Kurt Warner

[Bill Swerski]

Brett Favre had some pretty bad years.

 

By my count, Favre had about four mediocre-to-poor seasons to go along with 10 excellent ones in an unprecedented 18-year, 460-TD career. Comparing his situation to Warner's is nothing short of silly.

 

[The middle of John Elway's career was spotty at best. Who cares!? They have Super Bowls and MVPs and Super Bowl MVPs. Warner has done so much good that it dwarfs the negative, just like the other two examples.

 

Warner's "negative" accounts for a full half of his career. Not so with Favre and Elway. Even in some of Elway's statistically-weak seasons in the late '80s and early '90s, he was still consistently throwing for over 3,000 yds, his team managed to win 3 AFC titles, and he was widely considered one of the best QBs in the league. Nobody considered the 2002-2006 era Warner one of the best QBs in the league. He couldn't even hold onto a starting job over that five-year span.

[Bill Swerski]

Ummm, dumbass media tards decide who is in and who isn't... from profootballhof.com

 

Unfortunately, that's correct. Which is why guys like Art Monk and Harry Carson got screwed over for several years.

 

It doesn't take a great triumph over cognitive dissonance to see how Warner might be a deserving candidate.

 

I never said that he isn't deserving of consideration. Where are you getting that from?

 

Go down the list of AP MVPs. link2.gif It's mostly HOFers. All of the multiple MVPs are HOFers.

 

How many HOF inductees have spent half of their careers either sucking or holding a clipboard?

 

I agree that the MVP awards are very helpful, but they don't make him a slam-dunk. There are MANY other factors to consider.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[policyvote]

I gotta say BIll, you are doing a hell of a job being the voice of reason here.

 

Peace

policy

[Jrick35]

How many HOF inductees have spent half of their careers either sucking or holding a clipboard?

 

I agree that the MVP awards are very helpful, but they don't make him a slam-dunk. There are MANY other factors to consider.

 

I agree there are many other factors to consider than just the MVP's but I feel like you have intentionally decided to ignore some of the other factors that have been mentioned in this thread. And I think you are obsessing on the 2002-2006 seasons too much.

 

There are not many players who had HOF season's every year. Ecept maybe Jim Brown. In fact there are people in the HOF not for their career numbers as much as for just how they played the game. Lance Alworth & Roger Staubach come to mind as players that fit that mold.

 

And there are players in the HOF who did not play many years at all, like Gale Sayers & Earl Campbell, so Terrell Davis getting in some day is not that far fetched of an idea.

 

And certainly there are players not in the HOF who should be.

 

But when you look at all that Warner has accomplished it far outshines the 2002-2006 seasons. And you know as well as I do, Warner was not benched in NY or Arizona due to his play, he was benched to allow the hot shot rookies a chance to earn their pay, Eli did, Leinart has not. Warner was never given a real chance to start in NY. He has been given that chance in ARI and look what he is doing with it.

 

And please don't tell me it is his receiving corp. If it were just the wr's then Leinart could do what Warner is doing and we all know that is not the case.

 

And one more point, it is the Pro Football Hall Of Fame, not the NFL Hall Of Fame so any thing Warner did in NFL Europe & The Arena League can be considered part of his Pro Career, much the way the CFL is for other players.

[kingfish247]

...

How many HOF inductees have spent half of their careers either sucking or holding a clipboard?

 

I agree that the MVP awards are very helpful, but they don't make him a slam-dunk. There are MANY other factors to consider.

You're all over the place. You cited this as your criteria...

 

Dominating on the field over a long period of time, winning games, and (ideally) winning championships are the criteria for enshrinement in Canton.

 

Then...

 

I agree that the MVP awards are very helpful, but they don't make him a slam-dunk. There are MANY other factors to consider.

 

I completely agree with the latter but don't completely agree with the former. Yes, there are many factors to consider. Very rarely will any HOF candidate meet ALL of the criteria you mentioned. Art Monk being a perfect example. He wasn't really dominating over a long period of time (he only finished a season top 5 in any major category 3 times). He didn't really 'win' games (he was a WR playing in the ultimate team sport) but his team won games. He was part of a team that won championships.

