Defensive Player of the Year - Troy Polamalu

[kpholmes]

Willis is a an extremely productive inside LB, but no where near the play making difference maker, as many of the top pass rushing OLB.

 

Typical fantasy skewed response.

Your statement said Ware would be the first LB taken by any franchise, "and it isn't even close."

 

While I'll admit that the interior linebacker position is in a state of depreciation as a result of the 3-4 defense and flashy guys like Ware and Matthews that get the sacks - Willis is the last of a dying breed that many franchises would kill to have leading their defense. Sure, he isn't a dedicated sack-machine like Ware, but he'll make plays for you all over the field. The guy is a complete player that can cover, pass rush, and stop the run with the best of them. Last time I checked, "play making difference maker" wasn't measured by sacks and forced fumbles alone.

 

I'm just saying, I wouldn't be so hasty to say that every franchise would take Ware first by a mile. While the 3-4, Ware and his $16 million salary are "in" right now - Willis plays consistently at a Ray Lewis-esque level that most coaches would give anything to have, even in the age of pass-rushing linebackers.

Edited February 1, 2011 by kpholmes

[Menudo]

Back to the topic at hand. I wasn't sure if Polamalu would get the award, as he did miss two games late in the season. That said, he is deserving of this award. He made several game / changing plays in the clutch. Here are some examples that I remember from the season. Hee intercepted a pass at the 2 late in the game that prevented Buffalo from winning. He caused a fumble when he sacked quarterback Joe Flacco in Baltimore that set up the winning touchdown with 2:51 left. His interception for a touchdown in the second quarter Dec. 12 erased a 7-0 Cincinnati lead, and the Steelers went on to a 23-7 victory. This biggest impact that Polamalu showed is the Steelers record and defensive stats when he plays compared to when he doesn't.. They are quite simply a different team and defense when he plays. In every game they play, the first thing a head coach or defensive coordinator mentions is that they are preparing to deal with Polamalu. I'm obviously a homer, but, I think that Troy is definitely one of, if not the best defensive players in the NFL. I'm happy to see him get this recognition. :cheers:

 

I do agree that he, Harrison & Matthews would have all been deserving of the award.

[DallasMothership]

And if you want to break it down even further, the stats solidify my point even more

 

All 3 are OLB in the same 3-4 defensive scheme, so there isnt a position/scheme difference that skews the numbers here.

 

 

Harrison had 72 tackles, 28 assists, and 17 TFL

 

Ware had 56 tackles, 10 assists, and 22 TFL

 

clay had 54 tackles, 5 assists, and 16.5 TFL

 

 

Clay is inferior across the board in every key stat

So you claim that Ware is better because they play in the same system and Ware's stats are better, but when Pirates points out that Matthews is way better his first 2 years than Ware, then stats mean nothing and Matthews has overachieved? So when Ware's stats are better they are meaningful and prove he is better, but when Matthews stats are better they mean nothing?

But there is no mistake Ware would be the 1st LB taken and it isnt even close.

I'm pretty sure Matthews would be picked before Ware considering Matthews is 24 years old Ware is 29 years old. How many prime years does Matthews have left and how many does Ware have left? I'm not saying Matthews is necessarily better, but they are close in performance so an extra 5 years of prime years makes this decision not even close.

Do you have a clue how many players over the years excelled one or two years then fell off the face of the earth. You act like its never happened.

 

Mark Rypien was a top QB for a few years, even won a Super bowl. But he isnt elite. rodgers isnt either yet

You're going to compare a dominant defensive player that is playing as well as anyone right now to a slightly better than average QB? Rypien could throw an excellant deep pass, but was horrible on the shorter routes. He is the poster boy of the type of QB that could play in the 80's long ball era but couldn't hack it in the 90's West Coast Offense short pass era. Moreover, many qb's have a good year or two statistically and then drop off, but how many linebackers do? If there are so many players that drop off after two years, give one example of a linebacker who is as good as Matthews his first two years and then seriously dropped off. Even if you can come up with one example, which I doubt you can, it will probably be due to injury. Injury is the only thing I think that could prevent Matthews from making the HOF.

