hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 (edited) should that not be a fumble, a recovery, and a 2nd fumble? the gamebook has it as a single fumble. i can't imagine it's because he did'nt possess it... Edited September 16, 2008 by hooknladder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 that's an interesting question. i would think it woudl be 2 fumbles, 1 recovery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 It never gets scored as a fumble because he never lost posession... til the 2nd one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 should that not be a fumble, a recovery, and a 2nd fumble?the gamebook has it as a single fumble. i can't imagine it's because he did'nt possess it... No league Ive ever played in has EVER scored anything for a fumble that is recovered by the same team. You only get points (or lose them) for fumbles lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 It never gets scored as a fumble because he never lost posession... til the 2nd one. it hit the turf! (the 1st time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 No league Ive ever played in has EVER scored anything for a fumble that is recovered by the same team. You only get points (or lose them) for fumbles lost. both my leagues do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Pimp Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 No league Ive ever played in has EVER scored anything for a fumble that is recovered by the same team. You only get points (or lose them) for fumbles lost. +1 If it's not a turnover why would you lose points? Would you penalize the QB for getting sacked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 it hit the turf! (the 1st time) Hit the ground or not, it was not a fumble lost. both my leagues do Well, that is a very unique league. Id bet 99% of the folks here do not have that in their leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 in my primary league you get -2 for a fumble and +4 for a recovery. so you can see my concern. in that league, if a player drops the ball and picks it back up, it's a two point play. -it does'nt happen often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Hit the ground or not, it was not a fumble lost. Well, that is a very unique league. Id bet 99% of the folks here do not have that in their leagues. and the real question is why is it not recorded in the official gamebook? the NFL does not just record fumbles lost...they record fumbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 in my primary league you get -2 for a fumble and +4 for a recovery. so you can see my concern. in that league, if a player drops the ball and picks it back up, it's a two point play. -it does'nt happen often. I would be more concerned about the fact that my league rewards a dude for dropping the ball and picking it up than I would about how a strange play like this should be scored. I would imagine that the vast majority of the time you are better off never having dropped the ball at all rather recovering your own fumble. I know, really going out on a limb here but I'm just guessing. Why would you want to reward a player for a play like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMRogers Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 in my primary league you get -2 for a fumble and +4 for a recovery. so you can see my concern. in that league, if a player drops the ball and picks it back up, it's a two point play. -it does'nt happen often. That actually does happen a good bit - happened to someone else on the Cowboys (can't remeember who, but I was pissed cause it bounced righ tback to the guy) last night. However, with Romo's, not sure if they do it that way as it could be that one one play you can only have one fumble, maybe trying to keep some of those crazy plays you see on follies from looking too crazy in the stat book....don't know really to be honest. Is your -2 for 'fumble' or for 'fumble lost'. On any fumble not lost, does one player get the -2 and another offensive player get the +4 everytime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 I would be more concerned about the fact that my league rewards a dude for dropping the ball and picking it up than I would about how a strange play like this should be scored. I would imagine that the vast majority of the time you are better off never having dropped the ball at all rather recovering your own fumble. I know, really going out on a limb here but I'm just guessing. Why would you want to reward a player for a play like that? your not rewarding the guy. the vast majority of the time you don't recover your own fumble. he's penalized for dropping it, but rewarded for recovering it. it's rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 (edited) Is your -2 for 'fumble' or for 'fumble lost'. On any fumble not lost, does one player get the -2 and another offensive player get the +4 everytime? -2 is just for fumbling. -2 for any player that fumbles. +4 for any player that recovers. this is an IDP league. the only exception would be if it's fumbled out of bounds and no one recovers...or picked up by a lineman, or free-agent. (then no one gets the +4) Edited September 16, 2008 by hooknladder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 and the real question is why is it not recorded in the official gamebook? the NFL does not just record fumbles lost...they record fumbles. I dont believe this is correct... I think they only markit a fumble if it is lost. BJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 