And the world loves America even less

[WaterMan]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/22/world/davis-....html?hpt=us_c2

[tosberg34]

awww....that's too bad. Maybe Obama can go on another appeasement tour.

 

Obama Appeasement Tour '11.

[matt770]

I don't know all the facts of the case, but I understand Davis was convicted of killing a cop and was put to death for it. I also understand that in some places in Europe, you can blow up a building and go on a shooting rampage and kill 77 people, and the most they can give you is 21 years in prison. Maybe I'll go outside and hold up a sign about how f'd up that is and hope a news van drives by.

[WaterMan]

He said in court that he had not seen Davis in possession of a gun or fire one.[26] No murder weapon – neither the gun owned by Cole nor that said to be owned by Davis – was ever recovered.[27] A ballistics expert testified that the .38 caliber bullet that killed MacPhail could have been fired from the same gun that wounded Cooper at the Cloverdale pool party, though he admitted doubt about this. However, he stated he was confident that .38 casings found at Cloverdale matched one allegedly later found by a homeless man near the scene of MacPhail's shooting.[30][31][32]

 

Basically there seemed to be no hard evidence. Just people testifying then recanting afterwards.

 

And this guy Redd Coles actually admitted to killing the officer, yet Davis was killed for it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_davis#Pr...ebuts_publicity

Edited September 23, 2011 by WaterMan

[Ursa Majoris]

I don't know all the facts of the case, but I understand Davis was convicted of killing a cop and was put to death for it. I also understand that in some places in Europe, you can blow up a building and go on a shooting rampage and kill 77 people, and the most they can give you is 21 years in prison. Maybe I'll go outside and hold up a sign about how f'd up that is and hope a news van drives by.

This. Diehard liberal though I am, it's tough to have much sympathy with a guy who shot a cop who was trying to stop him beating up a homeless man for a beer. Davis is just the latest cause celebre - there are most likely far more deserving cases that should be re-examined.

 

As for the 21 years thing, I understand there are systems in place to hold people pretty much ad infinitum after their notional sentence is up. Release of a 77 times mass murderer would be beyond ridiculous.

[tosberg34]

I don't know all the facts of the case, but I understand Davis was convicted of killing a cop and was put to death for it. I also understand that in some places in Europe, you can blow up a building and go on a shooting rampage and kill 77 people, and the most they can give you is 21 years in prison. Maybe I'll go outside and hold up a sign about how f'd up that is and hope a news van drives by.

 

This. Good post, matt.

[bpwallace49]

Death is kinda final. If there is as much doubt and problems with a case like this one, then why go ahead with the death penalty?

 

I am not against the death penalty specifically, but pushing forward an execution when there is so many problems with the case seems pretty vindictive and stupid.

 

For those that are all for his execution, do you believe that the judicial system is 100% infalliable and that OJ Simpson is also innocent?

[DMD]

Basically there seemed to be no hard evidence. Just people testifying then recanting afterwards.

 

And this guy Redd Coles actually admitted to killing the officer, yet Davis was killed for it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_davis#Pr...ebuts_publicity

 

No doubt the wikipedia entry was written by his lawyers.

 

I read elsewhere that there were nine people brought to trial as witnesses but that there were actually 22 people that saw it happen. They just did not bring them all to the trial. I also read that the searched Davis home and found the dead guy's blood on his clothing in the washing machine but that it was not submitted as evidence because it was collected without a warrant. Of all the causes that celebs like to join, covering for a murdered guy is the most surprising.

[Clubfoothead]

The death penalty as a matter of public policy is wrong. The fact that certain people deserve to die for their crimes does not change that.

[bpwallace49]

..2 NC men walk free after murder exoneration

By MITCH WEISS -

 

ASHEVILLE, N.C. (AP) — Two North Carolina men walked free Thursday when a panel of judges ruled they didn't kill a man during a home invasion despite their guilty pleas a decade earlier.

 

Kenneth Kagonyera and Robert Wilcoxson said they felt pressure to plead guilty to second-degree murder for the shooting of Walter Bowman so they wouldn't have to face the death penalty or life in prison. A later confession by a prisoner led to DNA testing that excluded five men, including Kagonyera and Wilcoxson, who served time for the crime.

 

"It's been a long time," said the 32-year-old Wilcoxson, who embraced his daughter and father as he walked out of a county lockup after 11 years behind bars.

 

The case was heard by the judges after intervention by the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission — the country's only state agency dedicated to investigating claims of innocence.

 

"This is a moment we've been waiting for 11 years," said Wilcoxson's mother, Rhonden Finch. "He hasn't been able to sit down and eat breakfast with his daughter. So much has changed in 11 years. So much has changed. He's missed birthdays, graduations. This is a time to celebrate."

 

The judges announced their decision in Asheville following over a week of testimony.

 

"It was a blessing. I'm very grateful," said Kagonyera, 31, as he left the lockup walking arm-in-arm with his mother and grandmother.