 

And Rodgers isn't elite? Are you serious? He hasn't played long enough to be considered for the HOF, but who is playing better? Brady maybe. Being "elite" has to do with how you're playing now and how can you consider someone who is a top 5 qb and maybe top 3 qb not "elite"? Sounds to me like you're arguing from emotion and not reason. Like Matthews, injury is the only thing that could keep Rodgers from the HOF.

 

I don't know who is the best defensive player in the NFL. I'd give a tie to Polamalu, Harrison, Ware, Matthews and probably a few others we aren't mentioning. Maybe a few defensive linemen like Peppers should be included. All are huge impact players that take the focus of the offense and allow the other players on the defense make plays. To say Matthews isn't in this category is ridiculous. He puts pressure on the qb on almost every pass play. His motor never stops. He is probably the most energetic, consistent pass rusher in the game. Not sure how you can be so confidant that anyone is clearly better than him.

[Dont Rookie Me........]

Im surprised so many people think he got robbed...really? Polamalu was not deserving at all?

[bostonsoxandy]

Between this catfight with Livinthedream and piratesownninjas....i think livinthedream has a point-post-season doesn't count for regular season awards, and didnt clay do roids or something as well?

[theprofessor]

So you claim that Ware is better because they play in the same system and Ware's stats are better, but when Pirates points out that Matthews is way better his first 2 years than Ware, then stats mean nothing and Matthews has overachieved? So when Ware's stats are better they are meaningful and prove he is better, but when Matthews stats are better they mean nothing?

 

I'm pretty sure Matthews would be picked before Ware considering Matthews is 24 years old Ware is 29 years old. How many prime years does Matthews have left and how many does Ware have left? I'm not saying Matthews is necessarily better, but they are close in performance so an extra 5 years of prime years makes this decision not even close.

 

You're going to compare a dominant defensive player that is playing as well as anyone right now to a slightly better than average QB? Rypien could throw an excellant deep pass, but was horrible on the shorter routes. He is the poster boy of the type of QB that could play in the 80's long ball era but couldn't hack it in the 90's West Coast Offense short pass era. Moreover, many qb's have a good year or two statistically and then drop off, but how many linebackers do? If there are so many players that drop off after two years, give one example of a linebacker who is as good as Matthews his first two years and then seriously dropped off. Even if you can come up with one example, which I doubt you can, it will probably be due to injury. Injury is the only thing I think that could prevent Matthews from making the HOF.

 

And Rodgers isn't elite? Are you serious? He hasn't played long enough to be considered for the HOF, but who is playing better? Brady maybe. Being "elite" has to do with how you're playing now and how can you consider someone who is a top 5 qb and maybe top 3 qb not "elite"? Sounds to me like you're arguing from emotion and not reason. Like Matthews, injury is the only thing that could keep Rodgers from the HOF.

 

 

I don't know who is the best defensive player in the NFL. I'd give a tie to Polamalu, Harrison, Ware, Matthews and probably a few others we aren't mentioning. Maybe a few defensive linemen like Peppers should be included. All are huge impact players that take the focus of the offense and allow the other players on the defense make plays. To say Matthews isn't in this category is ridiculous. He puts pressure on the qb on almost every pass play. His motor never stops. He is probably the most energetic, consistent pass rusher in the game. Not sure how you can be so confidant that anyone is clearly better than him.

Finally, the "real" voice of reason

[Living the Dream]

So you claim that Ware is better because they play in the same system and Ware's stats are better, but when Pirates points out that Matthews is way better his first 2 years than Ware, then stats mean nothing and Matthews has overachieved? So when Ware's stats are better they are meaningful and prove he is better, but when Matthews stats are better they mean nothing?