your not rewarding the guy. the vast majority of the time you don't recover your own fumble. he's penalized for dropping it, but rewarded for recovering it. it's rare. Well, what you have here is an unintended consequence and precisely the sort of thing that, at least my leagues, try to filter out of the scoring system over time. I understand that you set it up to do one thing but you've created a situation where a player will, in fact, get rewarded for doing something that ultimately doesn't really benefit his team more often than not. I don't know. One very simple thing would be to make it -2/+2 so it would be a net zero situation when you got your own fumble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 I dont believe this is correct... I think they only markit a fumble if it is lost. BJ? Wrong. check the gamebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I dont believe this is correct... I think they only markit a fumble if it is lost. BJ? The official box score does show fumbles and fumbles lost as two separate stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Well, what you have here is an unintended consequence and precisely the sort of thing that, at least my leagues, try to filter out of the scoring system over time. I understand that you set it up to do one thing but you've created a situation where a player will, in fact, get rewarded for doing something that ultimately doesn't really benefit his team more often than not. I don't know. One very simple thing would be to make it -2/+2 so it would be a net zero situation when you got your own fumble? no. it's harder to recover a fumble than it is to fumble. i don't think your getting it. the +4 for a recovery is probably a result of the IDP format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 The official box score does show fumbles and fumbles lost as two separate stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 ...............so back to the question...why does it not appear in the gamebook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 no. it's harder to recover a fumble than it is to fumble. i don't think your getting it. the +4 for a recovery is probably a result of the IDP format. I'm rather aware that it is easier to simply drop a ball on the ground than it is to fight 21 other people for possession of said ball. None the less, nearly every time somebody fumbles a ball, it is recovered by someone else and the act of putting possession up for grabs is no less important to the outcome of the game than the act of seizing possession for one's team. Thus, it would not seem remotely odd to make them the same value. Especially if doing so avoids a situation where a guy can actually gain points by dropping the ball on the ground. It is nearly impossible to come up with a scoring system that 100% reflects the scarcity and difficulty of doing all the things that happen in a game. Thus, at least in my league, rule #1 is that we don't have rules that can reward doing something bad for your team within one play. Obviously in the larger scale this is hard if not impossible to avoid. After all, in terms of fantasy, it can often be better for your D to allow the opposing team to convert a 3rd down as it gives them another chance to get a sack, fumble, pick, etc. However, it does seem that players should not be able to profit in a particular play by doing something like fumble the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 I'm rather aware that it is easier to simply drop a ball on the ground than it is to fight 21 other people for possession of said ball. None the less, nearly every time somebody fumbles a ball, it is recovered by someone else and the act of putting possession up for grabs is no less important to the outcome of the game than the act of seizing possession for one's team. Thus, it would not seem remotely odd to make them the same value. Especially if doing so avoids a situation where a guy can actually gain points by dropping the ball on the ground. It is nearly impossible to come up with a scoring system that 100% reflects the scarcity and difficulty of doing all the things that happen in a game. Thus, at least in my league, rule #1 is that we don't have rules that can reward doing something bad for your team within one play. Obviously in the larger scale this is hard if not impossible to avoid. After all, in terms of fantasy, it can often be better for your D to allow the opposing team to convert a 3rd down as it gives them another chance to get a sack, fumble, pick, etc. However, it does seem that players should not be able to profit in a particular play by doing something like fumble the ball. Det, as i said above, your not rewarding him for dropping the ball...your rewarding him for recovering. that is something rare and difficult to do. the vast majority of the time someone else recovers it. that's why it should be rewarded. it's not really a reward. ANYONE who recovers gets 4. and again, as i said above, it's probably a result of IDP scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 For whatever reason the NFL scorers only credited Romo with one fumble. Perhaps there will be a stat change at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 For whatever reason the NFL scorers only credited Romo with one fumble. Perhaps there will be a stat change at some point. i contacted them via E-mail so we shall see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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