 

Monk finally got in because voters finally got over the fact that he wasn't an elite WR. They got over the fact that, arguably, he wasn't even the most talented WR on his own team. They got over the fact he's a pretty dull 86th on the all-time TD list (Andre Rison scored 26 more TDs than Monk). Monk's positives finally outweighed the negatives.

 

This is precisely the argument FOR Warner. Warner's positives... 2 (maybe 3) MVPs, SB championship (1 more than Marino, for example), better comp % than Young, highest all-time pass ypg, highest rate of 300yd games... should outweigh his negatives... durability, half his career consists of some bad years, he was a QB in an era of gawdy passing numbers. Warner's positives are precisely why a QB like Drew Bledsoe or Jim (Chris) Everett will probably NEVER get in.

[wildcat2334]

You're all over the place. You cited this as your criteria...

 

 

 

Then...

 

 

 

I completely agree with the latter but don't completely agree with the former. Yes, there are many factors to consider. Very rarely will any HOF candidate meet ALL of the criteria you mentioned. Art Monk being a perfect example. He wasn't really dominating over a long period of time (he only finished a season top 5 in any major category 3 times). He didn't really 'win' games (he was a WR playing in the ultimate team sport) but his team won games. He was part of a team that won championships.

 

Monk finally got in because voters finally got over the fact that he wasn't an elite WR. They got over the fact that, arguably, he wasn't even the most talented WR on his own team. They got over the fact he's a pretty dull 86th on the all-time TD list (Andre Rison scored 26 more TDs than Monk). Monk's positives finally outweighed the negatives.

 

This is precisely the argument FOR Warner. Warner's positives... 2 (maybe 3) MVPs, SB championship (1 more than Marino, for example), better comp % than Young, highest all-time pass ypg, highest rate of 300yd games... should outweigh his negatives... durability, half his career consists of some bad years, he was a QB in an era of gawdy passing numbers. Warner's positives are precisely why a QB like Drew Bledsoe or Jim (Chris) Everett will probably NEVER get in.

 

 

werd - I like this guy...............................solid points all around

[Bill Swerski]

You're all over the place.

 

No, I'm not. There are A NUMBER of factors that go into determining HOF-worthiness. Some (being a top-tier player for a decade, statistics, winning games/championships, etc.) should be weighed heavier than others (like somebody's subjective opinion).

 

And I think you are obsessing on the 2002-2006 seasons too much.

 

Since those five seasons comprise HALF of Warner's NFL career, it seems to me that you're unfairly dismissing them as irrelevant.

 

There are not many players who had HOF season's every year. Ecept maybe Jim Brown. In fact there are people in the HOF not for their career numbers as much as for just how they played the game. And there are players in the HOF who did not play many years at all, like Gale Sayers & Earl Campbell, so Terrell Davis getting in some day is not that far fetched of an idea.

 

"How they play the game"?

 

I don't know of many HOF QBs over the past quarter century who've played half of their careers at such a low level that they lost THREE starting jobs. I also don't know of many flash-in-the-pan backs since Earl Campbell who've been inducted, so I'd say that the chances of Terrell Davis (or Priest Holmes) getting into Canton are slim to nill.

 

And you know as well as I do, Warner was not benched in NY or Arizona due to his play, he was benched to allow the hot shot rookies a chance to earn their pay, Eli did, Leinart has not. Warner was never given a real chance to start in NY. He has been given that chance in ARI and look what he is doing with it.

 

And that speaks volumes about Warner's level of play from 2002-2006. He sucked and every GM in the league knew it. None of them thought they could build a championship team around him, so his only offers were temporary get-me-by starting gigs.

 

And one more point, it is the Pro Football Hall Of Fame, not the NFL Hall Of Fame so any thing Warner did in NFL Europe & The Arena League can be considered part of his Pro Career, much the way the CFL is for other players.