 

I'm pretty sure Matthews would be picked before Ware considering Matthews is 24 years old Ware is 29 years old. How many prime years does Matthews have left and how many does Ware have left? I'm not saying Matthews is necessarily better, but they are close in performance so an extra 5 years of prime years makes this decision not even close.

 

You're going to compare a dominant defensive player that is playing as well as anyone right now to a slightly better than average QB? Rypien could throw an excellant deep pass, but was horrible on the shorter routes. He is the poster boy of the type of QB that could play in the 80's long ball era but couldn't hack it in the 90's West Coast Offense short pass era. Moreover, many qb's have a good year or two statistically and then drop off, but how many linebackers do? If there are so many players that drop off after two years, give one example of a linebacker who is as good as Matthews his first two years and then seriously dropped off. Even if you can come up with one example, which I doubt you can, it will probably be due to injury. Injury is the only thing I think that could prevent Matthews from making the HOF.

 

And Rodgers isn't elite? Are you serious? He hasn't played long enough to be considered for the HOF, but who is playing better? Brady maybe. Being "elite" has to do with how you're playing now and how can you consider someone who is a top 5 qb and maybe top 3 qb not "elite"? Sounds to me like you're arguing from emotion and not reason. Like Matthews, injury is the only thing that could keep Rodgers from the HOF.

 

I don't know who is the best defensive player in the NFL. I'd give a tie to Polamalu, Harrison, Ware, Matthews and probably a few others we aren't mentioning. Maybe a few defensive linemen like Peppers should be included. All are huge impact players that take the focus of the offense and allow the other players on the defense make plays. To say Matthews isn't in this category is ridiculous. He puts pressure on the qb on almost every pass play. His motor never stops. He is probably the most energetic, consistent pass rusher in the game. Not sure how you can be so confidant that anyone is clearly better than him.

 

Ware is 4 yrs younger than Matthews, but lets not let facts get in the way of your point.

Ware is 28, Matthews is 24. Matthews will be 25 before Ware will be 29

 

 

 

Sam Bradford put up bigger numbers than Rodgers did his rookie and 2nd year, does that make him better.

 

Are you saying Bradford would be picked before Rodgers because he is 4 yrs younger as well?

 

My point is Packer fans annoint their players as elite before they have proven anything but stats to date. If Rodgers plays again like he did vs Chicago, and GB loses, he would have had 2 strong playoff games vs weaker defenses and 2 avg to poor games vs very good defenses, is he still considered elite other than fantasy. . Matthews past shows he is an over achiever.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/playe...9/clay-matthews

 

 

 

And for the record I said Ware and Harrison put up bigger stats this yr, proving Matthews didnt deserve the DPOY award this yr over them. I didnt bring up their 1st 2 seasons, as situations dictate how much playing time, and stats you have early on. ala Rodgers vs Bradford. Instead I brought up the body of work of both players, and Matthews isnt in Wares zip code.

 

And I brought up another Packer pass rusher, KGB already. Guess you didnt read the whole post. Im sure there are many other defensive players that had great production in a 2 yr period and fell off later.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Living the Dream

[bpwallace49]

 

 

Having watched a lot of Green Bay games, the amount of times that Matthews gets double teamed and the Packers only rush 3 and he STILL gets a pressure/sack was very impressive.

 

Polumalu is a hell of a player, and very deserving of the award. He and Clay are both impact playmakers, and Matthews will get his due very soon. He is a young player who will only be better when they team isnt starting a 4th string OLB opposite him next year.

[DallasMothership]

If Rodgers plays again like he did vs Chicago, and GB loses, he would have had 2 strong playoff games vs weaker defenses and 2 avg to poor games vs very good defenses, is he still considered elite other than fantasy.

