Caveman_Nick Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 No, my confusion came from the fact that I didn't know that your mortgage payment had adjusted because of the ARM. I assume that by the time you tried to refinance you had already been bitten by the downturn in housing prices. That well and truly does suck. Unfortunately, that is also the gamble you take with ARMs. It's pretty much the same gamble you take at the craps table. You lay money out on the table hoping that the roll of the dice allows you to recoup the cash outlay before the dice come up craps. It seems like you gambled and lost. In principle I agree with this outlook... Here's my issue with this: If the Government just went and said "Any mortgages above X% interest are now at a frozen interest rate of that same X%. All mortgages are fixed. The banks will cry about the expense of processing this change. The simple fact is that this cry out is a lie, and that Banks have been offering REFI services at no cost for several years. If the govt's wanted to allocate a nominal processing dollar amount to the banks for every mortgage that had to be processed in this fashion, then fine. The situation or ARMS would be fixed in short order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) amusingly enough, I just got done filming a half-hour interview on the housing package for my local PBS affiliate (it will air on Wednesday). There are good things and bad things about the plan (and it certainly isn't the complete giveaway to irresponsible borrowers that some of you guys are making it out to be). Edited February 19, 2009 by wiegie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Look, if Obama's plan stabalizes housing prices we will be fine so there's hope. Other than getting a 3 year ARM in November of 2005 I'm not sure what mistake I made. Besides, I had seen an ARM work for me. I bought the house on a 2 year ARM in November of 2003 everything worked out fine so in 2005, we refinanced into the current mortgage, which was better than the first. Since November of 2005 we've paid off both cars and all student loans so we had been looking forward to refinancing. It was definitely sold to us as a deal where if we didn't do anything to screw our credit, we would be able to benefit while the lender still made a profit. And it worked once already for us. The 2008/2009 global economic meltdown was not included in the pitch back in October of 2005, I can assure you of that. And, BTW, when if I'd have had a 2 year ARM instead of the "safer" 3 year one I might have been able to avoid this by refinancing in November of 2007 instead of 2008. I think mostly I'm a victim of bad timing. But perch wants to tell me that everyone saw this coming in November 2005 so I should have seen this coming is complete BS. If everyone saw this coming 3 years ago, then why such a sudden emergency starting last fall? I wasn't even asking for any government help, until the government decided to keep my lender solvent. At that point, I have to say, my lender seems most complicit in any bad decisions that torpedoed my house's value, we've put a lot of money into the place too because we thought that was good use of our money. I really do understand it doesn't make sense for anyone to loan me money with the house as colateral given the value of the place but my ARM isn't what sunk the house's value. I don't know if Obama's plan is going to help me and the thousands of others that are apparently in the same boat I am but I can tell you what won't - $20.00 extra a ycheck in the form of a tax break. And if I have to buy $hit to help save the nation's economy it might behove someone to help me get back some of my discretionary (sp?) money. Obviously, I'm not going to be using my tax refund to do anything economically stimulating. The check will go in the safe deposit box uncashed in case we need the money for first and last month's rent somewhere. That's not going to stimulate much economy. Most importantly, wiegie, got a link for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Most importantly, wiegie, got a link for us? the program won't be available online (I checked before I told you guys about it--I'm not that much of a masochist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 But perch wants to tell me that everyone saw this coming in November 2005 so I should have seen this coming is complete BS. If everyone saw this coming 3 years ago, then why such a sudden emergency starting last fall? Anyone could tell we were due for a correction. I doubt that very many people could tell that the correction would be as big as it appears to be, I know I didn't think it would be. I'm not saying you messed up by not seeing into the future and knowing that things were going to turn so drastically. I think where you made your mistake is getting an ARM, and believing it was always going to adjust to be in your favor, or that interest rates wouldn't go up. That is just not a realistic expectation. BTW what is going on with your house? You don't live that far from me, and our housing market while down slightly isn't down near like yours. Are there other factors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) Anyone could tell we were due for a correction. I doubt that very many people could tell that the correction would be as big as it appears to be, I know I didn't think it would be. I'm not saying you messed up by not seeing into the future and knowing that things were going to turn so drastically. I think where you made your mistake is getting an ARM, and believing it was always going to adjust to be in your favor, or that interest rates wouldn't go up. That is just not a realistic expectation. BTW what is going on with your house? You don't live that far from me, and our housing market while down slightly isn't down near like yours. Are there other factors? Well I live within the Dallas city limits. In a nice middle class neigborhood with great schools, close to downtown, White Rock lake, the Arboretum, love field, equal distance from I-30, 635 and Central Expressway. Maybe a ton of people reached to get into this area and the whole area of town was probably exceptionaly overvalued. But I love my neighborhood. A ton of layoffs here, I don't know about Tyler, so maybe the down economy combine with some "deadbeats" reaching to get into the neighborhood has screwed the property value. I know two guys in my neighborhood who used to work at TI who were laid off and are selling their houses and looking at short sales whatever those are. Look, clearly a 30 year fixed is the route I should have gone but that's hindsight. A flucuation in interest rates againt my favor is what I thought I was risking, not this. It'll be OK. But I do somewhat resent the implication I bought a million dollar mansion I couldn't afford and now I want Obama to give it to me for free. Edited February 19, 2009 by Clubfoothead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 +1 to all of that except for one oddity. When I bought my home just over 10 years ago, it was roughly $11k less than what I was approved for, IIRC. And yet I could certainly have afforded more than that approval limit, which was considerably less than three times my salary. Damn glad I was conservative