 

 

Uh, I don't think that Warner's stint with the Iowa Barnstormers is going to count much towards his argument for enshrinement in Canton. I also don't foresee Doug Flutie, one of the greatest players in the history of the CFL, going into Canton either.

 

I gotta say BIll, you are doing a hell of a job being the voice of reason here.

 

Peace

policy

 

Thank you.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Seahawks21]

What are the biggest factors into getting into Canton as a QB? In order....

 

Super Bowl winner--check

Super Bowl MVP--Check

MVP--Check (at least 2)

Statistics--Top 3 in passer rating, most accurate EVER, top 20 in everything else (if he plays about 12 games next year).

Longevity---this is the one and only area where Warner is lacking. He didn't have a great season every season. Not that Elway or Favre or others did, but we'll allow this for now.

Additional help--Orchestrated the best offensive era we have ever seen any team muster

 

Voters will read something very similar to this and he will be in the hall very quickly, whether or not a certain Huddler agrees. It is a given. If he does not get in somehow, he will be so far ahead of the next closest QB that is not in, it would be beyond shocking. There is no player in any sport with his resume that is not in the HOF. If you think Warner will be a trailblazer, you are free to your opinion, flat-wrong as it is. Every media guy when asked has said he is in, 99% of the people here have said he is in, anybody else I ask the question to says he is a no-brainer. Everybody except for the guy doing the name-calling. At first I thought you were going to be able to come up with some concrete reasons or link his history to someone similar to show why he won't get in, but you have come up with nothing remotely compelling. There is all of this evidence that says he will get in, and then there are "The Swerski Rules".

 

Does anyone have any idea who the "next" QB's are in line for the HOF? Who is on the outside looking in and what do their resumes look like?

Edited November 20, 2008 by Seahawks21

[Jrick35]

- let's look at Warner as compared to Steve Young. He played for 15 Seasons and he is deservedly in the HOF.

 

In 15 seasons in the NFL Young:

- threw for 3,000 or more yards six times (Warner has 5 already and threw for 2700 in his 10 starts in 2005)

- Threw for a total of 33,124 yds (Warner is over 27,000 yds)

- had 20 or more touchdown passes in a season five times (Warner has already matched that)

- posted a passer rating of 100 or higher six times with a career rating of 96.8. (3 times so far with another year at 98.4 for a career rating of 94.6)

- Young, one of the most accurate passers in league history completed 64.3 % of his passes , (Warner has completed 65.7% over his career)

- Won two league MVP’s (Warner has 2 and is working on his 3rd)

- Young started less than 48% of the games played over his career (Warner has started 67%, thus far)

- Started in Super Bowl 1 time (Warner has started 2 times so far)

- Won a Super Bowl (So has Warner)

- Super Bowl MVP 1 (Warner has matched that)

 

So in what you call 5 good years and 5 crap years Warner has nearly matched many of Steve Youngs marks that took him 15 years to set.

 

Now I give full credit to Youngs Running ability but Young is regarded as a great passer and look how close Warner's career numbers AND Achievemnets are to Youngs, regardless of the number of games played or not played Warner has already done enough.

[Bill Swerski]

What are the biggest factors into getting into Canton as a QB? In order....

 

Super Bowl winner--check

Super Bowl MVP--Check

 

If this were true, Dan Fouts never would've been inducted.

 

And these days, QBs who win Super Bowls usually get the MVP award by default, unless they play really poorly (Roethlisberger), are out-shined by a stellar running game (Elway), or they've won multiple SB MVPs already (Brady) and the powers that be decide to give it to somebody else.

[kingfish247]

No, I'm not. There are A NUMBER of factors that go into determining HOF-worthiness. Some (being a top-tier player for a decade, statistics, winning games/championships, etc.) should be weighed heavier than others (like somebody's subjective opinion).

Isn't this though your subjective opinion on what criteria should be weighed and by how much more over the other?

Maybe we should select our HOF inductees based on a cold, objective computer that crunches all sorts of numbers and stats then spits out the list of inductees every year.

In reality, it's the consensus opinion of all the media tards.

