League member is throwing games for a high draft pick next year.

[Curt Dallas]

I’m having an issue in my hometown league that I’m not sure how to handle with out upsetting more than a few of the league members. This league is a keeper league where you are allowed to keep 2 players from the previous year at the draft position they were drafted in, for up to two years (a player would be on your roster for three total seasons). Next year will be the fourth year of the league and all the round one draft picks from the first ever league draft will be going back onto the draft board (i.e. AP, Chris Johnson, MJD, Moss, D. Williams, and a few others).

 

Our league champion from last year had AP on his roster to help carry him to the championship. This year he kept AP and drafted Big Ben and Sidney Rice in late rounds (9 and 10). After starting the year out 1-3 he traded away AP for a 1st round draft pick in next years draft, giving him two 1st round picks, and probably keeping Rice and Big Ben. Now it appears that he is intentionally going to try to loose for the rest of the season in an attempt to get a very high draft pick in next years draft in order to get AP or CJ to be his keepers. It's going to look strange when the league champ goes from first to last to very very good again.

 

While this move is not against our league rules to trade guys for future draft picks, I think it is unethical to try to loose, and I also think it will start a trend in the league where other members will stop playing and try to trade players away for draft picks. If that were to happen I think it would set the precedence so that half of the guys would be playing for the current season and half would be playing for next season, every season.

 

What should I do to stop this trend from occurring? Do you think there is anything I can do to stop the guy from loosing for the rest of the year?

 

My thinking is to propose a rule saying that future draft picks can’t be traded until after the season, but I don’t know what I could do to stop him from intentionally loosing the rest of his games. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[CowboysDiehard]

Rather than basing draft order on record, perhaps put the playoff and non playoff teams into two separate draws for draft position. That way tanking wouldn't guarantee you a #1 overall the following season (you could still be stuck with as high as #6, assuming a 12 team league with 6 playoff teams).

[lkirc]

I don't think there is anything you can do. As long as he is submitting a legal starting lineup, it really isn't up to you or the rest of the league who he starts. I don't see how limiting draft pick trades would help. He is tanking to make his own #1 more valuable. Not the one he traded for.

 

In a keeper league this is a viable strategy. I can't say it is the most ethical way to go about things, but it should work out pretty well for the guy. I have seen this happen in dynasty leagues and it is an accepted practice. He can manage his team any way he likes as long as he stays within your rules.

 

Your only option, and a wrong one IMO, would be to not invite him back because of this. i wouldn't worry abuot it unless the whole league starts complaining.

 

Are you the commish?

[Trojanmojo]

I don't think the answer is to not allow trading of future picks until after the season. Perhaps institute a $2-$5 per loss penalty for teams that lose. Or have a weighted or non-weighted lottery for the top draft picks ala the NBA. Perhaps a penalty for finishing last like buying beer for the draft.

[Curt Dallas]

I am not the commish for this league, but I'm the most active member. Our commish is pretty worthless, and can be very easily talked into things, so the guy doing this is convincing that commish that he's not throwing games, his team just sucks.

 

I like the idea of making the playoff teams, and non-playoff teams into seperate draft draws.

 

I'm sure it will work out great for the guy, but as a guy that likes to compete every season, this just seems wrong in my mind, and I would like to prevent this from happening. Kicking the guy out would have a very slim chance of happening. The money thing probably wouldn't work, the guy wouldn't care about paying one year, just to make more back next year.

 

Is there anyone in a keeper or dynasty league that has a rule to prevent teams from doing this?

[Big Country]

I'm confused.

 

Is his only transgression trading away Adrian peterson for a draft pick, or is he doing something else like starting backup NFL Qbs in lieu of a viable starter on his roster?

 

If all he has done is trade away Adrian Peterson, whom he could not keep anyway, for a draft pick, but otherwise is still starting valid lineups, seems like he is doing little more than utilizing a smart strategy in this league setup where he is maximizing his chances for next season after the slow start this season.

