irish

Vaxxed or unvaxxed?

Recommended Posts

This thread isn't to start a fight or argument (although, that's likely what will happen).  

 

I'm curious, if you're not vaxxed, other then the line, "Because it's my body and no one is gonna force me to do anything I don't want to," why haven't you really gotten the vaccinations?  What really holds you back?  Concern about future, unforseen complications or implications?  Just headstrong?  Don't trust the science or lack thereof?  Don't trust the short range trials?

Edited by irish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Let me know when you find a study for the vax.

Or are you afraid of the truth that there isn't one and we'll never have facts about whether it was effective and/or safe?

Like I mentioned, whether it be Fauci, other medical professionals, or my neighbor who's a doctor in the field, I've heard enough from them to feel safe in getting vaxxed and having my kids be as well. And honestly, I'm being too lazy or just too busy right now to even search for the info you're asking for. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LordOpie said:

Fair enough.

Hope you don't get ADEs.

Me either, I'll check it out. Thx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Fair enough.

Hope you don't get ADEs.

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/91648

 

ADE a Non-Issue With COVID Vaccines

Scientists say that ADE is pretty much a non-issue with COVID-19 vaccines, but what are they basing this on?

 

From the early stages of COVID-19 vaccine development, scientists sought to target a SARS-CoV-2 protein that was least likely to cause ADE. For example, when they found out that targeting the nucleoprotein of SARS-CoV-2 might cause ADE, they quickly abandoned that approach. The safest route seemed to be targeting the S2 subunit of the spike protein, and they ran with that, wrote Derek Lowe, PhD, in his Science Translational Medicine blog "In the Pipeline."

Scientists designed animal studies to look for ADE. They looked for it in human trials, and they've been looking for it in the real-world data for COVID-19 vaccines with emergency use authorization. So far, they haven't seen signs of it. In fact, the opposite is happening, Lowe noted.

"[W]hat seems to be beyond doubt is that the vaccinated subjects, over and over, show up with no severe coronavirus cases and no hospitalizations. That is the opposite of what you would expect if ADE were happening," he wrote.

 

Furthermore, ADE is an acute problem, and it can be very dramatic. If it was an issue with these vaccines, we would have spotted it by now, said Brian Lichty, PhD, an associate professor in pathology and molecular medicine at McMaster University in Toronto.

"It'll kill you quickly. In all the places I'm aware of ADE happening, it is an acute, mostly cytokine-driven event," he told MedPage Today.

The one exception may be an inactivated whole-cell, or "killed," vaccine developed by China. That vaccine uses alum, the same adjuvant that was used in the measles and RSV vaccines that caused ADE in the 1960s. The Chinese inactivated whole-cell vaccine could "conceivably" generate ADE like those older vaccines, according to Bloom.

"I don't think that vaccine is ever going to see the light of day in the U.S., and it may not even be worth mentioning. There have been no actual cases of ADE with the Chinese whole-cell killed vaccine, or if so, it hasn't been reported," he said.

 

What About Variants?

Current COVID-19 vaccines were developed to protect against the original strain of SARS-CoV-2 that became dominant worldwide. As more variants arise, scientists have raised questions about whether one of these could become different enough to cause ADE. So far, that concern seems to be hypothetical, according to Lichty.

"To date, there's really no evidence of ADE with the COVID-19 vaccines. It's all theoretical," he said. "I think all the evidence so far is that ADE is not turning out to be a problem with any existing vaccines or viral variants."

One reason could be that SARS-CoV-2 just may not affect macrophages in a way that can produce ADE, although scientists are still working out the details. ADE has been reported after natural infection with other viruses, such as HIV, Ebola, and coxsackievirus, as well as other coronaviruses like SARS and MERS.

Throughout the pandemic, scientists have been looking for ADE associated with SARS-CoV-2, but so far they haven't found any cases of it, noted Lichty.

