state of the union thread

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I'm not talking about people suspected for planning something. I'm talking about someone caught in the act.

 

Fine, go through the whole trial thing. I guess I do get that to a point. Then send him/her to Allah.

[Ursa Majoris]

Justice Alito's "you lie" moment tonight.

This was an important moment. What did Obama say that wasn't true, according to Alito? I doubt he and the rest of the Famous Five will take kindly to being shellacked in public, living as they do in their ivory tower divorced from everything (not dissimilar to Congress).

 

IMO, Obama could have chosen his words more carefully - these five, especially Scalia, already have their own agenda and this is likely to make them even more likely to do what they can to execute it. Also, given that the decision is rooted in a constitutional question, how can any bill passed by Congress avoid being shot to pieces by the same five people?

 

While I liked the speech a lot, this particular part about putting together a bill is going to be extremely difficult to execute in practice. He'd have been better off leaving it out altogether.

[Ursa Majoris]

I like the sound of a spending freeze.

The Senate doesn't

 

Looks like he might get to use that veto......

[Perchoutofwater]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/27...mpares-reality/

 

From FoxNews...

 

nice work on trying to hide where your info came from, and worse, making it appear that it came from a non-partisan group like factcheck.org.

 

 

No surprise there . . . Zeke tends to be a one trick pony . . .

 

The facts are from the AP, Fox might have borrowed them (probably with permission) but none the less they did not create this. So I guess this puts a hole in your theory anytime something is said against Obama it is Fox News.

 

BP, I agree in large part to your response to the individual items listed, but would note you mentioned congress blocking stuff. Remember the Dems still have a hugh majority in both the house and the senate, and up until last week were fillibuster proof. Yes, some of this is congresses fault and will fail do to congress, but you have to remember which party controls congress, and who the head of that party is. I don't think you can just give Obama a free pass. If he fails to get the party he supposedly leads to come along, then that is his failure in leadership.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

This was an important moment. What did Obama say that wasn't true, according to Alito? I doubt he and the rest of the Famous Five will take kindly to being shellacked in public, living as they do in their ivory tower divorced from everything (not dissimilar to Congress).

 

IMO, Obama could have chosen his words more carefully - these five, especially Scalia, already have their own agenda and this is likely to make them even more likely to do what they can to execute it. Also, given that the decision is rooted in a constitutional question, how can any bill passed by Congress avoid being shot to pieces by the same five people?

 

While I liked the speech a lot, this particular part about putting together a bill is going to be extremely difficult to execute in practice. He'd have been better off leaving it out altogether.

 

More on Alito's "outburst".

[Perchoutofwater]

The Senate doesn't

 

Looks like he might get to use that veto......

 

I hope he does, but have real doubts he will.

[dmarc117]

More on Alito's "outburst".

 

 

i guess our chicago gun ban is getting lifted this year...............

 

 

oh and http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...ourt&st=cse

Edited January 28, 2010 by dmarc117

[Perchoutofwater]

More on Alito's "outburst".

 

Yes, he should have sat there and took his beating. Mouthing something at a President is is a breach of protocol and an "out burst" but a president lambasting the court in a SOTU address and every liberal nut job sitting around them standing up and applauding is perfectly acceptable.

[Ursa Majoris]

Yes, he should have sat there and took his beating. Mouthing something at a President is is a breach of protocol and an "out burst" but a president lambasting the court in a SOTU address and every liberal nut job sitting around them standing up and applauding is perfectly acceptable.

Again, what wasn't true?

[Perchoutofwater]

i guess our chicago gun ban is getting lifted this year...............

 

 

oh and http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...ourt&st=cse

 

 

Again, what wasn't true?

 

 

The NY Slimes link above spells it out for you, but here you go:

 

This time, Justice Alito shook his head as if to rebut the president’s characterization of the Citizens United decision, and seemed to mouth the words “not true.” Indeed, Mr. Obama’s description of the holding of the case was imprecise. He said the court had “reversed a century of law.”

 

The law that Congress enacted in the populist days of the early 20th century prohibited direct corporate contributions to political campaigns. That law was not at issue in the Citizens United case, and is still on the books.

[evil_gop_liars]

Again, what wasn't true?

 

Az will be along shortly to tell you that a foreign owned corporation that has American interests is no different than the NRA.

[evil_gop_liars]

O'Reilly viewers seemed to like it. Fox poll

[Ursa Majoris]

The NY Slimes link above spells it out for you, but here you go:

All of it:

 

The law that Congress enacted in the populist days of the early 20th century prohibited direct corporate contributions to political campaigns. That law was not at issue in the Citizens United case, and is still on the books. Rather, the court struck down a more complicated statute that barred corporations and unions from spending money directly from their treasuries — as opposed to their political action committees — on television advertising to urge a vote for or against a federal candidate in the period immediately before the election. It is true, though, that the majority wrote so broadly about corporate free speech rights as to call into question other limitations as well — although not necessarily the existing ban on direct contributions.

 

What Obama said was true - foreign and domestic corporations can spend whatever they like in support of or opposition to an election candidate. And for damn sure that money potentially can overwhelm all other money.

[Ursa Majoris]

O'Reilly viewers seemed to like it. Fox poll

[Perchoutofwater]

You know Obama only mentioned the Constitution twice. The first time was right at the beginning of the speech when he said

Our Constitution declares that from time to time the president shall give to Congress information about the state of our union.