 

It is pretty standard in keeper/dynasty leagues (well, usually deeper keeper, not ones where you can only keep 2 players) for the teams that are not looking good this season to make trades to strengthen their position for future seasons, while teams that are strong in the current season may give up some long term value (ie draft picks) to boost their lineup for the current season and make a push for the title.

[lkirc]

Sorry to be harsh, but, if you aren't the commish, there isn't a whole lot you can do. Starting a controversy in the league because this guy is working the system would cause more damage than it is worth.

 

Just beat the guy this year and next year and it won't be seen as a viable strategy by others.....

[Curt Dallas]

Just beat the guy this year and next year and it won't be seen as a viable strategy by others.....

 

As much as I would love to do that, with such an advantage I'm not sure I could do that.

 

Our league does allow every member to propose rule changes, and this is the first time something like this has happened. I would like to propose something to prevent teams from throwing their entire season away.

 

This guy obviously (in my mind) had this planned all year, and traded away AP right after his week 4 bye. Week 4 is a little early to start giving up on the season.

[Big Country]

As much as I would love to do that, with such an advantage I'm not sure I could do that.

 

Our league does allow every member to propose rule changes, and this is the first time something like this has happened. I would like to propose something to prevent teams from throwing their entire season away.

 

This guy obviously (in my mind) had this planned all year, and traded away AP right after his week 4 bye. Week 4 is a little early to start giving up on the season.

 

 

Again I must ask is his only transgression trading away Adrian Petersn, whom he could not keep anyway, or is doing something else that makes you claim he is throwing games?

 

If all he has done is trade away AP, then he is playing the game smartly if he felt he was not likely to win it all this year, as he basically got something (a 1st round pick next year) for nothing (AP, whom he could not keep).

 

If he is also doing things like benching Peyton Manning to start Jake Delhomme, then perhaps you have an argument, otherwise, it seems like you might want to bone up on your keeper league strategy.

[lkirc]

As has been said earlier, this is an accepted strategy in deep keeper and dynasty leagues. I don't know if you need a rule to prevent it. It is not the easiest situation to legislate. The owner is doing the best thing for his team and managing for the long-term, while you use a short term approach. If i could win my league everyother year, I would be pretty satisfied with that.....

[mstrofpuppts]

its no different then Belichick dumping Moss or Seymour because he knows Pats wont keep them, better to get something while you can then risk not getting anything at all. this is just smart play especially if he's not doin so hot this year and this is the only blatant move he's doing.

[Curt Dallas]

His only OBVIOUS trangression is trading away AP, whom he could not keep. This is the guy that has placed in the top 3 guys in the league, every year I've played with him. His roster could clearly be better, but he refuses to pick up better players (which I know I can't make him do).

 

He has personally told me that he is intentionally loosing this year in order to get a high draft pick.

 

While I do see this as a viable keeper league strategy, and think it will work out great for the guy. I don't think anyone else in league would attempt something like this. The purpose of THIS keeper league was to keep the league together by having guys return every year becuase they had an interest in what players they would keep from year to year, not to have guys playing for the next year, before the season has developed. This league is with a lot of guys I grew up with, but have moved away from each other, and is way to keep in touch and have something in common to talk about. I think this guy is in it simply to bend the rules in his favor as a way to brag to the other guys about how much better he is at this hobby than everyone else.

 

I wasn't asking if this was a viable keeper league strategy, I was asking if anyone had keeper league/dynasty rules that prevented owners from taking actions like this. I would like to have a league that is competive for everyone every year, not half the guys one year and half the guys the next.

[mstrofpuppts]

it defeats the purpose to make rules to prevent people from using gamesmanship for the following year in a league where you have to worry about the following year.

 

your league opened the door for this when you formed a keeper league, I dont see the point in doing a keeper league if theres rules in place to keep me from playing logically but to each our own I guess,

[homebrewer]

I'm commish of our league and here's what we have done to prevent things like this.