 

"This coronavirus may already be sufficiently adapted to humans, so that if it does get into macrophages via a non-neutralizing antibody interaction, it may not allow the macrophage to produce enough cytokine to cause an obvious pathology," he said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Thank you but i wasn't asking you to prove or disprove anything regarding ADE.

I was suggesting that you learn about it, symptoms and treatments.

Just pretend it is possible and change your thought process from argument to therapeutics.

IF you get it, how will you know? What will you do about it? 

 

True but just glad to hear it's pretty much a non-issue. Which then leads me back to, why don't more people get vaccinated?  I really want to know why people think they know more than the professionals? 

 

Do you believe that, even with people still being able to catch and pass covid being vaccinated, that by everyone being vaccinating, people will tax the Healthcare system less, less will die, less will experience severe symptoms and in general we as a country and world would be better off?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two questions for you Irish:

 

1. Do you think it's even possible to get to the level of vaccinations needed to end Covid? And I'm not talking about just in the US, I'm talking worldwide.

2. If you don't think number one is possible and we keep having to deal with variants, then what is the end game?

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

Two questions for you Irish:

 

1. Do you think it's even possible to get to the level of vaccinations needed to end Covid? And I'm not talking about just in the US, I'm talking worldwide.

2. If you don't think number one is possible and we keep having to deal with variants, then what is the end game?

 

 

1. Worldwide, unfortunately, I'm leery of that being able to happen. In the US, I think it could certainly happen. I just hate that because this country is so polarized (Trump didn't help that), that mask wearing, vaccinations, etc. have become so political. I absolutely think getting the vaccination to as many people as we can, will have the most positive outcome. 

 

2. Unfortunately, I believe there is no end game and rather a diluted continuous run of Covid, similar to that of the yearly flu issues. Many will get vaccinated/a booster, many will be helped, many will still get the flu, and unfortunately on average 30,000-40,000 will die, with bad years topping 60k+.  That's how I eventually see Covid and all the variants playing out.

Edited by irish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, LordOpie said:
  1. Population reduction, or
  2. Greed... Cdc owns patents and earned over $4Billion on covid,so far, alone... Or
  3. gov agencies are run by people who want to do the right thing, but people are human and humans make mistakes.
  4. Any other possibilities?

It helps in a discussion if you try to stay out of the weeds. While I agree that some people are making money off this whole thing, there's not a lot of evidence of any actual conspiracy & to use that as an argument only discredits yourself in certain eyes, mainly those that you theoretically you are trying to convince.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, irish said:

 

1. Worldwide, unfortunately, I'm leery of that being able to happen. In the US, I think it could certainly happen. I just hate that because this country is so polarized (Trump didn't help that), that mask wearing, vaccinations, etc. have become so political. I absolutely think getting the vaccination to as many people as we can, will have the most positive outcome. 

How about we keep political figures' names out of this. Trump didn't create Coronavirus, nor do I think he ever had foul intentions in our approach to it. There's plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle, both in our political & social environment as well as the response or lack thereof to the pandemic.

 

So, in response to your answer, even if it could happen in the US then what does that even matter if we will just keep getting variants coming in from other countries? I'm not saying that we should drop the vaccine, I'm just saying that it's likely not going to be the avenue that gets us past this and expecting/treating like it could be may hurt more than it helps in terms of the pursuit of additional options and/or treatments.

2. Unfortunately, I believe there is no end game and rather a diluted continuous run of Covid, similar to that of the yearly flu issues. Many will get vaccinated/a booster, many will be helped, many will still get the flu, and unfortunately on average 30,000-40,000 will die, with bad years topping 60k+.  That's how I eventually see Covid and all the variants playing out.

Unfortunately I see it that way as well. Endless years of booster shots, similar to flu shots until hopefully a cure or treatment can be found to really mitigate the impact.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

There is, but there is a conflict between therapeutics and EUA vax... Both cannot, legally speaking, exist at the same time.