[Bill Swerski]

- let's look at Warner as compared to Steve Young. He played for 15 Seasons and he is deservedly in the HOF.

 

In 15 seasons in the NFL Young:

- threw for 3,000 or more yards six times (Warner has 5 already and threw for 2700 in his 10 starts in 2005)

- Threw for a total of 33,124 yds (Warner is over 27,000 yds)

- had 20 or more touchdown passes in a season five times (Warner has already matched that)

- posted a passer rating of 100 or higher six times with a career rating of 96.8. (3 times so far with another year at 98.4 for a career rating of 94.6)

- Young, one of the most accurate passers in league history completed 64.3 % of his passes , (Warner has completed 65.7% over his career)

- Won two league MVP’s (Warner has 2 and is working on his 3rd)

- Young started less than 48% of the games played over his career (Warner has started 67%, thus far)

- Started in Super Bowl 1 time (Warner has started 2 times so far)

- Won a Super Bowl (So has Warner)

- Super Bowl MVP 1 (Warner has matched that)

 

So in what you call 5 good years and 5 crap years Warner has nearly matched many of Steve Youngs marks that took him 15 years to set.

 

Now I give full credit to Youngs Running ability but Young is regarded as a great passer and look how close Warner's career numbers AND Achievemnets are to Youngs, regardless of the number of games played or not played Warner has already done enough.

 

This isn't a bad argument. Certainly, Young's days on those horrible Bucs teams of the '80s, his time holding the clipboard in SF, and the concussions that forced him into early retirement didn't help his cause. And I'm not sure that he would've been a first-ballot inductee had he not won a SB.

 

That said, consider the following...

 

- Young has over 4,200 career rushing yds and 43 rushing TDs. Combine that with over 33,000 career passing yds and 232 passing TDs and you have not only an excellent QB, but a veritable offensive machine. Steve Young is literally THE model of a mobile West Coast QB. He's exceeded Warner through the air by a substantial amount (so far) and had an extra skill set that Warner completely lacks. Because of this, I don't think that Warner will ever reach Young's level.

 

- Young was a dominant, elite QB for 7 straight seasons. Warner dominated for three seasons, fell off the face of the Earth for the next 5, had a strong 2007, and is playing at a high level so far this season. IMO, Warner needs another 2 1/2 years at his current level of play to equal Young as a passer.

 

- Warner was never forced to compete with Joe Montana for a starting job.

 

- Warner was never on an offense as bad as the '85 and '86 Bucs.

[Bill Swerski]

Isn't this though your subjective opinion on what criteria should be weighed and by how much more over the other?

 

And isn't it your subjective opinion that League MVP awards mean more than playing at a Pro Bowl level for greater than four years?

 

Maybe we should select our HOF inductees based on a cold, objective computer that crunches all sorts of numbers and stats then spits out the list of inductees every year.

 

Or perhaps we need people more intelligent than Peter King and Paul Zimmerman on the HOF committee.

[Jrick35]

This isn't a bad argument. Certainly, Young's days on those horrible Bucs teams of the '80s, his time holding the clipboard in SF, and the concussions that forced him into early retirement didn't help his cause. And I'm not sure that he would've been a first-ballot inductee had he not won a SB.

 

That said, consider the following...

 

- Young has over 4,200 career rushing yds and 43 rushing TDs. Combine that with over 33,000 career passing yds and 232 passing TDs and you have not only an excellent QB, but a veritable offensive machine. Steve Young is literally THE model of a mobile West Coast QB. He's exceeded Warner through the air by a substantial amount (so far) and had an extra skill set that Warner completely lacks. Because of this, I don't think that Warner will ever reach Young's level.

 

- Young was a dominant, elite QB for 7 straight seasons. Warner dominated for three seasons, fell off the face of the Earth for the next 5, had a strong 2007, and is playing at a high level so far this season. IMO, Warner needs another 2 1/2 years at his current level of play to equal Young as a passer.

 

- Warner was never forced to compete with Joe Montana for a starting job.

 

- Warner was never on an offense as bad as the '85 and '86 Bucs.

