state of the union thread

[Perchoutofwater]

See thats where it all breaks down . . . the right say "we were never invited" while their actions have said "we will not participate.".

 

Put up or shut up time for the right. Either contribute, or you paint yourselves as self-serving douchebags that only care about teh next election cycle. There is a LOT that can be done to improve the current bill . . I wonder if any Republicans will have the courage to "break ranks" with the orders of the party and actually work against the aisle.

 

McCain was that kinda guy back in the day when he worked with Feingold (a VERY liberal guy) on campaign finance reform that was not endorsed by his party, but was best for the COUNTRY. I wonder if the right has anyone with that kind of moral strength anymore . . . .

 

This doenst absolve the left, as they usually turn on themselves versus worshipping a party . . which is why they never get anything done . . .their base is waaaay too broad and diverse.

 

There were at least 6 different proposals floated by various Republicans all of which were given no attention by Reid, Pelosi, and Obama. It sounds like you just want to have the Republicans get out of the way and give you what Obama wants, which would be a sell out as far as any conservative is concerned. You mention McCain, but what you praise him for, is the reason he didn't get elected. He had luke warm support from his base at best. The people like you from the left who claimed to like him when he was a thorn in Bush's side, abandoned him.

[driveby]

See thats where it all breaks down . . . the right say "we were never invited" while their actions have said "we will not participate.".

 

Put up or shut up time for the right. Either contribute, or you paint yourselves as self-serving douchebags that only care about teh next election cycle. There is a LOT that can be done to improve the current bill .

 

Does this count as contributing?

[Perchoutofwater]

Does this count as contributing?

 

Don't forget Paul Ryan proposed yesterday, or what Judd Gregg proposed while Teddy was still pickling his liver or what he submitted in December.

[bpwallace49]

There were at least 6 different proposals floated by various Republicans all of which were given no attention by Reid, Pelosi, and Obama. It sounds like you just want to have the Republicans get out of the way and give you what Obama wants, which would be a sell out as far as any conservative is concerned. You mention McCain, but what you praise him for, is the reason he didn't get elected. He had luke warm support from his base at best. The people like you from the left who claimed to like him when he was a thorn in Bush's side, abandoned him.

 

Perch that isnt it AT ALL.

 

Why does it have to only be one or the other? Why cant the right WORK WITH the left and vice versa? This is where the train always goes off the tracks Simply proposing a plan that is ONLY from your party is why the current bill has so many problems!! the Paul Ryan plan has a LOT of merit (as I have gone on record REPEATEDLY supporting) but it should never come down to a selcetion of the current bill or the Ryan plan.

 

WORK TOGTHER AND INTEGRATE THE PROPOSALS. That means BOTH sides have to give a little ground in favor of the overall goal getting reform accomplished. Considering both parties in Congress only care about "gotcha" moments and acting like petulant children means it will never happen.

 

McCain swung far right to try and get elected. The fact is that ANYONE that breaks ranks . .. even once . . with the party machine of the right has zero electability for higher office. You said it yourself Perch . . doing what was "right" and working with a Democrat is why he didnt get elected.

[bpwallace49]

Don't forget Paul Ryan proposed yesterday, or what Judd Gregg proposed while Teddy was still pickling his liver or what he submitted in December.

 

Hoply Christ you guys DO only think it is one or the other . . . dont you? You have no concept of integrating the proposals or nominating amendments . . . . yikes.

[Ursa Majoris]

Teleprompter Of The United States

Ah. I thought it might be Totalitarian of the United States

[Perchoutofwater]

Hoply Christ you guys DO only think it is one or the other . . . dont you? You have no concept of integrating the proposals or nominating amendments . . . . yikes.

 

Hey as long as it doesn't have government providing health care, doesn't provide any additional coverage to illegals, and doesn't significantly increase the cost for those that already have it via premiums or taxes then I'd be all for it. If it is just a redistribution and expansion scheme that really does nothing to curb the expense I hope Republican continue to oppose it.

[Perchoutofwater]

Ah. I thought it might be Totalitarian of the United States

 

That would be fitting too, particularly when you consider the way he chastised the high court and anyone who dared to disagree with him in congress.