Atlanta is hardly a weak defense. They were 5th in the league in least points given up and had the 7th most takeaways. Philly's defense didn't play as well as most thought they would and were 21st in the league in points given up, though had the 5th most takeaways. So maybe Philly could be considered an average defense, but certainly not Atlanta.

 

Rodgers has 8 touchdowns, 2 picks, 790 passing yards, completed 71% of his passes, and has a 109.2 passer rating in this year's playoffs. Pretty stellar considering it's against 2 elite defenses and 1 average defense in 3 road games.

Ware is 4 yrs younger than Matthews, but lets not let facts get in the way of your point.

Ware is 28, Matthews is 24. Matthews will be 25 before Ware will be 29

Okay, so he's 3.8 years younger. Still enough more prime years to make Matthews the clear choice considering how close in talent they are. Ware will be 29 when the 2011 season begins. That's no spring chicken. NFL football takes a toll on the body. Hard to be confident that any player will keep producing into their 30's. Though I know of two players who has some of the best longevity in the history of the NFL. Clay's father and uncle Bruce played until they were both 40 years old. Bruce Matthews played at an elite level the whole way and Clay Jr. played at an elite level until at least 36 years old. So maybe longevity is in the Matthews genes.

Sam Bradford put up bigger numbers than Rodgers did his rookie and 2nd year, does that make him better.

I never said he who puts up bigger numbers is better. You did when you said Ware is better than Matthews this year because his numbers were better. Again you're stretching an analogy to the point it makes no sense especially considering Rodgers was on the bench so it's impossible to know how good he was. All I said is that when a defensive player is awesome their first two years, they stay awesome unless the injury bug hits.

Are you saying Bradford would be picked before Rodgers because he is 4 yrs younger as well?

Rodgers has proven himself to be elite whereas Bradford has only shown he might become elite. So I think Rodgers gets the nod. But I think both Bradford and Matt Ryan would be selected in the top 5 if a draft were held today. Choosing between young potential and HOFers like Brady, Manning, and Brees would be difficult. Personally, I'd take Rodgers and Rivers as the top 2 since they are elite but still pretty young. But Brady, Manning and Brees could all have 5 or more elite seasons left, so it'd be a tough call when choosing them against Bradford or Ryan.

And I brought up another Packer pass rusher, KGB already. Guess you didnt read the whole post. Im sure there are many other defensive players that had great production in a 2 yr period and fell off later.

I read the whole post. KGB was a horrible example. KGB had 4 consecutive double digit sack seasons. How is that a 2 year period? He also had 9.5 sacks when he was 30 years old after two "average" years of 8 and 6 sacks. And yes, he did fall off the face of the earth at age 31, but is still the Packers all-time sack leader. Let's hope Ware doesn't drop off the face of the earth after his 30th birthday!

 

So you can't come up with one linebacker who was awesome his first two years and then dropped off significantly despite there being so many who drop off all the time? KGB and Mark Rypien are the best examples you can come up with?

Matthews past shows he is an over achiever.

You keep saying this. Why is being an overachiever bad? Us Cowboy fans better hope he doesn't keep overachieving. Might be awhile til we return to the Super Bowl if he does................

[tazinib1]

Atlanta is hardly a weak defense. They were 5th in the league in least points given up and had the 7th most takeaways. Philly's defense didn't play as well as most thought they would and were 21st in the league in points given up, though had the 5th most takeaways. So maybe Philly could be considered an average defense, but certainly not Atlanta.

 

Rodgers has 8 touchdowns, 2 picks, 790 passing yards, completed 71% of his passes, and has a 109.2 passer rating in this year's playoffs. Pretty stellar considering it's against 2 elite defenses and 1 average defense in 3 road games.

 

Okay, so he's 3.8 years younger. Still enough more prime years to make Matthews the clear choice considering how close in talent they are. Ware will be 29 when the 2011 season begins. That's no spring chicken. NFL football takes a toll on the body. Hard to be confident that any player will keep producing into their 30's. Though I know of two players who has some of the best longevity in the history of the NFL. Clay's father and uncle Bruce played until they were both 40 years old. Bruce Matthews played at an elite level the whole way and Clay Jr. played at an elite level until at least 36 years old. So maybe longevity is in the Matthews genes.

