wiegie Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I can't tell you how many times I see a mother of 4 go through the checkout line at the local grocery store and use a food stamp debit card, then push her groceries into a brand new Lincoln Navigator. really? You can't count how many times you see this happen? Please, the next time you see it, post a picture of it on facebook for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 really? You can't count how many times you see this happen? Please, the next time you see it, post a picture of it on facebook for us. +1 and I live in an area where this sort of thing would seem to happen. And I've never seen it happen. Not once. Not saying it doesn't. Just saying I can't count the number of times either. Because I've never seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 really? You can't count how many times you see this happen? Please, the next time you see it, post a picture of it on facebook for us. Â I certainly will. And if you don't think this is a real scenario, then I'm shocked. Ever hear of section 8 housing? Yeah..you should look into it and its abuses. Section 8 and Welfare go hand in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited)  That was a great read Az, thank you. Az, what do you think of the growth in the Gini coefficent over the last few years?  So economic inequality is likely to cause problems with social Âcohesion — but far more important, it is a symptom of our deeper Âproblem. As the unsustainable high tide of post-war American dominance has slowly ebbed, many — perhaps most — of our country's workers appear unable to compete internationally at the level required to maintain anything like their current standard of living. And a shrinking elite portion of the American population, itself a shrinking fraction of the world Âpopulation, cannot indefinitely maintain our global position. We are between a rock and a hard place. If we reverse the market-based reforms that have allowed us to prosper, we will cede global economic share; but if we let inequality and its underlying causes grow unchecked, we will hollow out the middle class — threatening social cohesion, and eventually surrendering our international position Âanyway. This, and not some world-is-flat happy talk, is what the Âchallenge of globalization means for America. But unfortunately, by a combination of carelessness and design, we appear now to be embracing a counterproductive response to this daunting dilemma. Edited February 24, 2011 by bpwallace49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I certainly will. And if you don't think this is a real scenario, then I'm shocked. Ever hear of section 8 housing? Yeah..you should look into it and its abuses. Section 8 and Welfare go hand in hand. At the risk of speaking on weigie's behalf, I don't think he was implying that it never happens, but rather that it's just not going on so much that you've literally lost track of it. Again, I'll have to start looking harder. I'll have to start following people out to their cars more (which, in and of itself makes you story a bit odd. I mean, first you'd have to be in line with moms with food stamps a whole lot, but you'd also have to make a point of following them out to their car, and then that car would have to be a luxury SUV. Guessing that even 2-3 times would be a pretty impressive number if we were actually talking about things that actually happen as opposed to making a point out of nothing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I wonder how much of this would reduced if we actually did something about our illegal alien population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 At the risk of speaking on weigie's behalf, I don't think he was implying that it never happens, but rather that it's just not going on so much that you've literally lost track of it. Again, I'll have to start looking harder. I'll have to start following people out to their cars more (which, in and of itself makes you story a bit odd. I mean, first you'd have to be in line with moms with food stamps a whole lot, but you'd also have to make a point of following them out to their car, and then that car would have to be a luxury SUV. Guessing that even 2-3 times would be a pretty impressive number if we were actually talking about things that actually happen as opposed to making a point out of nothing). Â Ok so maybe I exaggerated the statement a bit. Good lord am I the only one on these boards that has? I think not At any rate, coming from a very poor family growing up, I can tell you with 100% fact, that the abuse of the Welfare system is rampant. Abuse of Section 8 housing is even worse. These families sublease there units to others for cash, or a family member(s) stay with a Section 8 member who are also on welfare. They have cash paying jobs or sell drugs. There have been cases in MY district where Section 8 units were found to have up to 8 people residing in the unit..all paying rent to the person living there. This can go on for years without detection. And actually, the "welfare recipient with 4 children driving an Escalade" is a rather well known urban legen for you information but I thought it prudent...Wegie just so happened to call it out And while you are following them out to there car, ask them if you can pose with them cause we need new mystery huddler material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Ok so maybe I exaggerated the statement a bit. Good lord am I the only one on these boards that has? I think not At any rate, coming from a very poor family growing up, I can tell you with 100% fact, that the abuse of the Welfare system is rampant. Abuse of Section 8 housing is even worse. These families sublease there units to others for cash, or a family member(s) stay with a Section 8 member who are also on welfare. They have cash paying jobs or sell drugs. There have been cases in MY district where Section 8 units were found to have up to 8 people residing in the unit..all paying rent to the person living there. This can go on for years without detection. And actually, the "welfare recipient with 4 children driving an Escalade" is a rather well known urban legen for you information but I thought it prudent...Wegie just so happened to call it out And while you are following them out to there car, ask them if you can pose with them cause we need new mystery huddler material. I don't think I can be a mystery huddler. Â Yes, I understand it's an urban legend. You do know what that means, right? It's like the coke and pop-rocks thing. Have you lost track of the number of times you've seen someone's stomach explode because they consumed those together? Would you bother making that argument if we were discussing GI tracks rather than the economy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I counted 42 welfare recipients getting into brand new 2011 Cadillac Escalades at Wal-Mart last week alone. 42. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Everyone with half a brain knows our middle class has "migrated" to Asia over the past 25 years now that manufacturing is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I don't think I can be a mystery huddler. Â Yes, I understand it's an urban legend. You do know what that means, right? Â Does that mean I can go into Scotter Woods now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I counted 42 welfare recipients getting into brand new 2011 Cadillac Escalades at Wal-Mart last week alone. 