 

The bottom 4 teams draw cards for the top 4 draft spots. This prevents anyone from gauranteeing themselves the #1 pick by tanking games.

We also penalize the lowest scoring team each wk. Low team each wk loses 1% of the total prize pool, which is about $15 after you add up league fees and player move monies.

 

We use the money collected from the low teams (usually about $200) and goto Hooters for a free night out.

 

Hope this helps.

[Big Country]

I don't know of any rules that would prevent this because this is the type of strategy that keeper leagues encourage, particulalry ones with limited term keepers where the kept players become available every X number of years.

 

Quite frankly, if Roth and Rice are his likely keepers, his team can't be that good.

 

But, if you want to regulate the owners and their strategies, some ideas:

1. No trading of future draft picks

2. No trading of kept players

3. League approval required on all trades

 

 

Really, the more I read your last reply, the more I get the feeling that you have not played in keeper leagues before (may be wrong, but some of the statements indicate this). You say "no one else in the league would attempt something like this", implying this is a bad thing. It is not, it is a smart thing and this owner is playing to win. You state he has been top 3 each of the previous seasons, and if he realizes he is not likely to be there this season, he is doing the smart thing and positioning himself to be there in the future, which is the purpose of a keeper league. He is in no way, shape or form "bending the rules in his favor".

 

Quite frankly, if all you are looking for is a friendly league to keep you all in contact, get rid of the keeper aspect which by definition adds an extra layer of strategy to the game and stick to a relatively basic redraft league. Then you get rid of all of these concerns you have of owners actually strategizing about how to maximize their teams potential over the duration of the league.

[Big Country]

Now, things to encourage teams to focus more on the current season -

 

Don;lt do a random draw as some have suggested, but rather, have a separate playoff bracket for the bottom X teams, where the winner of said bracket gets the #1 pick. You can then either draw for the other spots or assign them based on record.

 

So, if you have 12 teams and the top 6 make your main playoffs, have the bottom 6 go into a separate bracket and play for the pick.

 

 

Have weekly prizes that encourage always putting in a best lineup. Not necessarily just high score of the week, but you can do things such as a prize for the team that is lowest in the standings that gets a win, biggest margin of victory for a week, etc. Mix it up and have fun with it.

[mstrofpuppts]

non playoff team playoff for 1st pick would be fun, good call ^_^

[Chief Dick]

Now, things to encourage teams to focus more on the current season -

 

Don;lt do a random draw as some have suggested, but rather, have a separate playoff bracket for the bottom X teams, where the winner of said bracket gets the #1 pick. You can then either draw for the other spots or assign them based on record.

 

So, if you have 12 teams and the top 6 make your main playoffs, have the bottom 6 go into a separate bracket and play for the pick.

 

 

Have weekly prizes that encourage always putting in a best lineup. Not necessarily just high score of the week, but you can do things such as a prize for the team that is lowest in the standings that gets a win, biggest margin of victory for a week, etc. Mix it up and have fun with it.

 

Except this (and any other changes) would have to be implemented NEXT year, because you can't change the rules midstream just because one guy is using the rules to his advantage. (which is good strategy)

[Big Country]

Except this (and any other changes) would have to be implemented NEXT year, because you can't change the rules midstream just because one guy is using the rules to his advantage. (which is good strategy)

 

 

Hopefully that goes without saying, but suppose it is good to make it abundantly clear.

[Curt Dallas]

Big Country, you are a wise man. I have not played in a keeper league before and my thinking was that tanking for a season to have a stud team the next year was a strategy that no one in the league would implement. Although, it had crossed my mind that it was possible for someone to do it.

 

I do like the idea of having a "consolation" playoff for the #1 pick, at least make the guy work for it. I will propose that for next year we have this type of thing for the draft order. It does go without saying that I can't change the rules midstream on the guy. I guess I will just have to come up with a good drafting strategy for next year, and hope for the best.