 

I never said he who puts up bigger numbers is better. You did when you said Ware is better than Matthews this year because his numbers were better. Again you're stretching an analogy to the point it makes no sense especially considering Rodgers was on the bench so it's impossible to know how good he was. All I said is that when a defensive player is awesome their first two years, they stay awesome unless the injury bug hits.

 

Rodgers has proven himself to be elite whereas Bradford has only shown he might become elite. So I think Rodgers gets the nod. But I think both Bradford and Matt Ryan would be selected in the top 5 if a draft were held today. Choosing between young potential and HOFers like Brady, Manning, and Brees would be difficult. Personally, I'd take Rodgers and Rivers as the top 2 since they are elite but still pretty young. But Brady, Manning and Brees could all have 5 or more elite seasons left, so it'd be a tough call when choosing them against Bradford or Ryan.

 

I read the whole post. KGB was a horrible example. KGB had 4 consecutive double digit sack seasons. How is that a 2 year period? He also had 9.5 sacks when he was 30 years old after two "average" years of 8 and 6 sacks. And yes, he did fall off the face of the earth at age 31, but is still the Packers all-time sack leader. Let's hope Ware doesn't drop off the face of the earth after his 30th birthday!

 

So you can't come up with one linebacker who was awesome his first two years and then dropped off significantly despite there being so many who drop off all the time? KGB and Mark Rypien are the best examples you can come up with?

 

You keep saying this. Why is being an overachiever bad? Us Cowboy fans better hope he doesn't keep overachieving. Might be awhile til we return to the Super Bowl if he does................

 

 

Powned by a nOOb....

[Living the Dream]

Atlanta is hardly a weak defense. They were 5th in the league in least points given up and had the 7th most takeaways. Philly's defense didn't play as well as most thought they would and were 21st in the league in points given up, though had the 5th most takeaways. So maybe Philly could be considered an average defense, but certainly not Atlanta.

 

Rodgers has 8 touchdowns, 2 picks, 790 passing yards, completed 71% of his passes, and has a 109.2 passer rating in this year's playoffs. Pretty stellar considering it's against 2 elite defenses and 1 average defense in 3 road games.

 

Okay, so he's 3.8 years younger. Still enough more prime years to make Matthews the clear choice considering how close in talent they are. Ware will be 29 when the 2011 season begins. That's no spring chicken. NFL football takes a toll on the body. Hard to be confident that any player will keep producing into their 30's. Though I know of two players who has some of the best longevity in the history of the NFL. Clay's father and uncle Bruce played until they were both 40 years old. Bruce Matthews played at an elite level the whole way and Clay Jr. played at an elite level until at least 36 years old. So maybe longevity is in the Matthews genes.

 

I never said he who puts up bigger numbers is better. You did when you said Ware is better than Matthews this year because his numbers were better. Again you're stretching an analogy to the point it makes no sense especially considering Rodgers was on the bench so it's impossible to know how good he was. All I said is that when a defensive player is awesome their first two years, they stay awesome unless the injury bug hits.

 

Rodgers has proven himself to be elite whereas Bradford has only shown he might become elite. So I think Rodgers gets the nod. But I think both Bradford and Matt Ryan would be selected in the top 5 if a draft were held today. Choosing between young potential and HOFers like Brady, Manning, and Brees would be difficult. Personally, I'd take Rodgers and Rivers as the top 2 since they are elite but still pretty young. But Brady, Manning and Brees could all have 5 or more elite seasons left, so it'd be a tough call when choosing them against Bradford or Ryan.