[Ursa Majoris]

There were at least 6 different proposals floated by various Republicans all of which were given no attention by Reid, Pelosi, and Obama. It sounds like you just want to have the Republicans get out of the way and give you what Obama wants, which would be a sell out as far as any conservative is concerned. You mention McCain, but what you praise him for, is the reason he didn't get elected. He had luke warm support from his base at best. The people like you from the left who claimed to like him when he was a thorn in Bush's side, abandoned him.

How come you get stuffed out of sight in an election then expect the incoming administration to govern like surrogate Republicans?

 

Most of these proposals submitted by Republicans are nothing more than decoys so that the Republicans can claim they've tried but Obama won't listen. In fact, most of the so-called proposals would never make it past an independent, never mind a Democrat. But that was always the intent.

[evil_gop_liars]

Does this count as contributing?

 

 

Is that what Rush said?

 

 

 

 

Welcome Back

[bpwallace49]

Most of these proposals submitted by Republicans are nothing more than decoys so that the Republicans can claim they've tried but Obama won't listen. In fact, most of the so-called proposals would never make it past an independent, never mind a Democrat. But that was always the intent.

 

Partisan gamesmanship at its finest . . . both parties do this as "look at me" moments for their electorate. case in point . . these proposals where never ever ever addressed or introduced over the last eight years.

 

Just like Obama said . . . bringing up health care isnt a smart thing to do politically, but it is the RIGHT thing to do . . .

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

That would be fitting too, particularly when you consider the way he chastised the high court and anyone who dared to disagree with him in congress.

 

3 co-equal branches of government. I thought you were on board with that whole pesky constitution thing. He has every right to stand up for his opinion and not be dominated by either of the other two branches. (And vice versa of course)

 

How many times have Republicans blasted Roe v. Wade? Are they out of line for doing so?

[bpwallace49]

How many times have Republicans blasted Roe v. Wade? Are they out of line for doing so?

 

 

That is a great point Perch . .

[Perchoutofwater]

How come you get stuffed out of sight in an election then expect the incoming administration to govern like surrogate Republicans?

 

Most of these proposals submitted by Republicans are nothing more than decoys so that the Republicans can claim they've tried but Obama won't listen. In fact, most of the so-called proposals would never make it past an independent, never mind a Democrat. But that was always the intent.

 

Ursa you can't very well expect any self respecting conservative to go for anything that increases the size and scope of government and the entitlement class. If yo want to talk about reforms yes, if you want to talk about redistribution and increasing the role of government then no, I don't expect you will find as single conservative willing to vote for that. Most learned their lesson with the medicare D debacle, which is why many moderates and fiscal conservatives were so disenchanted with Republicans in 2006.

[Perchoutofwater]

3 co-equal branches of government. I thought you were on board with that whole pesky constitution thing. He has every right to stand up for his opinion and not be dominated by either of the other two branches. (And vice versa of course)

 

Really didn't you have a problem with both Joe and Alito?

[Perchoutofwater]

3 co-equal branches of government. I thought you were on board with that whole pesky constitution thing. He has every right to stand up for his opinion and not be dominated by either of the other two branches. (And vice versa of course)

 

How many times have Republicans blasted Roe v. Wade? Are they out of line for doing so?

 

 

 

That is a great point Perch . .

 

What is the constitutional bases for Roe Vs Wade.

[Ursa Majoris]

Ursa you can't very well expect any self respecting conservative to go for anything that increases the size and scope of government and the entitlement class. If yo want to talk about reforms yes, if you want to talk about redistribution and increasing the role of government then no, I don't expect you will find as single conservative willing to vote for that. Most learned their lesson with the medicare D debacle, which is why many moderates and fiscal conservatives were so disenchanted with Republicans in 2006.

So, the point remains. You're in opposition and there are two roads open to you. One is complete resistance to everything, which is where the GOP is now (the party of NO). The other is to try to influence what goes through (bipartisanship).

 

The problem with the latter isn't so much that it would let through some things the GOP might not like. The problem as they see it is that Obama might get the credit. Their real problem is that by the time November rolls around, people may well have started to realize that obstructionism isn't an electable policy and the GOP may not get the landslide it seems to be expecting.

[detlef]

There were at least 6 different proposals floated by various Republicans all of which were given no attention by Reid, Pelosi, and Obama. It sounds like you just want to have the Republicans get out of the way and give you what Obama wants, which would be a sell out as far as any conservative is concerned. You mention McCain, but what you praise him for, is the reason he didn't get elected. He had luke warm support from his base at best. The people like you from the left who claimed to like him when he was a thorn in Bush's side, abandoned him.