 

The release comes a day after Troy Davis was executed in Georgia, despite his insistence that he was innocent of killing a policeman in 1989. Prosecutors stood by his guilt and several courts upheld his conviction.

 

"I think it's interesting that this exoneration comes the day after the Troy Davis execution in Georgia," said Mary Pollard, director of North Carolina Prisoner Legal Services. "We're lucky to live in a state that, like any human system, admits we're not perfect here and we provide avenues for folks to get relief if they were wrongly convicted."

 

Bowman was killed when several gunmen wearing bandanas over their faces stormed into his house. Three other people were in the home during the botched robbery and during the chaos, someone fired a shot that killed Bowman. The robbers fled.

 

Kagonyera and Wilcoxson were among six men charged. Five pleaded guilty to various charges related to Bowman's death and the case was dropped against the sixth man. The other three men served time and were released before Kagonyera and Wilcoxson.

 

Although Wilcoxson had no prior criminal record, Kagonyera had faced charges in the past including assault with a deadly weapon. But the arrests turned out to be cases of mistaken identity, as a man who later confessed to the crime had not been among those convicted of it.

 

Kagonyera testified to the panel that he felt pressured by his attorney and family members to accept a plea bargain in order to avoid a possible death sentence. Wilcoxson feared a life sentence that would prevent him from ever seeing his daughter again.

 

In 2003, federal prisoner Robert Rutherford confessed to the crime and named two different people who were part of the home invasion. DNA was found on the bandanna of one of the people Rutherford named as a suspect, but that evidence excluded any of the five men who had been convicted in connection with the murder and home invasion.

 

Wilcoxson's father, Robert Wilcoxson-Bey, said he never doubted his son was innocent.

 

"Justice is always good when it comes right," he said.

 

Asked what he would do on his first night of freedom, Wilcoxson said, "Pray."

 

He then walked away with his attorney without answering any other questions. His family said they would gather somewhere and celebrate the decision.

 

"I'm just so happy. I gave it to God and put it in his hands," said Charlene Holmes, Kagonyera's mother, who cried when the verdict was read. "I can't wait for him to come home."

 

Dea Johnson, Wilcoxson's ex-girlfriend and mother of his daughter, said her daughter, Taneea, could now see her father as a free man for the first time.

 

"I just want him to see his baby," she said. "This is his pride and joy. This is what he fought for."

 

The innocence commission has heard three other cases, one of which resulted in the release of a man who served almost 17 years in prison for a murder he didn't commit. A three-judge panel found Greg Taylor innocent in February 2010.

 

Messages left with the Buncombe County District Attorney's Office were not immediately returned Thursday. No one responded to knocks at the door of the office in the county courthouse.

 

"I'm just so excited. My son is coming home. It's just overwhelming," Wilcoxson-Bey said. "It's been a long, long road. He claimed he was innocent from the beginning, but nobody believed him. Nobody but his family."

 

___

 

Associated Press writer Martha Waggoner contributed to this report from Raleigh.

..

[SEC=UGA]

Death is kinda final. If there is as much doubt and problems with a case like this one, then why go ahead with the death penalty?

 

I am not against the death penalty specifically, but pushing forward an execution when there is so many problems with the case seems pretty vindictive and stupid.

 

For those that are all for his execution, do you believe that the judicial system is 100% infalliable and that OJ Simpson is also innocent?

 

There is no way that the judicial system get's these things 100% correct and I have NO DOUBTS that innocent people have been executed.

 

That said, Troy Davis committed these murders in 1989, I believe, and has had appeals. His case has been reviewed by the GA board of pardons and paroles and the SCOTUS. All of these mechanisms failed to overturn the ruling and all agreed that the state of GA handled the case properly.

[bpwallace49]

There is no way that the judicial system get's these things 100% correct and I have NO DOUBTS that innocent people have been executed.

 

That said, Troy Davis committed these murders in 1989, I believe, and has had appeals. His case has been reviewed by the GA board of pardons and paroles and the SCOTUS. All of these mechanisms failed to overturn the ruling and all agreed that the state of GA handled the case properly.

 

 

? handled properly? i wasnt under the impression that there was a case for mistrial due to procedural problems. I thought the SCOTUS didnt take the case based on lack of jurstiction rather than the merits of the case itself.

 

But I am quite sure that the GA board of pardons is quite infallable, so I am sure that puts any doubts to rest.

 

There also was some talk that if it was postponed again that it would have been considered "cruel and unusual punishemnt" for mental torture for coming to the threshold of execution multiple times.

 

Oh well . . .. not much can be done now

[Ursa Majoris]

There also was some talk that if it was postponed again that it would have been considered "cruel and unusual punishemnt" for mental torture for coming to the threshold of execution multiple times.

Leaving aside the merits and demerits of the case, that's a fatuous argument. Any delays were entirely the work of the defense, so it is completely illogical to say that they were "punishment" in any form. Those are self-inflicted.

[BeeR]

For those that are all for his execution, do you believe that the judicial system is 100% infalliable and that OJ Simpson is also innocent?