 

These type of situations is why I subscribe to this website. Instead of making a big fuss in my league and upsetting the other members, I can bounce ideas around with you good folks, and get ideas that I wouldn't have thought of. Thank you all for your imput, and good luck (or bad luck ) with the rest of your season.

[flemingd]

It's the nature of a keeper/dynasty leagues - some donkey will decide he'd rather pack it in now and load up for next year WAY before he's actually eliminated. A few options come to mind if you're hellbent against it:

 

1. All owners not in the playoffs draw for draft position the following year.

2. Have more teams make playoff field. I'm in a 12 man league with 8 making the playoffs - it's nearly impossible to be eliminated more than a week or two before end of season.

3. Increase the money of the league. If there's a couple G at stake he's much less likely to pack it in after 1/3 of the season is complete. Job #1 is make the playoffs because you're just a Plaxico Burress away from winning the championship.

4. The first person to miss the playoffs gets 1st pick next year, not the worst record, then in order down to worst record, then playoff owners. This is my personal favorite since two keepers isn't enough to justify "I was worth last year I deserve first pick". Full blown dynasty, sure. 2 keepers, no.

[Eagle2003]

You are in a keeper league. The manager is planning for the future. He has 2 first round picks already, his odds are decent to get nice picks without throwing games. If this is the kind of thing you don't want to happen, don't have a keeper league.

[Big Country]

To reiterate, from the sounds of things, he is definitely not tanking the season.

 

From what you have said, he is still attempting to start his best possible lineup each week, he has merely decided that his team in its current state was unlikely to go far in the playoffs much less make it, so he moved a piece that was not part of the long term plan to gain an extra first round pick for next season, which is quite possibly a good move.

 

 

Now, if you want to use the rules, realize that he can only keep one of those first round picks the following year, as your rules state that owners must give up a pick equivalent to when the player was drafted, so, unless he manages to acquire an extra first round pick for the 2012 draft, he will only have one first round pick to use to protect one of these players.

[Curt Dallas]

To reiterate, from the sounds of things, he is definitely not tanking the season.

 

From what you have said, he is still attempting to start his best possible lineup each week, he has merely decided that his team in its current state was unlikely to go far in the playoffs much less make it, so he moved a piece that was not part of the long term plan to gain an extra first round pick for next season, which is quite possibly a good move.

 

 

Now, if you want to use the rules, realize that he can only keep one of those first round picks the following year, as your rules state that owners must give up a pick equivalent to when the player was drafted, so, unless he manages to acquire an extra first round pick for the 2012 draft, he will only have one first round pick to use to protect one of these players.

 

First he IS tanking the season because he told me he is tanking the season, and his actions reflect that.

 

His "best possible lineup" is a term I would use loosely. He has planned this from the beginning of the draft and through the season, so his lineup looks semi-ligit with a lot of risk/reward players. Guys that he could defend that they COULD have a big game, but probably won't. With a lineup filled with these guys, it has been turning out that one guy goes off, and the others don't, and he looses.

 

I never said it was a bad strategy or that he was dumb for trying it. The guys in the league are pretty whiney, and I can see many of them trying this same strategy. I was asking how to prevent this from becoming essentially two leagues with some guys playing for one year, and some playing for the next, with guys that want to play every year getting caught in the crossfire. That type of league is not one that I would want to play in, but thats my opinion.

 

The idea of the non-playoff teams playing for the #1 spot is the most appealing. I like the idea of a team that tanks having to work for the #1 pick, and having to take the gamble of possibly getting a 5th or 6th spot. Plus as the top teams are trying to make the playoffs, other teams will still be trying to make sure that they have a good team so that they can play for the #1 pick. This senerio is something I think the other guys in the league will agree on. Thank you all your imput.

[ITSxWILL]

if theres a cash prize he's taking himself out of contention i wouldnt be too pissed.