 

I read the whole post. KGB was a horrible example. KGB had 4 consecutive double digit sack seasons. How is that a 2 year period? He also had 9.5 sacks when he was 30 years old after two "average" years of 8 and 6 sacks. And yes, he did fall off the face of the earth at age 31, but is still the Packers all-time sack leader. Let's hope Ware doesn't drop off the face of the earth after his 30th birthday!

 

So you can't come up with one linebacker who was awesome his first two years and then dropped off significantly despite there being so many who drop off all the time? KGB and Mark Rypien are the best examples you can come up with?

 

You keep saying this. Why is being an overachiever bad? Us Cowboy fans better hope he doesn't keep overachieving. Might be awhile til we return to the Super Bowl if he does................

 

 

The Atlanta defense was on the field 38+ minutes of that game because the ATL offense kept giving the ball back to GB with 4 turnovers. No defense is going to be very effective with 4 short fields, and the offense not being able to sustain drives.

 

 

First of all my point on KGB is he was never considered elite by any standard, and he had double digit sacks a few times. So just because Matthews has twice doesnt make him elite either. So the greatest Packer pass rusher ever isnt even considered elite, yet Matthews in 2 seasons who hasnt even accomplished what KGB has is already elite. REALLY ?

 

The QB analogy of Bradford and Rodgers was 2 fold. First because of the first 2 years in the league POS is saying Matthews is better because he had more sacks. and now this makes him equal to Ware. Rodgers didnt play his first 2 seasons, and Bradford was one of the best rookie QBs ever, and Im still not saying Bradford is better than Rodgers right now. And second you bring up the age angle of these 2 LBs, yet the age of each player is the same age gap between Ware and Matthews, yet you are not saying Bradford would be selected higher than Rodgers, where you say its a fact Matthews would be.

 

Im sure I could come up with LBs if I looked into it, I didnt. I came up with players who put up big numbers who proved to be nothing more than avg, and after it panned out, were not considered elite, like so many want to do with these 2 packers.

 

Matthews was a walk on at SC, didnt even see the field for 4 years. His own dad wouldnt play him in HIgh School, and he gets drafted in round 1, and has his best seasons EVER in his life for GB. Yea, I think that is over achieving, considering his past. Also a great secondary which GB has is a huge advantage for a pass rusher, as the QB holds onto the ball much longer than say a piss poor secondary where the receiver is always open., The fact Matthews can just rush virtually every play, the odds are he is going to get to the QB at some point. If dallas secondary was better, Ware may have half a dozen more sacks every year. So I think the defense around Matthews is making him look alot better than he is. And when Woodson is gone, and the secondary isnt as strong as it is now, Matthews production slips to avg.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Living the Dream

[piratesownninjas]

The QB analogy of Bradford and Rodgers was 2 fold. First because of the first 2 years in the league POS is saying Matthews is better because he had more sacks. and now this makes him equal to Ware. Rodgers didnt play his first 2 seasons, and Bradford was one of the best rookie QBs ever, and Im still not saying Bradford is better than Rodgers right now. And second you bring up the age angle of these 2 LBs, yet the age of each player is the same age gap between Ware and Matthews, yet you are not saying Bradford would be selected higher than Rodgers, where you say its a fact Matthews would be.

Reading comprehension? I never said either was better, genius. I've said multiple times that both are elite. You're the one trying to say Matthews isn't good. The stupidity that comes from your posts is reaching an all time high.

[piratesownninjas]

And what happens when matthews puts up 10+ sacks next year? Is he still over achieving? Or does he still suck because he's a packer?

[tosberg34]

Living In a Dream is getting OWNED big-time in this thread. That's just beautiful, man.

 

Let's keep the thread going because this is fun!. Reading LIADs posts is like watching a plane crash into a trainwreck.

 

[Living the Dream]

And what happens when matthews puts up 10+ sacks next year? Is he still over achieving? Or does he still suck because he's a packer?

 

 

WOW, finally.