42. Â Those were illegals and it was a Home Depot. Get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Does that mean I can go into Scotter Woods now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Seems you do not like inequality. So what does equality mean to you? Does it mean that everybody has the same amount of stuff? Or does it mean that we all have the same opportunities to do what we want with our lives? Do outcomes need to be the same no matter what effort we put into our lives?  An answer to this would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Az, what do you think of the growth in the Gini coefficent over the last few years? Â I'm a lot more concerned about the values inequality talked about in the linked essay. economic inequality, by itself, doesn't really concern me as long as the stuff SEC was talking about remains in tact. in my view, inequality does not equal injustice, so long as opportunity abounds. but when I consider the marriage and parenting stats I quoted, and consider our public school situation -- yeah, I am officially concerned about inequality. Â the big problem, as I see it, is that government efforts to reduce economic inequality almost invariably just end up incentivizing behavior that exacerbates the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyman Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 An answer to this would be great. BP will not answer you. He is not about that. He has been asked numerous times to answer questions in the thread he created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 An answer to this would be great. Can I take a shot? Â I would think it's sort of a cop-out to assume that anyone who is alarmed by the ever increasing gap between rich and poor wants everyone to end up with exactly as much as the next guy despite what he puts into it. Â Is it not a rather common sign that things are about to get really ugly somewhere that the gap starts widening. Is that not one thing that basically every third world nation has in common? Â So, I think that one could still value work-ethic and the rewards that come with it and still realize that everyone benefits from a society where the bottom rungs are not destitute and the top rungs are needlessly wealthy. That basically everyone's quality of life is improved if the gap is not so huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Seems you do not like inequality. So what does equality mean to you? Does it mean that everybody has the same amount of stuff? Or does it mean that we all have the same opportunities to do what we want with our lives? Do outcomes need to be the same no matter what effort we put into our lives?  Why does it matter what equality means to me? I just posted some links that provide data from many many sources showing how the gap between rich and poor has been growing larger and larger. Pretty sure I didnt editorialize on the subject, and what I say about equality really has no bearing on the data presented.   What everyone has glossed over is a chart that is extremely telling, IMO. It is the net worth of some of our elected officials. The whole concept of "opportunity" can become clouded over time if the US moves closer to a plutocracy. Also keep in mind that chart has more Democrats than Republicans, so political party doesnt mean crap, the same "class" of people hold the reins.  I asked Az about the Gini co-efficient as the decrease in the estate tax almost perfectly corresponds with a rise in the gini co-efficent, and the people that decide what the estate tax should be all have high net worth and therefore have a vested interest in that situation continuing, if not decreasing the estate tax even further. (but considering how unevenly that can be applied and evaded, that may be more of a paper tiger than anything else. Of course, until the political bullcrap of how grandpappy is going to lose the family farm comes out ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Can I take a shot? Â I'd have preferred you left it to the guy that was asked the question in the first place...but it's a free country. Sort of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Can I take a shot? Â I would think it's sort of a cop-out to assume that anyone who is alarmed by the ever increasing gap between rich and poor wants everyone to end up with exactly as much as the next guy despite what he puts into it. Â Is it not a rather common sign that things are about to get really ugly somewhere that the gap starts widening. Is that not one thing that basically every third world nation has in common? Â So, I think that one could still value work-ethic and the rewards that come with it and still realize that everyone benefits from a society where the bottom rungs are not destitute and the top rungs are needlessly wealthy. That basically everyone's quality of life is improved if the gap is not so huge. Â Do you see a parallel between the growth in size and power of government and the size of this gap? Do you ever ask yourself if that's what's causing the problem? Maybe only the people with money have enough brains/lawyers/influence to really succeed to the degree that the top tier does, and that's why the gap keeps widening. Â Let's regulate some more milk spills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 I did not say he was a commie. Frankly, he has earned this thrashing due to his continued biased posts. He did not post this for the reason you implied. I have given him three opportunities to explain why he posted this and also what he thinks might solve the problem. But of course he does not answer because he cant. He is only trying to drive the wedge deeper here on this board. Â Â Zeke I do love when you pop up in threads. It always brightens my day. Â Keep up the good work!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 An answer to this would be great. Since you didn't ask the original question I'm guessing you'd be fine if others chime in. The reason I personally wouldn't respond to a nonsensical question such as that is it's pointless. Â Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension):Â attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent's position. Â For example, the claim that "evolution means a dog giving birth to a cat." Â Another example: "Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that." Â On the Internet, it is common to exaggerate the opponent's position so that a comparison can be made between the opponent and Hitler. I would think reasonable people can conclude that "Do outcomes need to be the same no matter what effort we put into our lives?" is leading to a straw man and wouldn't really be worth taking seriously. Â I don't really know much about caddy (or why people call him zeke) but that is my take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I don't really know much about caddy (or why people call him zeke) zeke 1982 was his first name, but had several accounts banned, including that one since and then creates new accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Exactly, I don't know what the solution is other than communism. Why is this gap so large? Does it have anything to do with the cultural state of the country where kids grow up without an intact family and extremely poor values? Â So having moral values made Jesus rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 RICHARD 13 minutes ago  Physical Slavery: Requires the slave owner to feed and house the slaves  Economic Slavery: Requires the slaves to feed and house themselves, plus donate to the cause.  Welcome to modern slavery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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