I'm not following. How can a vaccine and therapeutic treatment not legally exist at the same time? We have a flu vaccine as well as therapeutic treatment,  how is Covid different?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rajncajn said:

Two questions for you Irish:

 

1. Do you think it's even possible to get to the level of vaccinations needed to end Covid? And I'm not talking about just in the US, I'm talking worldwide.

2. If you don't think number one is possible and we keep having to deal with variants, then what is the end game?

 

 

Absolutely not. They are working on a 3rd shot for the MRNA folks. Three will turn into 4, 5, 6, etc. They don't know a dam thing about this excerpt that these vaccines are making a lot of people rich 💰💰💰💰. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rajncajn said:

I'm not following. How can a vaccine and therapeutic treatment not legally exist at the same time? We have a flu vaccine as well as therapeutic treatment,  how is Covid different?

 

Ivermectin?? Doctor's are told not to prescribe it for Covid yet it's doing wonders. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

EUA... Fda cannot issue an emergency authorization when legit therapies exist. If those therapies were studied and proven effective then the fda could not issue a eua.

Those studies for existing therapies only need to explore effectiveness, which could happen in months, instead of years (covid vax), since those medications are already fda approved for safety.

Flu vax is fda approved, so can co-exist.

Not denying what you're saying, but do you have a link that states that?  I'd really like to read the details. 

Edited by rajncajn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LordOpie said:

Pfizer already made $35+Billion.

Moderna had never successfully brought any medical anything to market, but they were able to bring a vax in record time?

 

Go figure 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Pfizer already made $35+Billion.

Moderna had never successfully brought any medical anything to market, but they were able to bring a vax in record time?

 

So happy that I invested in them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Is that why you push the vax?

 

 

;)

Was waiting for this response. Lol

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

Ivermectin?? Doctor's are told not to prescribe it for Covid yet it's doing wonders. 

I was just reading an article about ivermectin and it was saying the issue with it is that it has to be administered intravenously in order get the right dosages and it only works for mild to mid range cases, so that would mean everyone who tests positive would need to be admitted in order for it to make any real impact. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

I was just reading an article about ivermectin and it was saying the issue with it is that it has to be administered intravenously in order get the right dosages and it only works for mild to mid range cases, so that would mean everyone who tests positive would need to be admitted in order for it to make any real impact. 

 

It sure as hell worked wonders for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, League_Champion said:

 

It sure as hell worked wonders for me. 

Did they give it to you in an IV?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, League_Champion said:

No, pills 

This is from Merck, the producer of Ivermectin:

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies; 

No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and; 

A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.

Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com

 

Now, that's not to say that at some point they do find that it's beneficial and it's not to say that it didn't help you. It's just the evidence suggests that it's not coming from the people who would benefit the most financially from it's use. I can't really say that I trust any pharm company, because I absolutely don't. However, I can't discount or discredit the information based on my feelings and if offered the medication as a treatment (if I was at the point where I would need such a treatment) I would certainly try it. But then I don't fully trust the vaccine either, yet I've taken that too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

They are not allowed to say it works

Take off the tin foil hat and think about that. It would be in their best interest to confirm effectiveness.

Also, it's one of the safest medicines. It's been tested and used for decades. It's on WHO's list of most important meds.

Safe, tested and used for other treatments and WHO's important list doesn't equate to effectiveness against Covid. Aspirin is deemed safe, tested & used for decades and #3 on WHO's list of most important medicines and the only thing it might do is help with your headache, though I doubt very much. That doesn't mean that aspirin is an effective treatment. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, LordOpie said:

Thing is... They don't know. They're guessing. They have to be since there was no clinic trial.

 

Here's a six minute video of an MD with a different opinion. 

rumble.com/vkwcb4-dr-dan-stock-specialist-in-immunology-and-inflammation-says-cdc-and-nih-is-.html

 

Millions of people have already taken the vaccines with little to no side effects. I’d much rather take the vaccine than make a political statement and die from covid but to each their own I guess.


 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.