 

Despite all of Youngs accolades you say it was his Super Bowl win that clinched his first ballot induction, and you nearly completely discount Warners Super Bowl win and second Super Bowl appearnace

 

Despite Young not getting the starting gig on a lousy Tampa team you discount those 5 or 6 years as his days on those horrible Bucs teams as if they were a mere blip yet the 2002 -2006 seasons for Warner completely outweigh all of Warners accolades

 

Despite Young only starting 48% of the games played over the course of his career you don't even bring that up as a knock against him but you say Warner having only started 67% is not nearly enough

 

How can you say someone went into early retirement when they played 15 years

 

And I did not even bring up the things Warner has done that Young has not for instance, in his career Warner has attempted 19 or more passes in a game 92 times, of those 92 times he has been held to under 200 yds passing only 16 times while thowing for 250 yds or more 64 times.

 

So in games with at least 19 attempts Warner has topped 250 yds an amazing 71% of the time.

[Bill Swerski]

Despite all of Youngs accolades you say it was his Super Bowl win that clinched his first ballot induction, and you nearly completely discount Warners Super Bowl win and second Super Bowl appearnace

 

Show me where I "discounted" Warner's ring.

 

Despite Young not getting the starting gig on a lousy Tampa team you discount those 5 or 6 years as his days on those horrible Bucs teams as if they were a mere blip yet the 2002 -2006 seasons for Warner completely outweigh all of Warners accolades

 

1. Most QBs don't start in their rookie year. Warner wasn't a rookie in New York.

 

2. Young was in the NFL for 14 years and was considered an elite player for at least 7 of those. Warner is in his 11th year and has only played at an elite level for maybe 4 years. That's not a massive difference, but Young's total offensive output blows away Warner's. He has more passing yards and more passing TDs, not to mention rushing stats that would be a decent career for the average NFL halfback.

 

Despite Young only starting 48% of the games played over the course of his career you don't even bring that up as a knock against him but you say Warner having only started 67% is not nearly enough

 

Again, having to compete against Joe Montana for a starting job is a little different than having to compete with Matt Leinart and a rookie Eli Manning.

 

And it's a moot point anyway, because Young's combination of career passing and rushing stats (and his ring) clearly make him HOF-worthy. Warner has the accolades, but not the career numbers of a typical HOF QB.

 

How can you say someone went into early retirement when they played 15 years

 

Because he planned to play all of the 1999 season, not just Weeks 1-3.

 

And I did not even bring up the things Warner has done that Young has not for instance, in his career Warner has attempted 19 or more passes in a game 92 times, of those 92 times he has been held to under 200 yds passing only 16 times while thowing for 250 yds or more 64 times

 

Edited November 20, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[kingfish247]

And isn't it your subjective opinion that League MVP awards mean more than playing at a Pro Bowl level for greater than four years?

I don't believe this nor have I ever said one means more than the other. I think Monk was very deserving of his HOF nod and he was never an MVP and only made 3 Pro Bowls.

 

I think 2 (maybe 3 MVPs) is worth a lot when considering a player's HOF worthiness. I think if a player were to only play 3 years in the NFL yet was named NFL MVP 3 times, that player should be in. Most HOFers are never named league MVP but a player comes along and is MVP 3 times? 3 times in 3 years would be stuff of legend. I'm sure this view is not very popular but that's everyone's subjective opinion . But that's not what Warner has done and is doing nor is it the entire argument for his eventual HOF bid.

Or perhaps we need people more intelligent than Peter King and Paul Zimmerman on the HOF committee.

Like you or me ? PK and Dr. Z can eat a BOD, IMO. But the voters are the voters. I think though that generally they get things right. The selection process is not cut and dry so there's always going to be hits and misses. There's no official weighted formula for the criteria we're debating. But they generally get things right.

[Bill Swerski]

Like you or me ? PK and Dr. Z can eat a BOD, IMO. But the voters are the voters. I think though that generally they get things right. The selection process is not cut and dry so there's always going to be hits and misses. There's no official weighted formula for the criteria we're debating. But they generally get things right.