[Living the Dream]

Living In a Dream is getting OWNED big-time in this thread. That's just beautiful, man.

 

Let's keep the thread going because this is fun!. Reading LIADs posts is like watching a plane crash into a trainwreck.

 

 

LOL, You wish.....

 

Denial is a funny thing. Hopefully the Packer masses figure it out soon. Id hate to see the crash and burn again around here, like what happened after the NYG win in GB in that NFC Champ game.

[keggerz]

Temporarily interupt this pissing match to add a few more stats for those that don't have access to them:

 

QB Hits(among ALL positions):l Cameron Wake was 1st with 21

Harrison 15 (tied for 5th)

Matthews 11 (tied for 11th)

Ware 8 (tied for 31st)

 

QB Pressures (among ALL positions): Charles Johnson was 1st with 58

Ware: 56 (3rd)

Matthews: 36 (tied for 14th)

Harrison: 32 (20th)

Wake: 29 (23rd) just for those that were curious is all

[tosberg34]

LOL, You wish.....

 

Denial is a funny thing. Hopefully the Packer masses figure it out soon. Id hate to see the crash and burn again around here, like what happened after the NYG win in GB in that NFC Champ game.

 

Funny. A Cowboy fan talking about crashing and burning.

Edited February 2, 2011 by tosberg34

[Living the Dream]

Funny. A Cowboy fan talking about crashing and burning.

 

 

a realist Cowboy fan that wasnt surprised with the crash and burn of our season. I wanted Wade gone last yr.

Something tells me you will be surprised and in denial when it happens sunday...

[bostonsoxandy]

Living the Dream,

 

sometimes its best to just concede. DallasMothership just went up into your house and demolished you. If you still think Matthews isn't one of the best OLB's-if not THE best-in the league you have some serious problems.

 

Sincerly,

the truth

[tosberg34]

a realist Cowboy fan that wasnt surprised with the crash and burn of our season. I wanted Wade gone last yr.

Something tells me you will be surprised and in denial when it happens sunday...

 

Well, I guess if ANYONE would know about denial, it sure would be you. You seem to have a lock on it.

[Living the Dream]

Living the Dream,

 

sometimes its best to just concede. DallasMothership just went up into your house and demolished you. If you still think Matthews isn't one of the best OLB's-if not THE best-in the league you have some serious problems.

 

Sincerly,

the truth

 

 

You obviously didnt read my posts. I never said he wasnt one of the best, I said he wasnt the best. I said he wasnt elite, yet. And I said Ware is better, and I said he didnt deserve to be the DPOY, and he wasnt. And I still think he is an over achiever at this point. People dont just all of a sudden learn to play the game at 23 , when they had been playing his whole life, growing up in a football family. He didnt even start for his dad in HS, and 5 years in college, he started one.

 

And I wish I would have thought that as a username. The Truth.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Living the Dream

[Living the Dream]

Well, I guess if ANYONE would know about denial, it sure would be you. You seem to have a lock on it.

 

Denial about what. Crowning their ass before they earned it. I'm not in denial. If they win, I will give them their due.

 

 

But if they crash and burn, ill get nothing but excuses from a handful of you guys.

 

And Im fully aware Dallas isnt elite at the moment. But Packer fans refuse to acknowledge 2 missed FG by Akers and they are not oout of the 1st round again this yr. hell I hope GB isnt as cocky as their fans when they take the field, cause they looked ordinary against Chicago, and Roeth isnt Cutler and the 3rd stringer who is going to give the game away.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Living the Dream

[Big John]

And I wish I would have thought that as a username. The Truth.

Already taken

Edited February 2, 2011 by Big John

[gilthorp]

Denial about what. Crowing their ass before they earned it. I'm not in denial. If they win, I will make up a ton of excuses for why the other team underperformed and lost. That's my standard MO.

 

 

But if they crash and burn, ill get nothing but excuses from a handful of you guys.

 

Fixed