I "abandoned" him because he abandoned himself. I liked him at first because of what he seemed to stand for and there's a damned good chance I would have voted for him had he not turned into a lap-dog to the current GOP (which, if you can remember way back to '08 was an embarrassment to anyone who actually held any traditional GOP values other than bible-thumping). Is there any doubt at all that he completely, 100% sold out when Palin was announced?

[Perchoutofwater]

So, the point remains. You're in opposition and there are two roads open to you. One is complete resistance to everything, which is where the GOP is now (the party of NO). The other is to try to influence what goes through (bipartisanship).

 

The problem with the latter isn't so much that it would let through some things the GOP might not like. The problem as they see it is that Obama might get the credit. Their real problem is that by the time November rolls around, people may well have started to realize that obstructionism isn't an electable policy and the GOP may not get the landslide it seems to be expecting.

 

I'm pretty sure you would find most republcians would vote for health care reform if it doesn't increase the size of government, increase the entitlement class, and actually does something to reduce the cost of coverage. There may be some die hards that are against covering illegals too.

[Duchess Jack]

I honestly believe that the rights plan is to say NO to everything. They want Obama to fail at all costs and the best way to do that is to vote NO on anything the left proposes. The first example of this is when the GOP went behind closed doors to make sure that they ALL voted NO to the stimulous bill. For many the vote didn't have anything to do with the bill itself - for many the 'no' vote was political. Congressman who had been open to the bill walked out of that meeting in lock step with their GOP colligues.

 

You have to wonder how much money is being wasted by making this take up so much time and review. Time for discussion and a good review is important, but these items have had nothing to do with time this is taking. How long has Congress been trying? How many people is this taking up time for? How many aides? How much time, effort and money are people investing in propaganda.

 

You'd think that if it was about money - we'd have gotten something done and have moved on to the next issue so additional real and needed changes could be made

[Perchoutofwater]

I "abandoned" him because he abandoned himself. I liked him at first because of what he seemed to stand for and there's a damned good chance I would have voted for him had he not turned into a lap-dog to the current GOP (which, if you can remember way back to '08 was an embarrassment to anyone who actually held any traditional GOP values other than bible-thumping). Is there any doubt at all that he completely, 100% sold out when Palin was announced?

 

I did not like the Palin pick at all. However I don't think picking her was a sale out, but that it was a strategic choice hoping to pick up the female vote that was pissed BHO beat Billary.

[Perchoutofwater]

I honestly believe that the rights plan is to say NO to everything. They want Obama to fail at all costs and the best way to do that is to vote NO on anything the left proposes. The first example of this is when the GOP went behind closed doors to make sure that they ALL voted NO to the stimulous bill. For many the vote didn't have anything to do with the bill itself - for many the 'no' vote was political. Congressman who had been open to the bill walked out of that meeting in lock step with their GOP colligues.

 

Yep, what were they thinking voting against a bill they weren't given time to read that was chop full of earmarks. Damn them!

[detlef]

I did not like the Palin pick at all. However I don't think picking her was a sale out, but that it was a strategic choice hoping to pick up the female vote that was pissed BHO beat Billary.

My point was simply that I can't, for the life of me, think that was McCain's idea at all. Nor can I imagine it was anything that he could ever have come to peace with. At least not the pre-2007 version of McCain. That dude was all business and the last person I can imagine would sign off on bringing on some goof-ball ditz from bum-frick nowhere.

[Duchess Jack]

I am a pro-life, pro-family fiscal conservative, an advocate of a strong defense, and yet Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and a few Washington leaders of the pro-life movement call me an unacceptable presidential candidate. They distort my pro- life positions and smear the reputations of my supporters.

 

Why? Because I don't pander to them, because I don't ascribe to their failed philosophy that money is our message. I believe in the cause of conservative reform. I believe that because we are right we will prevail in the battle of ideas, unspoiled by the taint of a corrupt campaign finance scheme that works against the very conservative reform of government that is the object of our labors.

[Perchoutofwater]

DJ,

 

You will find that most conservatives, even most christian conservatives of which I consider myself, well be all to glad when the good Lord takes Robertson, and were probably happier then most liberals when Falwell died. These guys are the Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson's of the Republican party, the only difference being most Republicans don't campaign with these guys.