so they can sell it to China, doesn't do much for either the USA or the average American.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Bad idea. This isn't close to an emergency.

 

How do you define emergency?

 

I clasify millions of people cripled by a housing crisis that has direct correlations to other economic factors (including energy consumption) as an emergency.

[WaterMan]

How do you define emergency?

 

I clasify millions of people cripled by a housing crisis that has direct correlations to other economic factors (including energy consumption) as an emergency.

 

It's not an emergency if it's happening to other people.

[Azazello1313]

Except if it's produced here, what guarantee do we have that it will be sold here? I thought I heard something a while back that a concern with ANWR was that additional oil produced there would just be sold overseas...

 

the hugh bulk of it's going to be sold domestically simply because the US has demand that so greatly outstrips its supply, and it will be more economical to sell it here than elsewhere. I can't imagine why any new trade barriers would be needed to realize the benefits of additional domestic production, and they are probably on balance a bad idea. but hey, if that's the only way to get the political forces so vehemently and stubbornly opposed to new production onboard, then go for it, far as I'm concerned.

[AtomicCEO]

hey at least that idea, dumb as it is, would actually LOWER gas prices -- unlike his other retarded oil pandering idea, the windfall tax nonsense.

 

And why do we need to lower gas prices?

 

Gas prices have doubled int he past few years, and you know what? It's having a good effect. People are buying fewer wasteful vehicles, and consumption is going down.

 

High gas prices are a good thing. Don't tap the reserves, don't subsidize exploration, and don't drill more. This is having a positive long-term effect.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

And why do we need to lower gas prices?

 

Gas prices have doubled int he past few years, and you know what? It's having a good effect. People are buying fewer wasteful vehicles, and consumption is going down.

 

High gas prices are a good thing. Don't tap the reserves, don't subsidize exploration, and don't drill more. This is having a positive long-term effect.

 

Higher gas prices = consumption going down for more things than just gas I guess, depressing the entire economy. Less spending = less retail dollars generated = more unemployment = less money to spend. A bad cycle.

[Azazello1313]

Gas prices have doubled int he past few years, and you know what? It's having a good effect. People are buying fewer wasteful vehicles, and consumption is going down.

 

High gas prices are a good thing. Don't tap the reserves, don't subsidize exploration, and don't drill more. This is having a positive long-term effect.

 

I only wish most democrats were as honest as you. I mean, for decades, they have been saying "we NEED $3 a gallon gas". they've been obstructing any attempt at increasing production, raising gas taxes, basically anything they can do to make sure gas prices go higher and higher. now that it has all worked so brilliantly, they want to give all the credit for high gas prices to bush.

[yo mama]

the hugh bulk of it's going to be sold domestically simply because the US has demand that so greatly outstrips its supply, and it will be more economical to sell it here than elsewhere.

But 100% of our demand is currently being met by a mix of domestic and foreign production. We can buy as much oil as we want to in the global market place right now. It isn't like we want to buy oil and the world is "out of stock." Prices may be high, but supply is readily available.

 

That said, how do you equate additional - essentially excess supply - flowing into the GLOBAL market place (as opposed to ear-marked for domestic consumption) making a difference to citizens of the USA when we can already buy all the oil we want? I mean, have you been to gas station that is out of gas due to gas shortages? No, you haven't.

 

*If* there were a lack of availability then maybe this would be an emergency (depending on the scale and duration). However, readily available gasoline merely being more expensive than it used to be is not. If people built their lives around the misguided assumption that things would remain the same price forever they made mistake; one that was not well founded in history, economics, or common sense. I sympathize, because I have to pay those same high prices. But the best solution to their household economic problems likely rests in lifestyle changes: not drilling ANWAR.

Edited August 4, 2008 by yo mama

[AtomicCEO]

Higher gas prices = consumption going down for more things than just gas I guess, depressing the entire economy. Less spending = less retail dollars generated = more unemployment = less money to spend. A bad cycle.

 

Right and if you quit smoking, the first few days you feel like crap. In the end, you're healthier.

Buying a carton of Chesterfields is a quick fix and you feel good, but in the end you're still in a crappy position.

 

Right now the economy is depressed because we're still a gas-based society... as it becomes unprofitable to do that... people will find more economical ways to handle their problems and we'll stop relying on the middle east to give us our lunch.

 

The market is controlling our energy policy, just like a free-market society should do. Subsidizing oil use through tapping the reserves, opening up our coasts and our national parks for drilling, or subsidizing exploration is communism, plain and simple.

Edited August 4, 2008 by AtomicCEO

[Azazello1313]

That said, how do you equate additional - essentially excess supply - flowing into the GLOBAL market place (as opposed to ear-marked for domestic consumption) making a difference to citizens of the USA when we can already buy all the oil we want? I mean, have you been to gas station that is out of gas due to gas shortages? No, you haven't.

 

I don't really understand. are you asking how increased supply makes a difference to what americans are paying at the pump? umm, it works kind of like this.

[yo mama]

I don't really understand.

I can see that you don't, which is why your opinion on this issue isn't worth much, IMO.

[Pope Flick]

I don't really understand. are you asking how increased supply makes a difference to what americans are paying at the pump? umm, it works kind of like this.

 

 

Even you know he's referring to supply going up and prices going up as well.

[Azazello1313]

I can see that you don't, which is why your opinion on this issue isn't worth much, IMO.

 

you asked how additional supply flowing into the market will affect american citizens. and MY opinion isn't worth much?

[TheShiznit]

I don't really understand. are you asking how increased supply makes a difference to what americans are paying at the pump? umm, it works kind of like this.

 

Increasing supply would only drive prices down if the demand were greater than the current supply. IOW....yes the price would drop because no one likes to have to much inventory, but it wouldn't drop very much because demand is what it is....and the oil companies can always store it and sell it a higher prices later. There is really no need to increase the supply when the current supply meets current demand.

[Azazello1313]

Even you know he's referring to supply going up and prices going up as well.

 

umm, no. increased supply leads to lower prices.

 

yo wedgie, ruling on this please....?

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Right and if you quit smoking, the first few days you feel like crap. In the end, you're healthier.

Buying a carton of Chesterfields is a quick fix and you feel good, but in the end you're still in a crappy position.

 

Right now the economy is depressed because we're still a gas-based society... as it becomes unprofitable to do that... people will find more economical ways to handle their problems and we'll stop relying on the middle east to give us our lunch.

 

The market is controlling our energy policy, just like a free-market society should do. Subsidizing oil use through tapping the reserves, opening up our coasts and our national parks for drilling, or subsidizing exploration is communism, plain and simple.

 

OK, how about we open it up, but at a premium. Take the royalties and put people to work by rebuilding our bridges and other badly needed infrastructure?

[Azazello1313]

Increasing supply would only drive prices down if the demand were greater than the current supply. IOW....yes the price would drop because no one likes to have to much inventory, but it wouldn't drop very much because demand is what it is....and the oil companies can always store it and sell it a higher prices later. There is really no need to increase the supply when the current supply meets current demand.

 

good god.

 

supply and demand are "curves". that means they are not absolute numbers, they fluctuate depending on price. lower price, higher demand. higher price, lower demand. higher price, higher supply. lower price, lower supply. if you increase supply, you change where the two "curves" intersect.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

good god.

 

supply and demand are "curves". that means they are not absolute numbers, they fluctuate depending on price. lower price, higher demand. higher price, lower demand. higher price, higher supply. lower price, lower supply. if you increase supply, you change where the two "curves" intersect.

 

Don't forget that it's relatively inelastic.