The second time he mentioned the Constitution he said

We find unity in our incredible diversity, drawing on the promise enshrined in our Constitution, the notion that we're all created equal...

Apparently have wasn't any better of a Constitutional law professor than a president, as all men being created equal does not come from the Constitution, but the Declaration. Could you imagine the field day the press would had with the previous president had he made such a blunder. TOTUS needs to be taken to task for that one. Edited January 28, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[Yukon Cornelius]

You know Obama only mentioned the Constitution twice. The first time was right at the beginning of the speech when he said The second time he mentioned the Constitution he said Apparently have wasn't any better of a Constitutional law professor than a president, as all men being created equal does not come from the Constitution, but the Declaration. Could you imagine the field day the press would had with the previous president had he made such a blunder. TOTUS needs to be taken to task for that one.

that memo must have been caught up in the mail .

[cre8tiff]

that memo must have been caught up in the mail .

 

Fourteenth Amendment, perhaps?

[Ursa Majoris]

You know Obama only mentioned the Constitution twice. The first time was right at the beginning of the speech when he said The second time he mentioned the Constitution he said Apparently have wasn't any better of a Constitutional law professor than a president, as all men being created equal does not come from the Constitution, but the Declaration. Could you imagine the field day the press would had with the previous president had he made such a blunder. TOTUS needs to be taken to task for that one.

I'm afraid to ask, but what is TOTUS?

[Perchoutofwater]

I'm afraid to ask, but what is TOTUS?

 

Teleprompter Of The United States

[bpwallace49]

BP, I agree in large part to your response to the individual items listed, but would note you mentioned congress blocking stuff. Remember the Dems still have a hugh majority in both the house and the senate, and up until last week were fillibuster proof. Yes, some of this is congresses fault and will fail do to congress, but you have to remember which party controls congress, and who the head of that party is. I don't think you can just give Obama a free pass. If he fails to get the party he supposedly leads to come along, then that is his failure in leadership.

 

Perch, I agree and would like to clarify my comments. Obama has been leading from the sidelines, and letting Congress take the lead on crafting these bills. A lot what Obama campaigned on, he made the MASSIVE mistake of leaving the IMPLEMENTATION in the hands of Nancy pelosi, who has done a horrible job.

 

What Obama has done is try and reach across the aisle, and has offended some of his own party in doing so. The right has not taken up the challenge of getting the WORK done of reform. Instead of participating, they have capitulated. Anything bulled through with universal Republican obstructionist is BAD for the country, but GOOD for the Republican party in the next election cycle. I wonder if ANYONE in the Republican party has the courage to work with Obama to reform the health care bill. I really, really hope so . . . for everyone's sake.

 

At the same time Obama needs to take more of a hands-on approach, mainly through Biden, to get the Dems to put their issues aside and work together. I just hope (but history hasnt shown it wont work) that the right can put aside their partisan crap too and stop worrying about the next election, and more of what the country needs now . . .

 

Perch, do you thinka bill by one party ramrodding something though is GOOD for the country? The follow up is do you think one party refusing to participate in a cooperative effort is good or bad for the country? The left is not right for pushing this through without working together, and the right is not correct in refusing to do anything to help the legislative process in a cooperative manner.

[caddyman]

No surprise there . . . Zeke tends to be a one trick pony . . .

I guess you did not see it was an AP article...speaking of one trick ponies. You guys are a joke.

[bpwallace49]

Teleprompter Of The United States

 

Didnt the guy doing the rebuttal use a teleprompter?

[Perchoutofwater]

Didnt the guy doing the rebuttal use a teleprompter?

 

Last night he probably did. I don't think he did the last time he gave a speech to a bunch of middle school children, or the hundred before that.

[Perchoutofwater]

Perch, do you thinka bill by one party ramrodding something though is GOOD for the country? The follow up is do you think one party refusing to participate in a cooperative effort is good or bad for the country? The left is not right for pushing this through without working together, and the right is not correct in refusing to do anything to help the legislative process in a cooperative manner.

 

No, I think it is horrible for the country. I also think the fact that Obama not having a single Republican to the oval to discuss health care since last April makes his talk of wanting the be bipartisan, but for the mean old Republicans disingenuous.

[bpwallace49]

No, I think it is horrible for the country. I also think the fact that Obama not having a single Republican to the oval to discuss health care since last April makes his talk of wanting the be bipartisan, but for the mean old Republicans disingenuous.

 

See thats where it all breaks down . . . the right say "we were never invited" while their actions have said "we will not participate.".

 

Put up or shut up time for the right. Either contribute, or you paint yourselves as self-serving douchebags that only care about teh next election cycle. There is a LOT that can be done to improve the current bill . . I wonder if any Republicans will have the courage to "break ranks" with the orders of the party and actually work against the aisle.

 

McCain was that kinda guy back in the day when he worked with Feingold (a VERY liberal guy) on campaign finance reform that was not endorsed by his party, but was best for the COUNTRY. I wonder if the right has anyone with that kind of moral strength anymore . . . .

 

This doenst absolve the left, as they usually turn on themselves versus worshipping a party . . which is why they never get anything done . . .their base is waaaay too broad and diverse.