 

I lost faith in them after the way that they held Aikman's nuts. And, frankly, I think that a lot of the regulars at the Huddle would be an improvement.

 

Anyway, we can agree to disagree on this. I'd love to see Warner win a SB this year (as long as he doesn't play the Colts), as he's about as good a human being as you'll find these days.

[Jrick35]

Bill,

 

You asked this question earlier in this thread

How many HOF quarterbacks have spent a full HALF of their careers putting up below-average numbers or riding the pine?

 

I believe you provided us with at least one example later on in this same thread.

Young was in the NFL for 14 years and was considered an elite player for at least 7 of those.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Jrick35

[Bill Swerski]

Bill,

 

You asked this question earlier in this thread

 

 

I believe you provided us with at least one example later on in this same thread.

 

Yeah, it's certainly unusual for a player to spend half of his career as a backup and end up in Canton. Then again, comparing their accomplishments...

 

Steve Young: 33,124 passing yds, 4239 rushing yds, 275 TDs

 

Kurt Warner: 27,163 passing yds, 278 rushing yds, 175 TDs

 

... it's pretty obvious that Young was dominant enough over that 7-year period to merit eventual HOF induction based on his numbers alone. On the other hand, Warner's going to have to either rely heavily on his accolades or play at a high level for a couple more years, because his numbers currently aren't in the same tier as his peers.

[Jrick35]

Yeah, it's certainly unusual for a player to spend half of his career as a backup and end up in Canton. Then again, comparing their accomplishments...

 

Steve Young: 33,124 passing yds, 4239 rushing yds, 275 TDs

 

Kurt Warner: 27,163 passing yds, 278 rushing yds, 175 TDs

 

... it's pretty obvious that Young was dominant enough over that 7-year period to merit eventual HOF induction based on his numbers alone. On the other hand, Warner's going to have to either rely heavily on his accolades or play at a high level for a couple more years, because his numbers currently aren't in the same tier as his peers.

 

14 years compared to 10 years.

 

On a per year average their numbers are dead on except for the rushing yardage.

 

And Kurt has as many of the other accolades as Young in 4 less seasons.

 

Kurts 10 very much so compares to Youngs 14. And as I have pointed out Warner is not done playing yet.

 

You make some good points but you also tend to contradict your own arguments.

[Bill Swerski]

14 years compared to 10 years.

 

On a per year average their numbers are dead on

 

 

except for the rushing yardage.

 

 

And Kurt has as many of the other accolades as Young in 4 less seasons.

 

Kurts 10 very much so compares to Youngs 14. And as I have pointed out Warner is not done playing yet.

 

You make some good points but you also tend to contradict your own arguments.

 

Despite your straw man argument, I never said that a QB must play at a high level for X% of their time in the NFL to be considered a serious HOF candidate.

 

Your comparison of a pure pocket passer like Warner to a mobile West Coast QB like Young is silly. You completely downplay Young's rushing numbers, which put him in a league of his own. IIRC, Young is the only QB in the history of the league to pass for over 30,000 yds with a career completion percentage of 60%, and to also rush for 4,000 yds. Even if Warner plays at a high level for another season or two, he'll still fall about 40-50 TDs short of Young. Young also dominated for a longer period of time than Warner, as evidenced by his 7 Pro Bowls, vs. Warner's 3.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[kpholmes]

I think 2 (maybe 3 MVPs) is worth a lot when considering a player's HOF worthiness.

We are on the same page here.

 

I've read through some of the discussion so far, and see both sides to this argument. Is Warner one of the all time greats? No, probably not.

That being said however, I think it would be hard to keep someone out of Canton if they had two Superbowl appearances, a Superbowl win + MVP, and three league MVP titles, regardless of how the rest of their career looked.

[Seahawks21]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Despite your straw man argument, I never said that a QB must play at a high level for X% of their time in the NFL to be considered a serious HOF candidate.