about it. I guess 10 years ago standards were a crapload higher than they are now. You must have had an extremely conservative lending institution. We recently qualified for a few hundred thousand more than we can comfortably afford. Maybe that's indicative of the changes in the industry over the last 10 years and a large part of why the mortgage crisis surfaced. It kills me that in today's economic problems, I still her radio adds for "Zero down, bad credit no problem" mortgages. I guess with DC bailing everybody out, they figure they've got nothing to lose. I think what's really going to seal our fate is that we're going along with events that are establishing bailouts as the norm. There are rumblings already for more TARP funds. Nobody is convinced the latest round of bailout money for GM and Chrysler will be the last time. More and more states and holding out their tin cups. CA and NY are nearly insolvent, KS is right behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 the program won't be available online (I checked before I told you guys about it--I'm not that much of a masochist) already back pedaling..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 already back pedaling..... huh? You are welcome to come over and watch it with me if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 You must have had an extremely conservative lending institution. We recently qualified for a few hundred thousand more than we can comfortably afford. Maybe that's indicative of the changes in the industry over the last 10 years and a large part of why the mortgage crisis surfaced. I just remembered - I absolutely had to have 10% down too - no ifs or buts. No 10%, no mortgage. At the time it seemed a tad onerous but long term it's been exactly right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 huh? You are welcome to come over and watch it with me if you want. dont threaten me with a good time!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The intelligence we had at the time said we needed to go into Iraq, as did Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Hilary Clinton, John Kerry, and most prominent Dems that saw the intelligence reports. "They" weren't privy to all of the intelligence reports in 2002, they took the Bush administration at face value on why we needed to expedite executive privilege on that particular instance. Regardless, when one makes 17643 posts in one month complaining about the costs of programs that are aimed at benefiting America; while not making one regarding the Iraqi welfare program in 7 years; their partisan motivation is explicitly apparent as much as their credibility is questionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 their partisan motivation is explicitly apparent as much as their credibility is questionable. Seriously dude? From you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 after trillions of dollars spent , i have yet to see one single plan that will benefit me . I'm current on my mortgage payments and that is my pitfall. Had I been an irresponsible homeowner , then the government would bail me out. More tax dollars of mine to help out others Exactly. God bless America. Hey maybe Obama can shove billions toward welfare too, that's worked so well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Hey maybe Obama can shove billions toward welfare too, that's worked so well no i think the ceo's and upper crust have enough to get them by for the next 10 thousand years or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Exactly. God bless America. Hey maybe Obama can shove billions toward welfare too, that's worked so well I don't think you're in any position to criticize profligate spending. At least this money is being spent here helping our people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I don't think you're in any position to criticize profligate spending. At least this money is being spent here helping our lazy, dumbass, crooked, stupid people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) I don't think you're in any position to criticize profligate spending. At least this money is being spent here helping our people. So basically your stance is hey we've thrown money away in the past, so why not throw more away now? At least in Iraq, our government got us into that situation, and it wasn't the act of irresponsible private individuals. You and me really had no say on whether or not we got into Iraq. Sure we elected officials, but we really had no say. There was no war application form that we signed. You and me do have a lot of say in whether or not we buy a house, and how much house we buy. Now unless you are wiling to admit that our government got us into the current situation, why is our government and our tax dollars responsible to get individuals out of it? Edited February 20, 2009 by Perchoutofwater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 So basically your stance is hey we've thrown money away in the past, so why not throw more away now? At least in Iraq, our government got us into that situation, and it wasn't the act of irresponsible individuals. You and me really had no say on whether or not we got into Iraq. Sure we elected officials, but we really had no say. You and me do have a lot of say in whether or not we buy a house, and how much house we buy. Now unless you are wiling to admit that our government got us into the current situation, why is our government and our tax dollars responsible to get individuals out of it? You can look at it as individuals if you like (and you've heard me rail about the morans that brought us here) but this seems to me like a whirlpool, sucking us all down with the morans. Therefore we need to put the bathplug in the hole and stop the whirlpool before we all drown, morans and sensible alike. That's one way of looking at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 You can look at it as individuals if you like (and you've heard me rail about the morans that brought us here) but this seems to me like a whirlpool, sucking us all down with the morans. Therefore we need to put the bathplug in the hole and stop the whirlpool before we all drown, morans and sensible alike. That's one way of looking at it. That is one way of looking at it and frankly a lot more mature than the well we threw tons of money at Iraq argument. My only problem with it is we are already well on our way to a welfare stare. Many feel that they have a right to this assistance. We all saw the idiots on TV prior to the election saying they were going to vote for Obama because they wouldn't have to pay for gas anymore. My problem is if you give an inch they take mile. If we bail people out now, then the same people and others will feel that they deserve it in the future. While I firmly believe if we didn't do this, the short term consequences would be very tough, and yes cause us all hardships, I think we would be better of in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 no i think the ceo's and upper crust have enough to get them by for the next 10 thousand years or so... Maybe corporations that get homeland security money can base themselves in our country instead of Kuwait and the Caymans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.