So if a system isn't infallible, it should be scrapped? What infallible system do you instead propose?

 

PS OJ shoulda been whacked a long time ago (but wasn't thanks to the almighty race card), though I don't see the relevance to your position against the death penalty.

 

Re the article, lol @ the "global movement to end the death penalty." Seems to me plenty of places remain around the globe that still have no problem with this and/or much worse. This guy got his say in a court of law, had appeals, etc etc etc. How many thousands/millions of people - guilty of no crime or simply accused with little if any proof (etc etc) are murdered, tortured etc routinely all over the world? Wouldn't it make a bit more sense to focus the outrage there? Or is this just another excuse for other countries - most of whom could and would easily be swallowed up by hostiles without us around - to tinkle in our cheerios?

Edited September 23, 2011 by BeeR

[Savage Beatings]

The death penalty as a matter of public policy is wrong. The fact that certain people deserve to die for their crimes does not change that.

 

 

I agree with Club. Gross. :shivers:

[Azazello1313]

The death penalty as a matter of public policy is wrong. The fact that certain people deserve to die for their crimes does not change that.

 

completely agreed.

[CowboyGal2011]

There was a .38 caliber gun. Both Troy Davis and the man Davis’s team claims in the real murderer, Sylvester Coles, had a .38 caliber gun.

 

Davis’s gun had been used in another shooting and the gun casing were linked between both shootings.

 

In the laundry they found Troy Davis’s shorts from that night with evidence on the clothing directly tying him to Officer MacPhail’s murder — Officer MacPhail’s blood.

Davis admitted to Collins that Davis had shot MacPhail in the chest and then went back to shoot MacPhail in the head at close range because MacPhail had seen his face — hence MacPhail’s blood on Davis’s shorts. Oh, and at the time Collins gave his statement way back in 1989 it was not public knowledge that Officer MacPhail had been shot in the chest and then at close range in the face.

[bpwallace49]

So if a system isn't infallible, it should be scrapped? What infallible system do you instead propose?

 

PS OJ shoulda been whacked a long time ago (but wasn't thanks to the almighty race card), though I don't see the relevance to your position against the death penalty.

 

Re the article, lol @ the "global movement to end the death penalty." Seems to me plenty of places remain around the globe that still have no problem with this and/or much worse. This guy got his say in a court of law, had appeals, etc etc etc. How many thousands/millions of people - guilty of no crime or simply accused with little if any proof (etc etc) are murdered, tortured etc routinely all over the world? Wouldn't it make a bit more sense to focus the outrage there? Or is this just another excuse for other countries - most of whom could and would easily be swallowed up by hostiles without us around - to tinkle in our cheerios?

 

I really dont give a crap about other countries in this instance. There is no relevance. The state of Georgia did this execution. BTW, I in no way say his is innocent vs guilty, I dont have enough detail on the case. But with as many ? in this, death seems kinda severe, IMO, without beyond a shadow of a doubt proof provided.

 

The death penalty as a matter of public policy is wrong. The fact that certain people deserve to die for their crimes does not change that.

Well said club . . . .

[Azazello1313]

in general, I am a critic of government, and in particular, of what I see as the unwarranted faith some people have in the government to fix problems and do things right without destroying liberty in favor of the will to coercive power.

 

of all the high examples of the misplaced arrogance a government and its apologists can have, attaching the ultimate, irrevocable sentence to its obviously fallible judgments has to be the highest.

[Caveman_Nick]

 

Waterman even hooked DMD.

 

[Ursa Majoris]

in general, I am a critic of government, and in particular, of what I see as the unwarranted faith some people have in the government to fix problems and do things right without destroying liberty in favor of the will to coercive power.

 

of all the high examples of the misplaced arrogance a government and its apologists can have, attaching the ultimate, irrevocable sentence to its obviously fallible judgments has to be the highest.

Apart from it not being government per se. Bear in mind that the verdict isn't delivered by the government, it's delivered by 12 people.

[Azazello1313]

Apart from it not being government per se. Bear in mind that the verdict isn't delivered by the government, it's delivered by 12 people.

 

don't buy that for a second, and I'm a lot closer to the process than most. your excuse making is like pilate washing his hands. the government investigates, the government prosecutes, the government determines what evidence is brought out, what alleged offenses have taken place, what the proscribed sentence is...and of course, the government imposes and executes that sentence. the jury of 12 (chosen by the government) only weighs the evidence the government allows it to hear and determines whether particular factual allegations are true according to the standard of proof given to them by the government.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Azazello1313

[Savage Beatings]

Apart from it not being government per se. Bear in mind that the verdict isn't delivered by the government, it's delivered by 12 people.

 

 

The government makes the choce of death available to them though. What if the government made available a sentence of torture or rape?

[Azazello1313]

The government makes the choce of death available to them though.

 

not just available, but required under the law when certain factual conditions are met.

[Trojanmojo]

The death penalty as a matter of public policy is wrong. The fact that certain people deserve to die for their crimes does not change that.

 

I'm with you on this. Would love to see it abolished.