 

Your comparison of a pure pocket passer like Warner to a mobile West Coast QB like Young is silly. You completely downplay Young's rushing numbers, which put him in a league of his own. IIRC, Young is the only QB in the history of the league to pass for over 30,000 yds with a career completion percentage of 60%, and to also rush for 4,000 yds. Even if Warner plays at a high level for another season or two, he'll still fall about 40-50 TDs short of Young. Young also dominated for a longer period of time than Warner, as evidenced by his 7 Pro Bowls, vs. Warner's 3.

Lol a few hours ago I re-read this whole thread looking for the post where Swerski tried to call out someone for their "straw man" argument. I was actually impressed that there wasn't one.

 

Swerski is right though. You cannot compare Young to just about anyone. He was a bit of an odd duck because he was such an accomplished runner and because he played with Jerry Rice for all of his career. Once could argue that Young's passing numbers are inflated. I believe that Young was great, but you just can't compare him to anyone at all.

 

You guys need to start talking apples and apples. Who are the best QB's that are not in the HOF? I'm probably too young to answer that. What is the list of MVP's that isn't in? I think I read somewhere that 11 of the 16 Super Bowl MVP QB's are in, which ones aren't? Is there any precedent for someone with his hardware not to make the HOF?? I've pretty much checked out of this debate, but if you guys want to start getting down to it, those are the particulars you'll want to find out and discuss. You guys are just going in circles at this point.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Seahawks21

[jaxfactor]

Call me crazy, but I think this weekend's game against the defending SB champs will determine just how far Warner and the Cards have come. This is a statement game, not only for Arizona's post season chances, but for Warner's MVP and HOF status. The atmosphere will be rockin' in the desert and I'll be watching that game with great enthusiasm. No offense to the Giants, but I'm hoping the Cards kick some ass as I'd love nothing more than to see this team finally make a statement and take some strides with a significant playoff run. I am a fan of Warner and am hoping he takes this team to the promised land(unless, of course he faces the Steelers) and wins a championship for the starving fans in Arizona. Hopefully he plays next year and can complete the task at hand. Then there will indeed be no doubt that he deserves a spot in the HOF.

[muck]

? = not voted on yet

IN = in

OUT = out

..................................

 

AP MVP Winners:

 

? 2007 Tom Brady

? 2006 Ladainian Tomlinson

? 2005 Shaun Alexander

? 2004 Peyton Manning

? / ? 2003 Peyton Manning & Steve Mcnair

? 2002 Rich Gannon

? 2001 Kurt Warner

? 2000 Marshall Faulk

? 1999 Kurt Warner

? 1998 Terrell Davis

IN / ? 1997 Barry Sanders & Brett Favre

? 1996 Brett Favre

? 1995 Brett Favre

IN 1994 Steve Young

IN 1993 Emmitt Smith

IN 1992 Steve Young

IN 1991 Thurman Thomas

IN 1990 Joe Montana

IN 1989 Joe Montana

OUT 1988 Boomer Esiason

IN 1987 John Elway

IN 1986 Lawrence Taylor

IN 1985 Marcus Allen

IN 1984 Dan Marino

OUT 1983 Joe Theismann

OUT 1982 Mark Moseley

OUT 1981 Ken Anderson

OUT 1980 Brian Sipe

IN 1979 Earl Campbell

IN 1978 Terry Bradshaw

IN 1977 Walter Payton

OUT 1976 Bert Jones

IN 1975 Fran Tarkenton

OUT 1974 Ken Stabler

IN 1973 O.J. Simpson

OUT 1972 Larry Brown

IN 1971 Alan Page

OUT 1970 John Brodie

OUT 1969 Roman Gabriel

IN 1968 Earl Morrall

IN 1967 Johnny Unitas

IN 1966 Bart Starr

IN 1965 Jim Brown

IN 1964 Johnny Unitas

IN 1963 Y.A. Tittle

IN 1962 Jimmy Taylor

IN 1961 Paul Hornung

IN / IN 1960 Norm Van Brocklin & Joe Schmidt

OUT 1959 Charley Conerly

IN 1958 Gino Marchetti

IN 1957 Jim Brown